Better Call Saul Spoilers

EltonJohn69 · 22-04-2020 11:44am

It’s looking a lot like a Kim Nacho wedding... it’s the only way for the story to end and breaking bad make sense.

chops018 · 22-04-2020 11:45am

Penn wrote: »

Well when Gus is taunting Hector a few seasons later, he tells him that all the Salamancas are dead. One of either Hector's nephews or grandsons was killed in the assault on Don Eladio's house, so Gus taunting Hector after that would suggest that guy was Hector's last relative (or at least last one involved in the Cartel).

That would suggest Gus knows Lalo is dead. Now I guess it could be suggested that Lalo is presumed dead at the end of this season, but I think it's unlikely Gus wouldn't find out Lalo is still alive during the course of next season considering Lalo will be on the warpath whereas Saul will obviously find out he's still alive. So I'd say the most likely explanation is everyone finds out Lalo is still alive next season, but by the end of it, Gus kills Lalo but Saul doesn't know about it (as he's still a bit removed from the war between Gus and Lalo).

Or even depending on timelines it might work out. I think someone mentioned season 5 of BCS is running alongside season 1 of BB. If true the overlap could work in season 6.

Possibilities there for a lot of things I suppose.

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-04-2020 11:46am

MICKEYG wrote: »

Maybe in S6 Lalo is killed buy Gus does not tell Saul so he can keep him 'onside'. "I am protecting you from Lalo Salamanca, work for me or that protection stops"

That's a good impression of Gus

ZV Yoda · 22-04-2020 12:20pm

I agree with the general sentiment that this episode didn't seem to do justice to the season. It was a bit of a damp squib.

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It’s looking a lot like a Kim Nacho wedding... it’s the only way for the story to end and breaking bad make sense.

Do you mean a Kim / Lalo wedding? Lalo was definitely impressed by Kim when she told him at gunpoint how he should be running his business. Likewise, it's easy to see how she could be attracted to the danger & excitement of Lalo & the cartel. It's not implausible that she could work for the cartel making big bucks... while also doing her pro bono work. Lalo would even get a perverse kick of that.

I'm not sure if a romantic relationship really will develop between Kim & Lalo... but I could definitely see how a mutually beneficial business arrangement could happen.... especially if Saul gets involved in some new scam that pushes Kim away in the final season.

After I watched the finale last night, I went back & re-watched BB S2 Ep8 where Saul is introduced. What really struck me is how similar the Lalo / Kim scene was to the Saul / Walter scene in the classroom. In that case, Saul ridicules Walter's business approach & suggests he (Saul) could do a better job. Very much like the Lalo / Kim scene.

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-04-2020 12:44pm

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I agree with the general sentiment that this episode didn't seem to do justice to the season. It was a bit of a damp squib.

Do you mean a Kim / Lalo wedding? Lalo was definitely impressed by Kim when she told him at gunpoint how he should be running his business. Likewise, it's easy to see how she could be attracted to the danger & excitement of Lalo & the cartel. It's not implausible that she could work for the cartel making big bucks... while also doing her pro bono work. Lalo would even get a perverse kick of that.

I'm not sure if a romantic relationship really will develop between Kim & Lalo... but I could definitely see how a mutually beneficial business arrangement could happen.... especially if Saul gets involved in some new scam that pushes Kim away in the final season.

After I watched the finale last night, I went back & re-watched BB S2 Ep8 where Saul is introduced. What really struck me is how similar the Lalo / Kim scene was to the Saul / Walter scene in the classroom. In that case, Saul ridicules Walter's business approach & suggests he (Saul) could do a better job. Very much like the Lalo / Kim scene.

Probably why she marrries him so.

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-04-2020 12:51pm

I really liked the episode. First action that was tense and believable instead of cartoonlike and absurd.

Lalo making use of the passage and knowing the layout of his home to take out the hit squad was believable. Mike's appearance out of the blue as a crack sniper was not and neither was Nacho's ninjalike recovery of the drugs earlier on.

Also Lalo not having much need for sleep suggests he is a maniac in the clinical sense of the word, which is completely in keeping with his behaviour throughout. He's an evil bastard but his positivity makes me root for him when contrasted with the dour nature of the rest of the main characters.

I get that you could be frustrated by the lack of resolution with things with Kim when that seemed like it was coming to a head. She's pretty much a dramatic necessity for the show though because Saul doesn't have anyone else to confide in. So it's either draw out that storyline or have him doing House of Cards monologues or True Romance hallucinations. Always going to be a certain amount of trying to hook people for the next season too.

scamalert · 22-04-2020 1:15pm

Lyra Gifted Chest wrote: »

I really liked the episode. First action that was tense and believable instead of cartoonlike and absurd.
Lalo making use of the passage and knowing the layout of his home to take out the hit squad was believable. Mike's appearance out of the blue as a crack sniper was not and neither was Nacho's ninjalike recovery of the drugs earlier on.

Also Lalo not having much need for sleep suggests he is a maniac in the clinical sense of the word, which is completely in keeping with his behaviour throughout. He's an evil bastard but his positivity makes me root for him when contrasted with the dour nature of the rest of the main characters.

I get that you could be frustrated by the lack of resolution with things with Kim when that seemed like it was coming to a head. She's pretty much a dramatic necessity for the show though because Saul doesn't have anyone else to confide in. So it's either draw out that storyline or have him doing House of Cards monologues or True Romance hallucinations. Always going to be a certain amount of trying to hook people for the next season too.

thats the problem entire time line and story line is skewed compared to BB start.

interesting fact that Saul was supposed to be like one off for badger scene getting him arrested yet his acting got him into full show.

which puts a lot of creative side to be made, given no one imagined this show would last decade, after BB has finished, yet it still has to tie in with BB to be convincing, and the fact is that Lalo isnt in BB nor kim or Nacho, yet twins would wipe out anyone for their own, makes it less convincing that Lalo goes missing one way or another, and likes of Nacho would be suspected as masterminds to attempt such drastic measures- as he would have little to no gain.

Im all out for this show to continue as seems another 2 seasons are still possible, but in the same sense timeline would have to be few years delayed, at very least, which doesn't really suit how Saul is developed and Tuco being in the picture within year. For Saul to operate his independent business be on tv and well known in ABQ.

Martin567 · 22-04-2020 1:31pm

gary0345 wrote: »

After watching the season finali of Better call Saul I decided to watch breaking bad again and realised an overlap of the two programs.

In the first few minutes of of the first episode of BB during Walts 50th birthday party, Hank sticks on the news and he's being interviewed for putting 3 lads in cuffs and siezing about 700k, this is the same time line as better Call Saul episode s05e04 where it shows hank and gomez chasing them down

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I don't think this can be correct. It must have been another seizure Hank was looking at on tv.

If the above was true then Walt & Jesse have already started cooking meth and Krazy 8 may already be dead. Also Tuco would be coming on the scene shortly even though he is supposed to have another 11 months in prison.

Apparently the current season of BCS is still only in 2004. I know Breaking Bad was first broadcast in 2008 but did we ever know for sure that it was actually set in 2008? If it was then we are still four years away in the BCS timeline.

There is going to have to be a big jump forward at some point in Season 6.

Penn · 22-04-2020 2:35pm

Martin567 wrote: »

I don't think this can be correct. It must have been another seizure Hank was looking at on tv.

If the above was true then Walt & Jesse have already started cooking meth and Krazy 8 may already be dead. Also Tuco would be coming on the scene shortly even though he is supposed to have another 11 months in prison.

Apparently the current season of BCS is still only in 2004. I know Breaking Bad was first broadcast in 2008 but did we ever know for sure that it was actually set in 2008? If it was then we are still four years away in the BCS timeline.

There is going to have to be a big jump forward at some point in Season 6.

Yeah the party at Walt's house at the start of Breaking Bad was his 50th birthday. He has his 51st birthday early in season 5. So Tuco was either already out of prison or nearly out at the time of Walt's 50th, so BCS now is still at least 10 months before the start of Breaking Bad.

billyhead · 22-04-2020 2:49pm

Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2020 3:04pm

leggo wrote: »

See for me it makes total sense when you consider the scene with her mother that opened one episode. When you have someone like that who’s grown up around those kind of people, I remember I heard it described as they flip a coin between trying to control/save them and just saying “**** it” in exasperation and becoming exactly like them. I think we saw Kim for the past few seasons try to save Jimmy from his worst impulses, while also occasionally saying “**** it” and dabbling in some low level cons. When she got to the crossroads of having to leave Jimmy or accept and embrace who he was, she didn’t have the heart so doubled down. Then even last week I was saying it wouldn’t surprised me if her showdown with Lalo exhilarated her.

They haven’t spelled it out but the pieces are actually all there if you look, and it also flips the narrative on its head that she’s some damsel in distress who was in danger (which is also the assumption from Howard that pushed her over the edge here). I wasn’t expecting it, I didn’t know how I felt about it in the moment, but the more I think about it the more I love Saul now trying to be the voice of reason and Kim breaking bad. Obviously the pew pew scene is confirmation of this on their end.
.

I dunno I am not sure, I mean the tequila scam was based on fun. The changing of the plans for Mesa Verde with the help of Jimmy seemed to be where she drew the line for a long time. Also she tried to go the legit route with Acker and was extremely reluctant to bring in Jimmy again. Also she wanted to knock Jimmy's scam against Kevin of Mesa Verde on its head. Willing to make up the difference out of her own pocket.

The jump she has taken now seems to me to be too big of a jump to be credible.

ixoy · 22-04-2020 3:17pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The jump she has taken now seems to me to be too big of a jump to be credible.

The videos linked above give some background to the thought process of the writers for her decision.

Vex Willems · 22-04-2020 3:22pm

billyhead wrote: »

Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.

treat yourself, watch both!

leggo · 22-04-2020 3:27pm

Her turn wasn't in this week's episode, though. Aside from her being afraid for Jimmy's safety before he went into the desert, we haven't actually learned what Kim thinks about Jimmy's most recent activities, and anything we have learned has been approving: her saying she knows he's lying but being supportive after finding the coffee cup, sticking with him after Lalo, and they had sex after he told her he was now a 'friend of the cartel'.

Her turn was in the episode she suggested they get married, the episode that opened up with the scene of her and her mother, those two scenes bookended the episode and now we can deduce are linked. That's when she got to the crossroads and decided to double down on him, and that's very credible behaviour for someone who has an upbringing like we've learned she had. The reason it felt WTF in this episode is because they waited until now for her to show her cards, to the point that Jimmy didn't even know how she felt. We feel jarred because we're supposed to feel jarred, she should know better and this is out of character, we know this is the case because Jimmy is playing out the same confusion we have in his own facial expressions. We should also feel uneasy about the Howard plan because we know her and Jimmy don't end up together once BB kicks in. It's tragedy.

But all the pieces were there, we even reacted to them in real time in this thread just didn't know where to put them, and that's why I'm so into it because this was a direction that both makes sense and none of us predicted. As a podcast I listen to put it, the show is all about good characters going bad, Breaking Bad was the name of the original show! Yet we still fall for it every damn time they do it.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 22-04-2020 3:44pm

billyhead wrote: »

Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.

You lucky person.

Yes. Watch it.

ixoy · 22-04-2020 4:00pm

Some excellent points made about why her turn isn't actually a turn but a credible development for her character.

How does it fit into her dedicating herself to pro bono work? Or how she felt guilty about some of the tactics she had to employ to for Mesa Verde and deliberately sabotaged them? Where does that fit into her ethical code?

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-04-2020 4:43pm

ixoy wrote: »

Some excellent points made about why her turn isn't actually a turn but a credible development for her character.

How does it fit into her dedicating herself to pro bono work? Or how she felt guilty about some of the tactics she had to employ to for Mesa Verde and deliberately sabotaged them? Where does that fit into her ethical code?

She has repressed hostility to the privileged. Definite sympathy with the people who get crushed in the gears of big organisations. Her role as an instrument of those organisations does not sit well with her.

Walter White had repressed ideas of grandeur that emerged in his transformation. Kim's is more interesting because hers are generally positive traits behind it.

ixoy · 22-04-2020 4:46pm

Lyra Gifted Chest wrote: »

She has repressed hostility to the privileged. Definite sympathy with the people who get crushed in the gears of big organisations. Her role as an instrument of those organisations does not sit well with her.

That's a good take. I still do try and wonder how does she then support Jimmy working for the cartel? Primarily the cartels work by exploiting the poor into drug addiction and crime. In her viewpoint, should the Salamancas not be worse than Masa Verde or HMM could ever be? Or, as she alluded to, do the ends justify the means - better they get the money to use to some good cause than the cartel squander it.

s7ryf3925pivug · 22-04-2020 5:22pm

ixoy wrote: »

That's a good take. I still do try and wonder how does she then support Jimmy working for the cartel? Primarily the cartels work by exploiting the poor into drug addiction and crime. In her viewpoint, should the Salamancas not be worse than Masa Verde or HMM could ever be? Or, as she alluded to, do the ends justify the means - better they get the money to use to some good cause than the cartel squander it.

I think she's a bit overwhelmed trying to deal with all the mental **** he's bringing her way. If she gets a chance to take a step back she might reconsider.

Or maybe it's a bit like when you watch half of a terrible film and you decide to watch it to the end, even though you aren't enjoying it, just because you've already invested time into it. Jimmy and Howard suggesting she might be better off cutting ties looks like it just made her dig her heels in.

Or maybe he's just brought out a maternal instinct. He is a bit of a tragic figure, and kinda excitable, gets carried away with his ideas.

But yeah she'll eventually leave if he voluntarily maintains a relationship with the salamancas though

El Duda · 22-04-2020 6:53pm

Did anyone notice the Breaking Bad theme over the end credits?

I think it's a hint that next seasons timeline runs parallel with BB.

johng906 · 22-04-2020 7:03pm

A little let down by the season finale - feels like there was another episode to finish on. Better to think of the season as a whole and be thankful for the high standard this year.

Thoughts

I'm not sure what to make of Kim's turn in character / personality / values in the last half. Stark contrast to the rest of the season, despite the gradual move. She is becoming something else, I guess we will see in the next season.

For a minute i thought Nacho walked into a loyalty test in the back garden and would be iced.

The crack hit squad was useless. A little too useless? Were they a set up.

Is this all part of Gus' plan to put Bolsa in the frame for the attempted hit?

Howard is the head of the legal firm, but comes across with no EQ when warning Kim in the courtroom. Strange.

Also Mike pleading Nachos case to Gus again - a skilled operator would know better.

Whatever happens Lalo will be out for revenge next season, looking forward to that...

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2020 7:40pm

MICKEYG wrote: »

Maybe in S6 Lalo is killed buy Gus does not tell Saul so he can keep him 'onside'. "I am protecting you from Lalo Salamanca, work for me or that protection stops"

Lyra Gifted Chest wrote: »

That's a good impression of Gus

Did the stare and all, I bet.

rubadub · 22-04-2020 8:44pm

johng906 wrote: »

The crack hit squad was useless. A little too useless? Were they a set up.

Nah, they could easily have killed him, and they killed others. If they were told not to kill him then they were actually highly skilled to know he would use the guy as a shield and the high power bullet would not go through! and plus if it was all a plan Gus would have had to have found very highly skilled people, known to be able to make Lalo think they were trying to kill him AND have them all coincidentally be suicidal as they would have to be in on the plan too. Unless you think Gus cheaped out and just sent random lads and did not care if they succeeded, he seems to meticulous for that.

All I know is Gus must be thinking...

"Better call Saul"
"Shoulda sent Mike"

Beersmith · 22-04-2020 8:48pm

Gus knew Kim and Lalo are to marry so I believe he was sparing kim, unless gus wants to marry kim as well

The Black Oil · 22-04-2020 9:23pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

I love how it's only dropped once a week as opposed to all at once. Gives time to appreciate the eposide rather than racing onto the next one.

Good TV is a digestion process. It suits of the mood of BCS perfectly. No need for scenes to confirm to the demands of commercials, just let the scenes and characters breathe.

Personally, I'm disinclined to compare this to BB all that often, partly because the latter's been off the air for over 6 years. I enjoyed the season and finale too. The viewing figures posted earlier are fairly typical for cable and I can't really see this setting the internet ablaze next year for half the planet to catch up because there's no 'hey, have you heard of this crazy show with the school teacher who cooks meth?' I do love the air and aesthetic Albuquerque brings to proceedings, as it did with BB.

It was a sad episode in some ways. I almost felt a bit ill when Kim laughed in at Howard after he recounted about the bowling balls, etc. And there was a Chuck reference. I think the first sign of trouble was Kim looking through the peephole. Security check aside, and me perhaps being literal, it felt like a shift in perspective, with trouble ahead. On the felony situation, to ease her guilt, perhaps. I liked the music in the room where she saw the files of crimes at the harsher end of the spectrum. Jimmy's freakout at Mike's Batcave 'I can't do this'...eh, well, we know otherwise from BB. I'm not sure if they were

Defeat Lalo in his own back yard, you've got to be bloody kidding.* He set the ground rules earlier, after all. Perhaps it was similar some of the stuff earlier with Howard which aside from the fancy suits vs those slumming it thing, maybe just don't mess with people. Nacho's in a tricky spot too. I wasn't quite sure how they were going to undermine Howard, fiddle some paperwork a la previous seasons? 'Cold light of day' was the comment, iirc. Disintegration of a marriage.

*Once the kitchen sequence happened I kept hoping for...

Hot oil
Mag change
Hot oil
Mag change
:pac:

Word of the week - showmanship.

Muahahaha · 22-04-2020 9:44pm

johng906 wrote: »

A little let down by the season finale - feels like there was another episode to finish on. Better to think of the season as a whole and be thankful for the high standard this year.

yeah I kinda felt the same, would have liked to see one more episode and more of the same tension we had in last weeks episode. Think it would have been better with that extra episode seeing Lalo making a beeline back to Albuquerque and going straight for one of Mike, Gus, Jimmy or Nacho but leaving us on a cliffhanger to the next season.

The crack hit squad was useless. A little too useless? Were they a set up.

They really were useless, 5 of them in total I think and they still couldnt get the job done. Though I did like the way Lalo escaped by the tunnel and the psycho in him doesnt think for a minute about getting away, instead he turns right back to his house to deal with them, it sums up the madness of Lalos character.

The hit team Gus used also would also beg the question as to why Gus didnt send Mike, we know he has sniper skills which might have been easier to get him. Mike also has Tyrus and Victor as enforcers.

Arghus · 23-04-2020 3:28am

I really enjoy BCS. Let me say that, but-

The quality of the last couple of episodes was very high this year, but I still feel the show lacks that extra edge or bite that would make it a truly next level show. It's very, very good, but for me it goes 90% of the way there and never quite rams home that final 10% to blow your mind. And it feels like it could, but doesn't. The show is great at building up tension until you are sure something momentous is going to happen - which is an achievement in and of itself - but, I dunno, hand on heart I always feel like it pulls its punches.

I know comparisons to BB are a bit lazy, but, fck it, there's a reason for that, but BB was great at delivering a slow burn character driven story AND amazingly gratifying satisfying moments. BCS, I think, lacks that same feeling of satisfaction.

This episode was well acted, tense, tightly shot and edited - but, surely, I can't be the only one that felt it was anti-climatic?

thecretinhop · 23-04-2020 11:07am

Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad Timeline Explained | Den of Geek
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/better-call-saul-breaking-bad-timeline-explained/

spoliers in there

thecretinhop · 23-04-2020 11:17am

Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad Timeline Explained | Den of Geek
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/better-call-saul-breaking-bad-timeline-explained/

spoliers in there

Hannibal_Smith · 23-04-2020 2:01pm

Just looked back at that BB clip.

Did Saul ask whether 'Don Lalo' sent them? So I don't think Lalo dies? Also, Don?

Put the spoiler tags in for people who haven't watched BB yet and don't want it spoiled.

Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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Better Call Saul Spoilers