EV vs PHEV - we spend 99% of our time in and around Dublin

unkel · 04-06-2020 12:53am

I was only messin'

If I did a return day trip from Cork to Dublin (with zero chance of destination charging in Dublin) nearly once a month, I'd want a long range EV. One that would only need one stop for the whole return trip. Someone just bought a 2019 Kona 64kWh for €30k privately. That would be a prime candidate if the size is not an issue (as in max 2 kids)

Lantus · 04-06-2020 8:40am

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Yep not buying a 19 when it's the same/very close for a 202.

Compared to 208 it's better value. Prices were just a quick check on line.

Stock levels are low as factories have been shut. There are already car shortages in the US where popular makes are close to running out until manufacturing ramps up again. I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a great deal when demand is increasing as supply is at an all time low.

ELM327 · 04-06-2020 9:05am

unkel wrote: »

I was only messin'

If I did a return day trip from Cork to Dublin (with zero chance of destination charging in Dublin) nearly once a month, I'd want a long range EV. One that would only need one stop for the whole return trip. Someone just bought a 2019 Kona 64kWh for €30k privately. That would be a prime candidate if the size is not an issue (as in max 2 kids)

..with no legs

KCross · 04-06-2020 2:44pm

unkel wrote: »

If I did a return day trip from Cork to Dublin (with zero chance of destination charging in Dublin) nearly once a month, I'd want a long range EV.

I would too but I'm not paying €40k-€50k for it!

unkel wrote: »

One that would only need one stop for the whole return trip.

I'm willing to have one short stop each way because I would normally do that anyway, so I dont see it as a compromise as long as the stop doesnt have to be 40-60mins. 15-20mins is acceptable to me. YMMV.

unkel wrote: »

Someone just bought a 2019 Kona 64kWh for €30k privately. That would be a prime candidate if the size is not an issue (as in max 2 kids)

Kona would be out as we are a family of 5, but eNiro would do fine. I like the Niro but not paying €40k for it.

Black_Knight · 04-06-2020 4:06pm

Kramer wrote: »

Why would you need to stop twice? Isn't it approx. 260km?
Surely, setting out with a fully charged Ioniq, just one 15 minute stop would suffice?

You should check your Ioniq's tyre pressures - you must have terrible efficiency .

To be fair, I did this trip in November, 120 all the way, and it started raining about half way. Also my first time driving that road in an EV so I was cautious. Also, I wasn't destination charging, it was an IKEA run.

ELM327 · 04-06-2020 4:13pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

2 stops at 120km/hr in an Ioniq 28 Cork-Dublin, unless you're brave/stupid.

No, no it's not.

In the EV rally in 2018 I did 120km/h GPS speed from Dublin to cork with one stop at cashel. Reached the cork fast charger with ~40% remaining.
There was no Ionity then either. You could do it with one ~25 min stop now.

unkel · 04-06-2020 5:22pm

Might be harder doing the trip from Cork, because of less suitable charging locations?

Black_Knight · 04-06-2020 10:15pm

unkel wrote: »

Might be harder doing the trip from Cork, because of less suitable charging locations?

To be fair, I stopped in cashel because 1. I didn't know/wasn't familiar with the charge points beyond that 2. it has redundancy with ESB. Urlingford would be my ideal stop, but... point 1 above, and I wasn't confident of making it to ballacolla in the event urlingford was not working. Certainly not with rain.

Kramer · 04-06-2020 11:41pm

I reckon it's doable without stopping at all in the Ioniq - well, my GOM says so anyway.

Probably not at 120 though, maybe Leafspeed?

unkel · 05-06-2020 9:13am

Yeah, I was interested in this when I first got the car and so were many other owners in other countries too, on one site the admin compiled a list of reported mileages done by the owners and it showed that in good circumstances, Ioniq can do 250km at 90km/h. LeafSpeed is a bit below that

ELM327 · 05-06-2020 9:50am

unkel wrote: »

Might be harder doing the trip from Cork, because of less suitable charging locations?

No, Cashel is perfectly set for it. You could also stop at Kill north Ionity when it comes online but Frankfield to Cashel to Lucan is easily doable with one stop en route.

Source : 2018 IEVOA rally!

ELM327 · 05-06-2020 10:26am

Actually I'd love to try the no stop approach if I was doing it again. I went for the opposite, super fast all the way and one stop.

I mean, it's no challenge in a Tesla or other long range EV. But with only 28kWh on board it's super challenging, requiring 103wh/km

Black_Knight · 05-06-2020 10:53am

ELM327 wrote: »

Actually I'd love to try the no stop approach if I was doing it again. I went for the opposite, super fast all the way and one stop.

I mean, it's no challenge in a Tesla or other long range EV. But with only 28kWh on board it's super challenging, requiring 103wh/km

I only know 1 speed. The limit. I find working out the time difference of driving slower with no stop in my head passes the time too.

I was going Cork to IKEA, so a stop in Lucan would imply 2 stops for me. Also, no destination charging (thanks IKEA).

Sheep Shagger · 05-06-2020 10:56pm

So back in to see the e208 tomorrow.

Think we're just about to pull the trigger over the leaf.

On the home charger, Peoguot recommend and have a deal with an installer of the 'wall box'. Anyone have any knowledge of these (looked the website and looks ok).

Have read that Zappi is another good brand...

Ideally would like to hook up the charger to the solar panels we have on the roof of the house, again has anyone experience in getting a new EV charger installed when connected to solar panels?

KCross · 05-06-2020 11:04pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Ideally would like to hook up the charger to the solar panels we have on the roof of the house, again has anyone experience in getting a new EV charger installed when connected to solar panels?

There isnt any "connection" to the Solar panels as such. The Zappi (and presume others are the same) just has the ability to sense when there is excess electricity (i.e. electricity flowing to the grid) via a CT clamp that clamps around your mains feed and it will then auto divert that excess to the car if its plugged in.

It isnt connected to the panels themselves.

Gumbo · 06-06-2020 12:01am

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

So back in to see the e208 tomorrow.

Think we're just about to pull the trigger over the leaf.

On the home charger, Peoguot recommend and have a deal with an installer of the 'wall box'. Anyone have any knowledge of these (looked the website and looks ok).

Have read that Zappi is another good brand...

Ideally would like to hook up the charger to the solar panels we have on the roof of the house, again has anyone experience in getting a new EV charger installed when connected to solar panels?

Solar PV on roof.
PV sends power generated down through the invertor and into your fuse board.
Power goes to whatever is pulling power in the house.

My eddi (same company as zappi) senses that my house is not using all the power generated so it diverts it to the immersion, this heating my water.

If I had a zappi, the same sensor wouldn’t divert that power to the car and thus charge your car for free.

Black_Knight · 06-06-2020 6:14am

Sheep wrote:

On the home charger, Peoguot recommend and have a deal with an installer of the 'wall box'. Anyone have any knowledge of these (looked the website and looks ok).

Never mind Peugeot. Get whatever charge point you want, and it seems like you want to get a zappi due to the PV you have. Costly, but with PV you'd be a bit foolish not to

Wall box is a grand no frills charge point.

championc · 06-06-2020 9:57am

Zappi is the only charger which works in combination with Solar PV. It can charge the car once your excess Solar power exceeds 1.4kw. So ideally, you'll need a PV Array of at least 3kw.

Obviously, it also works as a normal charger too, using it's many modes.

Sheep Shagger · 06-06-2020 11:29am

Black_Knight wrote: »

Never mind Peugeot. Get whatever charge point you want, and it seems like you want to get a zappi due to the PV you have. Costly, but with PV you'd be a bit foolish not to

Wall box is a grand no frills charge point.

Thanks, the dealer is quoting €770 for the smart wallbox, supplied. About €120 more than the 'non smart' version.

Then €600 for fitting (that you get back via the grant).

Is this the sort of thing and price I should be looking at?

https://ecarinfra.ie/collections/ev-at-home/products/zappi-v2-solar-connected

liamog · 06-06-2020 3:37pm

championc wrote: »

Zappi is the only charger which works in combination with Solar PV. It can charge the car once your excess Solar power exceeds 1.4kw. So ideally, you'll need a PV Array of at least 3kw.

There are others in the market now, but Zappi were the pioneer and seem to have a good reputation. Rolec for instance now do one, but I've not seen any reviews yet

https://megaev.co.uk/product/rolec-wallpod-solar-charge-evcs2140-type-2-32a-tethered-charger/

Sheep Shagger · 06-06-2020 4:02pm

Thanks folks, back from a second test drive, the home charger they have in the bundle is actually a 'EVBox' brand at €1350 before the grant (for the smart model). Seems on the steep side from what I have read here and can see online for supply and install.

I'm wondering if our 4 solar panels in the roof (south facing) will generate enough power to heat our water (which is all it does I think) plus charge a car.

We might just get a normal charger after all. Will keep on researching but thanks as always for the tips.

Re tethered vs non tethered, think we'll go non tethered (a bit tidier).

Finally am I right in thinking most other cars should be able to use the home charger (with their own cords). One family member has a Kia and we'll have a Puegeot. Also if we switched car brands later on we would not have to get a new charger? (we won't be in the Tesla market anytime soon!)

KCross · 06-06-2020 4:11pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Thanks folks, I'm wondering if our 4 solar panels in the roof (south facing) will generate enough power to heat our water (which is all it does I think) plus charge a car.

We might just get a normal charger after all. Will keep on researching but thanks as always for the tips.

Re tethered vs non tethered, think we'll go non tethered (a bit tidier).

Finally am I right in thinking most other cars should be able to use the home charger (with their own cords). One family member has a Kia and we'll have a Puegeot. Also if we switched car brands later on we would not have to get a new charger? (we won't be in the Tesla market anytime soon!)

With only 4 panels it’s not worth it unless you want to future proof it and plan to put up more panels later.

Untethered might be neater but it’s alot more hassle if you need to charge the car everyday. If you do small mileage and only charge once or twice a week them maybe it’s ok but generally tethered is the way to go. Each to their own though.

And all new EVs will be compatible with a tethered charge point. They are all type 2 now so no new charge point required later when you change car. The old leaf and outlander are the few that would not work. Not worth considering really.

Black_Knight · 06-06-2020 4:48pm

Price for that charge point is steep. That's zappi money, and zappi does more. Agree with KCross about the lack of panels, and about futureproofing.

I charge about twice a week or less. I went untethered because I wanted a long cable. Kinda regret it now. Long cable is needed, but 1. charging is moderately inconvenient (open boot, unravel, plug into car, plug into charge point, close boot - more frustrating when I've preheated the car and I'm unplugging) 2. I had to buy this extra long cable, 3. Tethered would of been tidier when charging.

championc · 06-06-2020 5:00pm

Assuming your panels are 300w each at best, your max generation is likely to be around 1kw - 1.1kw at solar noon, so it's a non-starter.

To be perfectly honest, 4 is pretty useless. I would be very surprised if you've ever exported any power to the grid. You're not likely to be getting a huge amount into your water (an iBoost ?), so it's not likely to be getting anywhere near close to pay for itself. You should seriously look at installing a total of at least 2.5kw of PV to make it worthwhile.

Pekarirska · 06-06-2020 6:13pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I'm wondering if our 4 solar panels in the roof (south facing) will generate enough power to heat our water (which is all it does I think) plus charge a car.

I have 5 x 300 W PV panels which is enough to get hot water 5 months a year. Solar iBoost diverter.

As others said, forget about diverting excess electricity into a car. There will be no left after a fridge, dishwasher, washing machine and immersion diverter get their share. The car mightn't be there either on a sunny summer day ;-)

Get the cheapest immersion diverter to (pre)heat water and switch electricity provider annually for best savings.

unkel · 06-06-2020 7:27pm

Pekarirska wrote: »

I have 5 x 300 W PV panels which is enough to get hot water 5 months a year. Solar iBoost diverter.

Your hot water cylinder must have a capacity of around 20l

Pekarirska · 06-06-2020 11:32pm

unkel wrote: »

Your hot water cylinder must have a capacity of around 20l

That's a cold shower now ;-)
Btw, 1 kWh only is needed to heat up 20L to 60°C.

unkel · 06-06-2020 11:49pm

Yep, your maths are spot on!

And on a very good day in summer, your system would generate about 10kWh, so if you used all of it for just heating water, that would be more than enough to heat a standard UK / Irish 120l cylinder fully. That is enough water for 1-2 people for one day. And the next day when it rained your hot water would be stone cold

Sheep Shagger · 07-06-2020 5:02pm

KCross wrote: »

With only 4 panels it’s not worth it unless you want to future proof it and plan to put up more panels later.

Untethered might be neater but it’s alot more hassle if you need to charge the car everyday. If you do small mileage and only charge once or twice a week them maybe it’s ok but generally tethered is the way to go. Each to their own though.

And all new EVs will be compatible with a tethered charge point. They are all type 2 now so no new charge point required later when you change car. The old leaf and outlander are the few that would not work. Not worth considering really.

Thanks, works out we actually only have solar panels the roof so will forget about connecting up the EV charger now.

Looking at options for a tethered one now think we'll pass on the EV box version the dealer is quoting €1350 (for supply and fit) before the grant.

Black_Knight · 07-06-2020 5:39pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Thanks, works out we actually only have solar panels the roof so will forget about connecting up the EV charger now.

Looking at options for a tethered one now think we'll pass on the EV box version the dealer is quoting €1350 (for supply and fit) before the grant.

Ask yourself what you want from the charge point (smart phone app? Energy monitor? No frills? Security activated?) and how long a cable you need.

Answer those and the charger thread should be best able to guide you. I wanted some way to monitor kWh used, so I got a rolec with energy monitor module. I enter the kWh into my home automation every time I charge so I've a historical record. Not ideal, but it was the best option available at a decent price point when I was shopping.

EV vs PHEV - we spend 99% of our time in and around Dublin

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