Any star track fans out there?

Midster · 21-04-2020 2:00am #1

Explain this one. If there are different types of ships, both civilian and naval ships.
Why does the federation not have a single spaceship fighter craft carrier?

Midster · 21-04-2020 6:18pm

Hey

Slydice · 21-04-2020 9:34pm

Well says here they had their own warp engines able to do warp 9:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_attack_fighter

Probably they could be stored in some ships hanger bays that could take runabouts / shuttle craft.

They were sent in at the Cardassians (to get them to break away from the dominion lines) at the start of the battle to retake DS9:

TheValeyard · 21-04-2020 9:44pm

Probably fit enough in certain ship types like the main shuttle bay of a Galaxy class starship.

Or could be technology is so advanced in the 24th century it could render large scale fighter craft useless. What good could fighters be against advanced deflectors, shields, weapons, sensors etc

Although they were used during the DS9 war in a fair few battles.

odyssey06 · 21-04-2020 10:06pm

OP you might get more responses with a better title

Pretty good (external) article here on it:
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/5991/why-arent-there-any-fighter-carriers-in-the-star-trek-universe

Star Trek universe answer: It comes down to phasers and shields.

Background reason: Star Trek used models for ships from the get go, easier to model a small number of capital ships and to base combat on that. Napoleonic era Horatio Hornblower books were an inspiration both to Gene Roddenberry and to Wrath of Khan director Nicholas Meyer in setting the expectations for ships in Trek universe. Royal Navy frigate type ships are therefore a closer fit to the Enterprise role - long ranging self sufficient vessels who conduct exploration, science missions, peacetime patrols and military roles in time of war.

AMKC · 21-04-2020 10:59pm

I think the track in the London Olympics in 2012 had a few stars on track alright.

Stark · 22-04-2020 10:57am

"Star Wars or Star Trek?".

"Neither, Star Track ftw!!".

Evade · 22-04-2020 3:11pm

There were small fighter sized craft before DS9. TNG's the First Duty had them and the Mars Defence Perimeter pods looked to be around that size too.

TheValeyard · 22-04-2020 3:20pm

Evade wrote: »

There were small fighter sized craft before DS9. TNG's the First Duty had them and the Mars Defence Perimeter pods looked to be around that size too.

Oh yeah, they went up against the Borg cube.

Did not go well.

Evade · 22-04-2020 3:25pm

Not even worth assimilating.

TheValeyard · 22-04-2020 3:29pm

Cube could just have dammed them to the same outcome.

TheValeyard · 22-04-2020 3:34pm

Boop, Boop, boop

Midster · 22-04-2020 6:47pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Probably fit enough in certain ship types like the main shuttle bay of a Galaxy class starship.

Or could be technology is so advanced in the 24th century it could render large scale fighter craft useless.

I don’t see how that could ever be possible, for example once the shields are either disabled or beaten down on the ship that is being attacked, however big the ship was, fighters could launch different tech which attaches to the hull, which when activated could completely screw with that ships engines, energy output, phasers or even life support.

What good could fighters be against advanced deflectors, shields, weapons, sensors etc [/quote]

You could probably have said the same about the big ships of ww2, and yet fighter craft proved invaluable, and were able to either disable or sometimes even destroy them.

Although they were used during the DS9 war in a fair few battles.[/quote]

Which proves my point, fighter craft at the very least provide a distraction, if the enemy ship for example is having to divide its huge firepower between the small nimble fighter craft attacking outboard sensors, and anything else it can and the bigger ships there is less intense firepower on either one.

dhaughton99 · 22-04-2020 6:52pm

Pew Pew!

Midster · 22-04-2020 6:52pm

Stark wrote: »

"Star Wars or Star Trek?".

"Neither, Star Track ftw!!".

I launched this conversation on multiple threads, sorry if the name wasn’t checked before I posted it. Silly me

Midster · 22-04-2020 7:05pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

OP you might get more responses with a better title

Pretty good (external) article here on it:
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/5991/why-arent-there-any-fighter-carriers-in-the-star-trek-universe

Star Trek universe answer: It comes down to phasers and shields.

Background reason: Star Trek used models for ships from the get go, easier to model a small number of capital ships and to base combat on that. Napoleonic era Horatio Hornblower books were an inspiration both to Gene Roddenberry and to Wrath of Khan director Nicholas Meyer in setting the expectations for ships in Trek universe. Royal Navy frigate type ships are therefore a closer fit to the Enterprise role - long ranging self sufficient vessels who conduct exploration, science missions, peacetime patrols and military roles in time of war.

Yes I’m sorry about the title name.

I understand what you mean but fighter craft have proved again and again that even if they are only there for a distraction during a battle with the enemy, they can reduce the intensity of the enemy ships return fire by being that distraction.

If those smaller crafter hand no shields for example, they might have stealth tech, and be harder to lock onto. Also they could be fitted with all sorts of missiles, to suit the enemy

TheValeyard · 22-04-2020 7:25pm

Well if they were successful in the Star Trek universe, Major powers would be using them, but they're not, so therefore they are not produced.

Evade · 22-04-2020 7:30pm

The Akira class was initially designed, out of universe, as a carrier. It ended up being shrunk down from ~500m to ~270m so it's a bit too small to take ~25m long fighters in any great capacity now.

TheValeyard · 22-04-2020 9:55pm

In Star Trek Online, the Federation has carrier vessels.

The Jupiter Class.

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Midster · 23-04-2020 1:10am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well if they were successful in the Star Trek universe, Major powers would be using them, but they're not, so therefore they are not produced.

Fighter craft are known for both there stealth and agility, and if those craft were to also have a cloak, or some sort of weapon to prevent lock ons, the defending craft would then have to manually lock onto each craft individually with less than 50 percent chance of hitting anything at all.

Fighters can also carry more specialized weapons to suit each target specifically.
If you don’t want to bash up all your big ships in a toe to toe sort of battle. Why not send fast moving stealthy fighter craft in first to launch specialised shield smashing weapons, so you can arrive with a full shield, no damage and already shooting.

This tactic has been used against the enterprise itself.

This is why it makes no sense.

Midster · 23-04-2020 1:13am

TheValeyard wrote: »

In Star Trek Online, the Federation has carrier vessels.

The Jupiter Class.

Never seen it in action? Have you?

Rawr · 23-04-2020 2:31pm

Star Track? Nah....I'm more of a Star Walls person

As for the topic:
My guess is that since Starfleet's main military role was that of "Peace Keeping", the heavy cruiser design of starships was their preferred method of running defense operations, especially since they could multi-task with peacetime operations, and not just warfare.

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At some point that must have changed with the introduction of what became the Maquis Raider. Since we see them in use officially during the Dominion War this appears to have been Starfleet's attack fighter from before. I kind of wonder what conflict prompted that change of tactic. It made sense to use them in the Dominion war since the standard Jem Hadar fighter was about the same size and had the same advantage of being able to weave in and around blocks of enemy cruisers.

Some other threat must have prompted the need to design these. Since we see them in use with the Maquis I wonder if the earlier Federation / Cardassian War was what they were built for.

odyssey06 · 23-04-2020 2:40pm

Rawr wrote: »

At some point that must have changed with the introduction of what became the Maquis Raider... Some other threat must have prompted the need to design these. Since we see them in use with the Maquis I wonder if the earlier Federation / Cardassian War was what they were built for.

That's an interesting angle and is a better explanation of why the Maquis raiders and Federation attack fighters in the Dominion War appear to the same.
I can see such ships being surplus after the earlier Cardassian war, and the ships themselves being off-loaded, but not with military grade weapons systems.

Against that, the script to DS9 Heart of Stone describes these as "Peregrine class couriers" rather than attack fighters. Couriers being souped up shuttles for ferrying people long distance, which the Maquis acquired as non-military and modified with weapons.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Peregrine_class

Evade · 23-04-2020 2:45pm

Rawr wrote: »

Star Track? Nah....I'm more of a Star Walls person

As for the topic:
My guess is that since Starfleet's main military role was that of "Peace Keeping", the heavy cruiser design of starships was their preferred method of running defense operations, especially since they could multi-task with peacetime operations, and not just warfare.

At some point that must have changed with the introduction of what became the Maquis Raider. Since we see them in use officially during the Dominion War this appears to have been Starfleet's attack fighter from before. I kind of wonder what conflict prompted that change of tactic. It made sense to use them in the Dominion war since the standard Jem Hadar fighter was about the same size and had the same advantage of being able to weave in and around blocks of enemy cruisers.

Some other threat must have prompted the need to design these. Since we see them in use with the Maquis I wonder if the earlier Federation / Cardassian War was what they were built for.

The Maquis' success with them might have prompted their adoption (re-adoption?) by Starfleet. It's implied most of the Maquis ships are existing designs that they've upgunned.

TheValeyard · 23-04-2020 5:58pm

Midster wrote: »

Fighter craft are known for both there stealth and agility, and if those craft were to also have a cloak, or some sort of weapon to prevent lock ons, the defending craft would then have to manually lock onto each craft individually with less than 50 percent chance of hitting anything at all.

Fighters can also carry more specialized weapons to suit each target specifically.
If you don’t want to bash up all your big ships in a toe to toe sort of battle. Why not send fast moving stealthy fighter craft in first to launch specialised shield smashing weapons, so you can arrive with a full shield, no damage and already shooting.

This tactic has been used against the enterprise itself.

This is why it makes no sense.

Well, Romulan and Klingon Capital ships can cloak, but cannot fire.
It the Trek universe, for the most part, couple of exceptions, but ships cannot fire when cloaked or raise shields. So cloaking comes with some serious risks.

Decloaking gives the enemy to hammer you before you can raise shields or defences.

We've seen cases of much smaller ships trying to challenge star ships and not been able to really do anything. The Peregrine class seem to explode very easily, obviously filled with Red shirts. Drone fighters used in Discovery would make more sense since it avoids wasting the lives of pilots.

23-04-2020 6:32pm

Once more than a now lukewarm fan, I am put off by the fact that the current intellectual property owners cracked down hard on that cool bunch who designed a Starship ENTERPRISE C and D in a Quake unreal engine.
Both starships could be downloaded free before the creators received a "cease and desist" notice from the rights own. Come on, when was the last Star Trek movie made now?

Pogo made a cool "Data and Picard" video on YouTube though. I highly recommend you watch it.
The genre he says is called "plunderphonics"

TheValeyard · 23-04-2020 7:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Once more than a now lukewarm fan, I am put off by the fact that the current intellectual property owners cracked down hard on that cool bunch who designed a Starship ENTERPRISE C and D in a Quake unreal engine.
Both starships could be downloaded free before the creators received a "cease and desist" notice from the rights own. Come on, when was the last Star Trek movie made now?

Pogo made a cool "Data and Picard" video on YouTube though. I highly recommend you watch it.
The genre he says is called "plunderphonics"

Yeah Stage9 made a really nice Virtual Ent-D. Still have the VR version and the later release. It was a work of art.

Any star track fans out there?

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