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New HAM First QSO
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SlowBlowin wrote: »Mast is still down (so glad I dropped it), going to leave it down tonight.
This was earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2JVX256r0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCzrxgPxQo
Have a good QSO
All gone for today get that mast back up lad while it's still daylight !
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SlowBlowin wrote: »
This was earlier:
Sweet, it was rumbling around for a while here and some lightning but far enough away, no rain at all. pity, I had high hopes earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2JVX256r0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCzrxgPxQoSlowBlowin wrote: »Have a good QSO
If Shyboy doesn't make it over this way I'll be talking to myself
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Thanks Shyboy for getting on tonight even for a short while.
As I was saying on the wireless, the 49:1 UNUN when operating on non resonant frequencies becomes very inefficient and as a result, your coax starts to resonate causing RF to radiate into the speakers the Girls were listening to, never mess with Teenage Girls and their music as you now know
Operating an EFHW with 49:1 UNUN on a non resonant band will cause RF in the Shack/House, the coax starts to radiate. I experience this with the myantennas.com EFHW on 160m, it's a quarter wave for 160 and should work, it does actually, it gets out on 160m to the U.K no problem but it does cause some RF in the house. The SWR is 16:1 on 160 m also so I'm loosing a tonne of power.
I had a Samsung LED TV with touch sensitive panel and it used to drive the telly bananas and the XYL when I operated on 160m. But I discovered this touch panel had very little shielding against RF so I bought an LG without touch panel and gave the old TV to my Mother.
I also have 2 air filters which have touch sensitive buttons also and it drives them nuts when I operate on 160 m but the other antenna does too but that's because it's very close to the house, my base antenna is further down the garden.
Sometimes even on resonant bands will you get RF in the shack if the antenna is close to the house, my other EFHW causes my voice to come through my XYL headset, she's working from home the last while using my shack desk and it's pretty close to the antenna.
So a solution to your problem would be to get that antenna a half wave on 80m which will keep the UNUN happy and should ensure minimal RF in the shack, you could also add a 20 meter long counterpoise to the coax ground but ideally you'd have to remove the UNUN and connected the antenna wire direct to the centre conductor of the coax and the ground to the 20 meter long counterpoise then to your tuner, you might need an external tuner for that.
The easiest thing to do and the best to work with the UNUN would be to add an extra 20 odd meters, an antenna analyser would be handy to adjust the antenna to make it resonant where you want it. If the resonant frequency is higher than you want then fold back the antenna on itself and try again and repeat until you get it where you want. If it's too low then lengthen it.
+ a good ground should help.
All fun stuff don't ye think ? 0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Thanks Shyboy for getting on tonight even for a short while.
As I was saying on the wireless, the 49:1 UNUN when operating on non resonant frequencies becomes very inefficient and as a result, your coax starts to resonate causing RF to radiate into the speakers the Girls were listening to, never mess with Teenage Girls and their music as you now know
Operating an EFHW with 49:1 UNUN on a non resonant band will cause RF in the Shack/House, the coax starts to radiate. I experience this with the myantennas.com EFHW on 160m, it's a quarter wave for 160 and should work, it does actually, it gets out on 160m to the U.K no problem but it does cause some RF in the house. The SWR is 16:1 on 160 m also so I'm loosing a tonne of power.
I had a Samsung LED TV with touch sensitive panel and it used to drive the telly bananas and the XYL when I operated on 160m. But I discovered this touch panel had very little shielding against RF so I bought an LG without touch panel and gave the old TV to my Mother.
I also have 2 air filters which have touch sensitive buttons also and it drives them nuts when I operate on 160 m but the other antenna does too but that's because it's very close to the house, my base antenna is further down the garden.
Sometimes even on resonant bands will you get RF in the shack if the antenna is close to the house, my other EFHW causes my voice to come through my XYL headset, she's working from home the last while using my shack desk and it's pretty close to the antenna.
So a solution to your problem would be to get that antenna a half wave on 80m which will keep the UNUN happy and should ensure minimal RF in the shack, you could also add a 20 meter long counterpoise to the coax ground but ideally you'd have to remove the UNUN and connected the antenna wire direct to the centre conductor of the coax and the ground to the 20 meter long counterpoise then to your tuner, you might need an external tuner for that.
The easiest thing to do and the best to work with the UNUN would be to add an extra 20 odd meters, an antenna analyser would be handy to adjust the antenna to make it resonant where you want it. If the resonant frequency is higher than you want then fold back the antenna on itself and try again and repeat until you get it where you want. If it's too low then lengthen it.
+ a good ground should help.
All fun stuff don't ye think ?
Yes, sorry again about last night Mad_Lad. Could not believe the one night I am getting through quite strong, that happened...:( I thought I could fob the girls off for half an hour, even telling them it wasn't me...but after they repeated back every word I said via their speaker system, I was had to admit defeat...
Yes, I have to get that antenna resonant on 80m, no other way around it as I don't get the problem on 40m, 20m, etc as the antenna is resonant for these frequencies out of the box.
Also, the ground is needed as well... Oh the joys...but all part of the learning process of Amateur Radio...
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Yes, sorry again about last night Mad_Lad. Could not believe the one night I am getting through quite strong, that happened...:( I thought I could fob the girls off for half an hour, even telling them it wasn't me...but after they repeated back every word I said via their speaker system, I was had to admit defeat...
Yes, I have to get that antenna resonant on 80m, no other way around it as I don't get the problem on 40m, 20m, etc as the antenna is resonant for these frequencies out of the box.
Also, the ground is needed as well... Oh the joys...but all part of the learning process of Amateur Radio...
Yeah all part of the learning curve, it wouldn't be so much fun if it were easy.
How big is your whole property ?, can you draw the layout of your property, house , garden, trees etc ? even draw on a a4 sheet and take a pic. Will give me a good idea what you can do.
An antenna analyser will be handy when adding more wire to that antenna to get it resonant where you want.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »The weeks are flying lads.
QSO tomorrow night ? same time ?
Will try my best to make it this evening, fellas. We have a zoom chat/party kind of thing arranged for 8.30pm with neighbours, so hopefully if that doesn't go on too long, I am straight on the radio after...
I will keep an eye out for the freq this eve. 0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Yeah all part of the learning curve, it wouldn't be so much fun if it were easy.
How big is your whole property ?, can you draw the layout of your property, house , garden, trees etc ? even draw on a a4 sheet and take a pic. Will give me a good idea what you can do.
An antenna analyser will be handy when adding more wire to that antenna to get it resonant where you want.
Here is a layout of our property, it is 1 acre in total. I am terrible at drawing but at least it gives you an idea.
We have much more space on the right side, but no trees. The only trees are behind the house, running along, but there is an electrical cable running just over them. Also, high power electrical cables running almost over the house, but very high up.
The way I have sketched the garage, it looks attached to the house, but is actually a seperate building. I was originally going to use this as the shack (would be ideal) but it has no heating and would be freezing in the winter. I was thinking that if I extend the antenna wire to 40m, I could bring it back to the garage and mount the end there, but it would be a V shape, would that cause a problem with SWR? I have heard of L shape but not a V?0 -
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Sorry Guys, only free just now as the other thing was late starting. Had a flick around but I am sure you guys are tucked up in bed by now...
No bother, there was lots of QRM we had to QSY and then more QRM but that's the way it goes.
1200 Watts of RF would make them move like they make everyone else move
Next week.0 -
I came up with a plan for your new 40 meter long antenna Shyboy
This would be a good place to start and probably your only way because of the power line.
Is that the entire layout of your garden ? it looks smaller than an acre but yours is probably wider, mine is traditional Irish style, long and narrow lol.
I would guess that ESB line is 10Kva and a right pain in the arse having ESB line so close and hopefully it won't emit much noise.
The EFHW 40 meters long usually has a coil to bring the other bands in resonance where needed.
Here's a good PDF on the EFHW.
http://gnarc.org/wp-content/uploads/The-End-Fed-Half-Wave-Antenna.pdf
There'll be some experimenting involved getting the resonance right and that will mean bringing the antenna up and down. If the resonance is lowest say around 3.5 Mhz and you want it around 3.6 or 3.7 Mhz then you need to shorten it, fold it back don't cut it because if you go too far you can't add it back easy.
You'll need an antenna analyser mine is the RigExpert AA-35, it will be essential or borrow one for a weekend.
https://rigexpert.com/products/antenna-analyzers/aa-35-zoom/
Getting rope over tree branches can be a pain, I have a pneumatic antenna launcher that I got from the U.S, it's got a led fishing weight and attached to that is A fishing reel, pump it up with a bicycle pump, release the valve and bang up she goes, then attach the rope to the fishing real and real it in over the branch then tie the antenna on to the rope and pull up the antenna. It really makes the job a lot easier.
You won't have 160 meters with this antenna, I mean it will work but it will be inefficient causing RF in the house like using yours now on 80m.
My antenna gets out well on 160 m despite it's 16:1 SWR at around 1900 Khz, probably the height is helping, get the antenna high as you can.
Ground UNUN at the base of the tree and ground the coax before it enters the shack to help reduce any static build up it picks up from UNUN to shack, keep as much of the coax on the ground or under as you can, helps to act as counterpoise.
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Deleted User wrote: »I came up with a plan for your new 40 meter long antenna Shyboy
This would be a good place to start and probably your only way because of the power line.
Is that the entire layout of your garden ? it looks smaller than an acre but yours is probably wider, mine is traditional Irish style, long and narrow lol.
I would guess that ESB line is 10Kva and a right pain in the arse having ESB line so close and hopefully it won't emit much noise.
The EFHW 40 meters long usually has a coil to bring the other bands in resonance where needed.
Here's a good PDF on the EFHW.
http://gnarc.org/wp-content/uploads/The-End-Fed-Half-Wave-Antenna.pdf
There'll be some experimenting involved getting the resonance right and that will mean bringing the antenna up and down. If the resonance is lowest say around 3.5 Mhz and you want it around 3.6 or 3.7 Mhz then you need to shorten it, fold it back don't cut it because if you go too far you can't add it back easy.
You'll need an antenna analyser mine is the RigExpert AA-35, it will be essential or borrow one for a weekend.
https://rigexpert.com/products/antenna-analyzers/aa-35-zoom/
Getting rope over tree branches can be a pain, I have a pneumatic antenna launcher that I got from the U.S, it's got a led fishing weight and attached to that is A fishing reel, pump it up with a bicycle pump, release the valve and bang up she goes, then attach the rope to the fishing real and real it in over the branch then tie the antenna on to the rope and pull up the antenna. It really makes the job a lot easier.
You won't have 160 meters with this antenna, I mean it will work but it will be inefficient causing RF in the house like using yours now on 80m.
My antenna gets out well on 160 m despite it's 16:1 SWR at around 1900 Khz, probably the height is helping, get the antenna high as you can.
Ground UNUN at the base of the tree and ground the coax before it enters the shack to help reduce any static build up it picks up from UNUN to shack, keep as much of the coax on the ground or under as you can, helps to act as counterpoise.
Cheers Mad_Lad, I really do appreciate you taking the time to do this.
No, sorry, my poor drawing skills (Thank God I didn't become an architect) do not fully reflect the space we have, there is much more space in the garden to the right of the house, nearly twice as much as the left side.
Your idea looks great, but one major thing I didn't put in the drawing is that there is an electricity cable just about those trees running at the back of the house. Actually the ESB come every couple of years to trim the trees as they tend to grow up over the cable.
I believe this is the cable which brings the electricity into the houses, (although ours is underground, but probably still connected up to a transformer on that line somewhere?).
I assume it is too risky to run the wire anywhere near it?0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »The ESB will trim only the branches that are at risk hitting the cables, if you think they are getting close then call them up and they'll cut them. They do this in my Property too.
It looks like a 10 Kva distribution line, you don't want to mess with that, there will be a single phase feed from that to your house via transformer. Which is probably the line you said nearest the trees.
Those 10 Kva lines can emit horrible qrm, there is a pole that the ESB still haven't fixed in the field beside me, I must get on to them.
Anyway, if you feel it's safe and there is a tall tree get a rope somehow over the tallest branch you can find. I got a pneumatic launcher that I put a lead fishing weight in, tie a fishing line to it, pump up and open the valve and it will go up about 100 feet, it's brilliant, saved me so much hassle, I ordered it from the states, you could make something up, go to woodies and buy some pvc pipe, anyway, tie the rope/fishing line to the rope that will hold up your antenna and pull back the fishing reel, then tie the antenna to the rope and pull up.
Take some photos of the trees and the ESB line. You may need to install a pole or mast, though that might effect the antenna.
Hi Mad_Lad,
This is the cable which runs above the tress at the back. Some of the trees are higher than others, the highest ones (just at the very left of the photo) are actually well over the cable again at this point and need another trim.
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Deleted User wrote: »Any chance you could take a pic of the trees you'd be hanging the antenna from ?
Those wires are insulated 240 volt lines.
Going by the diagram, it would have to be one of the trees in this photo, which are not as high.
So, as this overhead cable is insulated, it is safe to run the wire fairly close to it? I always run a mile when I see overhead cables (watched too many Public Information Films when I was a child :eek:)0 -
Going by the diagram, it would have to be one of the trees in this photo, which are not as high.
So, as this overhead cable is insulated, it is safe to run the wire fairly close to it? I always run a mile when I see overhead cables (watched too many Public Information Films when I was a child :eek:)
Unfortunately those are really only bushes and not nearly tall enough. What are the tallest trees you have take pics, pm me if you want, ideally I'd like the see pics of the whole property.
The insulation on those cables is pretty thick, they wouldn't be wrapped around each other if not. I'd be a lot more worried about the other line which could be 10 Kva. You don't want to go near that under any circumstances.
You may want to install a mast of some sort, a 40 foot mast, of some sort, get scaffolding poles but they'd need to be guyed.
Anyway hard to know what you can do without pics of the whole property.0 -
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