Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

jimmycrackcorm · 27-04-2020 09:51AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's in stark contrast to Keelings and Dublin Airport, Germany treating this for what it is......A massive infection risk. No disrespect to any country etc. People from Northern Ireland, UK, US, China are the same. In pandemic everyone external is. It's not stopping the food being picked but it's at least trying to mitigate the risk.

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1254656550104432640?s=20

There will be a German version of boards with a whole cohort of whinging equivalent outraged keyboard warriors writing the same rubbish.

BMurr · 27-04-2020 10:12AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There will be a German version of boards with a whole cohort of whinging equivalent outraged keyboard warriors writing the same rubbish.

Calling people whinging keyboard warriors doesn't really contribute much in the way of information apart from giving some sense of your own frustration.

2u2me · 27-04-2020 12:15PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's in stark contrast to Keelings and Dublin Airport, Germany treating this for what it is......A massive infection risk. No disrespect to any country etc. People from Northern Ireland, UK, US, China are the same. In pandemic everyone external is. It's not stopping the food being picked but it's at least trying to mitigate the risk.

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1254656550104432640?s=20

I posted a while back about a youtuber from Romania who has been documenting his country sending workers to Germany.
Sounds like modern day slavery the way he puts it.

blinding · 27-04-2020 12:28PM

2u2me wrote: »

I posted a while back about a youtuber from Romania who has been documenting his country sending workers to Germany.
Sounds like modern day slavery the way he puts it.

This guy is great. He has such good insights and takes the pee out of the Bad Bosses ! ! !:D

Bass Reeves · 27-04-2020 01:11PM

US could be looking at meat shortages. It interesting from the fact that they did not put in place any plan from the start of the pandemic. Hoe do you decide what is essential and what is not in good terms. In reality you keep all sources of food processing and production in play for as long as possible.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/us-dangerously-close-to-meat-shortages-as-plants-close/

2u2me · 27-04-2020 01:15PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

US could be looking at meat shortages. It interesting from the fact that they did not put in place any plan from the start of the pandemic. Hoe do you decide what is essential and what is not in good terms. In reality you keep all sources of food processing and production in play for as long as possible.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/us-dangerously-close-to-meat-shortages-as-plants-close/

Isn't a lot of that demand shortage because supply chains to restaurants have shut?
How can we expect to produce the same amount of meat if restaurants are shut?
How much were Mcdonalds buying off them.

Bass Reeves · 27-04-2020 01:34PM

2u2me wrote: »

Isn't a lot of that demand shortage because supply chains to restaurants have shut?
How can we expect to produce the same amount of meat if restaurants are shut?
How much were Mcdonalds buying off them.

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

2u2me · 27-04-2020 01:38PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

Perhaps you're right. It's a very vague article and the bloomberg piece it references was behind a paywall.

Scotty # · 27-04-2020 02:26PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

If the same were to happen here we might be glad we still have our stock of stawberries!! :eek::eek::D:D

blinding · 27-04-2020 04:24PM

You can tell what sort of an organisation the Eu is in the manner that it allows some of its poorest people to be treated e.g. Bulgarian Farm workers in various Eu Countries = Shameful.

STB. · 27-04-2020 05:58PM

Graham wrote: »

lol @ the scrambling to find other problems now the less than minimum wage lie has been exposed.

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker" and a translator that has been representing Bulgarians working there. Both spoke quite frankly on what was going on.

At a time when €400 per month was the average monthly wage in Bulgaria, these "horticultural experts" paid between €500 and €750 upfront for translation and air fares for the privilege of working at one of three fruit farm locations in Ireland.

The chap they interviewed had no horticultural background and it was the first time he was on a fruit farm. He was told that there wasn't enough work 8 few weeks in, only to be replaced by more people brought in to replace them. He was offered another fruit picking job in Scotland at his own airfare expense.

They put in 30-45 hours a week getting 1200 per month. Out of that they paid €95 per week for their bed (and some of them are put in barracks type accommodation). Food is not provided and the canteen facilities exceeds the number of workers.

30 minutes break if they worked over 6 hours. So effectively €200 for a weeks back breaking work. Perhaps the most alarming thing in the interview was the lack of comprehension on what self isolation meant in the event of an Covid outbreak.

Was I incensed. Just a little bit.

Graham · 27-04-2020 07:04PM

STB. wrote: »

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker".

Is he the chap that called ESB staff spoiled while collecting €80k a year from the ESB?

The same fella referred to here: https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/ogle-unite-the-fake-left-exposed-by-apollo-house-stunt.11499/

From the same union pretending €400+ is just like €200.

That one?

Somebody give me a nudge if we ever get past the union flag waving.

Rows Grower · 27-04-2020 07:26PM

STB. wrote: »

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker" and a translator that has been representing Bulgarians working there. Both spoke quite frankly on what was going on.

At a time when €400 per month was the average monthly wage in Bulgaria, these "horticultural experts" paid between €500 and €750 upfront for translation and air fares for the privilege of working at one of three fruit farm locations in Ireland.

The chap they interviewed had no horticultural background and it was the first time he was on a fruit farm. He was told that there wasn't enough work 8 few weeks in, only to be replaced by more people brought in to replace them. He was offered another fruit picking job in Scotland at his own airfare expense.

They put in 30-45 hours a week getting 1200 per month. Out of that they paid €95 per week for their bed (and some of them are put in barracks type accommodation). Food is not provided and the canteen facilities exceeds the number of workers.

30 minutes break if they worked over 6 hours. So effectively €200 for a weeks back breaking work. Perhaps the most alarming thing in the interview was the lack of comprehension on what self isolation meant in the event of an Covid outbreak.

Was I incensed. Just a little bit.

The funniest thing about Graham's stance in this discussion is not only is he trapped in his own cocoon with regards to opening his mind about the problems this whole scenario has presented to our nation, he is also a moderator on this very forum in "accommodation and property".

You couldn't make it up, LOL.

STB. · 27-04-2020 07:45PM

Graham wrote: »

Is he the chap that called ESB staff spoiled while collecting €80k a year from the ESB?

The same fella referred to here: https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/ogle-unite-the-fake-left-exposed-by-apollo-house-stunt.11499/

From the same union pretending €400+ is just like €200.

That one?

Somebody give me a nudge if we ever get past the union flag waving.

I know Ogle has a mixed history even going back to his CIE days, but that interview was fairly damning.

400 like 200 ? I suggest you watch the interview. 1200 per month (or 300 per week minus 95 per week for accommodation) 200 per week seems to be right alright.

Perhaps you should watch the interview. There is more than just low pay going on in there. The staff are under tremendous pressure to even have the 12 week contract seen out from what I can see. That pressure underpinned by the money they had to pay to get here. Its scandalous.

maestroamado · 27-04-2020 07:51PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

The funniest thing about Graham's stance in this discussion is not only is he trapped in his own cocoon with regards to opening his mind about the problems this whole scenario has presented to our nation, he is also a moderator on this very forum in "accommodation and property".

You couldn't make it up, LOL.

The big con here for me here is €95 pw for what is likely a single bed in a shared room. They may be on-suite?
Keeling's to be fair are fallowing the rules and who am i to say but the living set-up i am not sure.
First of all i thought acc free, then i thought €95 bed+food which be fine.
Now €95 for bed.
The one good thing here is they will have to up their game for next year.
"unless we all forget"
I said earlier the daughter of my friend paying less than that for her own room in house Dromcondrs/Glasnevin...

eh i dunno · 27-04-2020 08:19PM

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

Graham · 27-04-2020 08:19PM

maestroamado wrote: »

The big con here for me here is €95 pw for what is likely a single bed in a shared room..

I understand the R0 of Coronavirus is inversely proportional to the weekly rates for accommodation multiplied by the average hourly rate for fruit pickers divided by the number of union reps making videos.

Either that or none of it is particularly relevant to the initial outrage-a-thon.

Alrigghtythen · 27-04-2020 08:25PM

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

They need to pay for a car and insurance out of the 200/week which would mean they are only being paid 140/week

Union maths

Rows Grower · 27-04-2020 08:27PM

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

Big difference between renting a room and a bed, ask Graham, he should know.

maestroamado · 27-04-2020 08:35PM

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

I am assuming that the living quarters on property owned by keelings.
That is the impression i got when the 2 week isolation was mentioned.
How could Keeling's organize in rented acc in swords.
So you think they are staying around Swords the local will love that...

STB. · 27-04-2020 08:45PM

maestroamado wrote: »

I am assuming that the living quarters on property owned by keelings.
That is the impression i got when the 2 week isolation was mentioned.
How could Keeling's organize in rented acc in swords.
So you think they are staying around Swords the local will love that...

Yes. Some of the units are out BY the fields, in barracks style portacabins (per Ogle's interview with former worker).

Keelings demanded that Fingal County Council change the acceptable ratio of beds from 10 to 25 in a submission to the County Development Plan or otherwise they'd have to go elsewhere. Stuff you would rather not know, especially so if there was a outbreak.

Living quarters are all part of the business plan...... Don't know where the workers get their food.

STB. · 27-04-2020 08:53PM

Graham wrote: »

I understand the R0 of Coronavirus is inversely proportional to the weekly rates for accommodation multiplied by the average hourly rate for fruit pickers divided by the number of union reps making videos.

Either that or none of it is particularly relevant to the initial outrage-a-thon.

The bare faced cheek of big businessmen profiteering off immigrants who describe them as skilled horticultural workers, workers who have paid for their own flights to be treated like dirt during a pandemic is directly proportional to those warriors who defend these disgusting practices.

maestroamado · 27-04-2020 08:56PM

STB. wrote: »

Yes. Some of the units are out BY the fields, in barracks style portacabins (per Ogle's interview with former worker).

Keelings demanded that Fingal County Council change the acceptable ratio of beds from 10 to 25 in a submission to the County Development Plan or otherwise they'd have to go elsewhere. Stuff you would rather not know, especially so if there was a outbreak.

Living quarters are all part of the business plan......

That's what i thought until daft.ie mentioned.
How many are there? the 180 on plane...

Rows Grower · 27-04-2020 09:13PM

STB. wrote: »

The bare faced cheek of big businessmen profiteering off immigrants who describe them as skilled horticultural workers, workers who have paid for their own flights to be treated like dirt during a pandemic is directly proportional to those warriors who defend these disgusting practices.

Disgusting is a fair description.

I thought we had better standards than that here but everyday is a school day.

We live and learn.

Scotty # · 27-04-2020 09:14PM

STB. wrote: »

They put in 30-45 hours a week getting 1200 per month.

30 minutes break if they worked over 6 hours. So effectively €200 for a weeks back breaking work.

Bull****!! If you watch the video you'll see his payslip. €467 take home! Where are you getting €200/week?

I'll refer you to my earlier post...

Scotty # wrote: »

This is a grossly misleading statement.

The Unite rep shows his payslip, which clearly shows his wage was €486.98 gross. He then had €19.48 PRSI deducted. No PAYE deduction as he's not liable for any. So his actual take home was €467.50.

This includes a min wage adjustment of almost €90 because he didn't pick nearly enough to bring him up to min wage per hour for the hours he worked. This is also undoubtedly the reason he was shown the gate after 8 weeks.

The Unite goes on to say "but you had to pay €95 accommodation, and some other expenses' and you're left with about €200. So you're basically working for €200?" WTF!?!?! NO! This is not how it works!

Someone should really be telling the Unite guy how employment works in this country. When people in this country, and every other country get paid, they THEN have to go and pay their living expenses! It's not the other way round.

An absolute disgracefully misleading attempt by Unite to put words in the guys mouth and totally misrepresent the situation. Shame on them!

If that's his avg wage he's on €2100/month gross. A far cry from the €1200 you claim.

Tarf2020 · 27-04-2020 09:47PM

STB. wrote: »

Yes. Some of the units are out BY the fields, in barracks style portacabins (per Ogle's interview with former worker).

Keelings demanded that Fingal County Council change the acceptable ratio of beds from 10 to 25 in a submission to the County Development Plan or otherwise they'd have to go elsewhere. Stuff you would rather not know, especially so if there was a outbreak.

Living quarters are all part of the business plan...... Don't know where the workers get their food.

All the layouts and drawings are here... not sure why the media and posters have to ask Keelings to confirm what the living conditions are like when all of these new seasonal workers buildings (built mid 2019/ finished Q1 2020) layouts and drawings are drawn out and available on the planning site...
Max 184 seasonal workers allowed under approved planning ref F18A/0313 and historical planning suggests that that the overall number includes any children that may also be residing on site with same seasonal workers.
Max 23 bedspaces within each of the 8 new accommodation units(a total of 184 beds paces). - - - The units are built in an area called Brasil Nusery

F18A/0313 Keeling’s Softfruits Unlimited company at Brazil Lands Nursery,
Brackenstown Road, Swords, Co. Dublin
Register Ref: F18A/0313
Development: The development will consist of (i) The removal of two number existing single storey accommodation
buildings, (ii) the construction of 8 number new single storey accommodation buildings, (iii) the change of use and alterations to
an existing domestic building to new ancillary amenity building, (iv) the provision of a new public footpath along the southern
boundary of the site, (v) all associated site works, services and landscaping.
Location: Brazil Lands Nursery, Brackenstown Road, Swords, Co. Dublin.
Applicant: Keelings Softfruits Unlimited company
App. Type: Permission
Date Recd.: 06-Jun-2018

Rows Grower · 27-04-2020 09:55PM

Tarf2020 wrote: »

All the layouts and drawings are here... not sure why the media and posters have to ask Keelings to confirm what the living conditions are like when all of these new seasonal workers buildings (built mid 2019/ finished Q1 2020) layouts and drawings are drawn out and available on the planning site...
Max 184 seasonal workers allowed under approved planning ref F18A/0313 and historical planning suggests that that the overall number includes any children that may also be residing on site with same seasonal workers.
Max 23 bedspaces within each of the 8 new accommodation units(a total of 184 beds paces). - - - The units are built in an area called Brasil Nusery

F18A/0313 Keeling’s Softfruits Unlimited company at Brazil Lands Nursery,
Brackenstown Road, Swords, Co. Dublin
Register Ref: F18A/0313
Development: The development will consist of (i) The removal of two number existing single storey accommodation
buildings, (ii) the construction of 8 number new single storey accommodation buildings, (iii) the change of use and alterations to
an existing domestic building to new ancillary amenity building, (iv) the provision of a new public footpath along the southern
boundary of the site, (v) all associated site works, services and landscaping.
Location: Brazil Lands Nursery, Brackenstown Road, Swords, Co. Dublin.
Applicant: Keelings Softfruits Unlimited company
App. Type: Permission
Date Recd.: 06-Jun-2018

Welcome to boards.ie Tarf2020, very interesting first ever post here.

2u2me · 28-04-2020 01:44AM

Thanks Tarf, I had no idea such information exists.

I was just reading some of the planning permission request, Keeling were asking to have less then 1 toilets per 2 bedrooms because not all bedrooms are filled for between 4-6 months a year.

Either the planning permission is wrong or the Bulgarians account is wrong, just how many bathrooms are in the place?

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00621761.pdf

I never knew just how many allowances we make for 'seasonal workers' in this country. We basically treat them like second class citizens.
Instead of 40 hours its 48 hours.
Instead of 1 toilet per room, 1 toilet per 2 rooms.
No recourse, they hardly speak the language.
They are in debt before they begin.

blinding · 28-04-2020 04:39AM

2u2me wrote: »

Thanks Tarf, I had no idea such information exists.

I was just reading some of the planning permission request, Keeling were asking to have less then 1 toilets per 2 bedrooms because not all bedrooms are filled for between 4-6 months a year.

Either the planning permission is wrong or the Bulgarians account is wrong, just how many bathrooms are in the place?

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00621761.pdf

I never knew just how many allowances we make for 'seasonal workers' in this country. We basically treat them like second class citizens.
Instead of 40 hours its 48 hours.
Instead of 1 toilet per room, 1 toilet per 2 rooms.
No recourse, they hardly speak the language.
They are in debt before they begin.

Having to Pay Agencies to get work is also a NO NO and / or it certainly should be.

Lying to People as to whether there is 8 weeks or 12 weeks work should also not be allowed.

Of course we know what Ireland is like about Lying about and Lying to itself about Irelands dirty little Secrets.

When a country Lies to itself about Child Abuse for Years then Lying to itself about the abuse of Migrant workers is a Doddle.

You’d think this would be a big deal in Brussels and Strasbourg ! ! They certainly seem to treat their MEP Migrant Workers in a Completely Different Manner :eek::eek:

Bass Reeves · 28-04-2020 08:35AM

2u2me wrote: »

Thanks Tarf, I had no idea such information exists.

I was just reading some of the planning permission request, Keeling were asking to have less then 1 toilets per 2 bedrooms because not all bedrooms are filled for between 4-6 months a year.

Either the planning permission is wrong or the Bulgarians account is wrong, just how many bathrooms are in the place?

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00621761.pdf

I never knew just how many allowances we make for 'seasonal workers' in this country. We basically treat them like second class citizens.
Instead of 40 hours its 48 hours.
Instead of 1 toilet per room, 1 toilet per 2 rooms.
No recourse, they hardly speak the language.
They are in debt before they begin.

Is it such a crime that two rooms would share a bathroom. Students sharing digs would be doing that. I imagine if workers still find digs this is still happening. It just shows you the sheltered lives some live or think they live.

Any employer can expect you to work a 48 hour week. Most do not but they can. In a minimum wage job migrant workers in general are there to make money. My son drew silage ti NZ for 8 weeks around Christmas. The average working week was 80+ hours. There was weeks he worked 100+ hours. pay. He was disdusted if he got less than 70 hours. He was on the NZ minimum wage. There was shock and horror a deduction for food and lodgings.

There is no legal requirement to pay overtime. What many may not know that even in the PS where some workers work sub 40 hour weeks the divisor for OT is 44.

blinding wrote: »

Having to Pay Agencies to get work is also a NO NO and / or it certainly should be.

Lying to People as to whether there is 8 weeks or 12 weeks work should also not be allowed.

Of course we know what Ireland is like about Lying about and Lying to itself about Irelands dirty little Secrets.

When a country Lies to itself about Child Abuse for Years then Lying to itself about the abuse of Migrant workers is a Doddle.

You’d think this would be a big deal in Brussels and Strasbourg ! ! They certainly seem to treat their MEP Migrant Workers in a Completely Different Manner :eek::eek:

I agree that workers should not have to pay agencies. However that is outside Ireland control with migrant workers. On flights or travel expenses the vast majority of employer will not pay employees to relocate to start a new job.

Bringing up child abuse in this senario is disgusting

Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

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