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Czech Republic vs ROI

  • 19-04-2020 11:14pm
    #1
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭


    My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

    Coronavirus Cases Czech:
    6,701
    Deaths:
    186

    Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
    15,251
    Deaths:
    610

    Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

    Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

    Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

    They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4pm.
    They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

    The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

    I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

    I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

    Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    sterz
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭sterz


    How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?


  • #3
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

    Coronavirus Cases Czech:
    6,701
    Deaths:
    186

    Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
    15,251
    Deaths:
    610

    Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

    Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

    Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

    The actions I know they took that were ahead of different to us are:

    They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4.
    They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

    The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

    I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

    I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

    Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.

    The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.


  • #4
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Gone Drinking


    sterz wrote: »
    How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?

    They have tested 168 thousand people in Czech. I don't know the number for Ireland, I'm sure someone here does.


  • #5
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    sterz wrote: »
    How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?

    The death numbers are the most important metric of how your polices are working. The Czechs are miles better than us in this regard.


  • #6
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Gone Drinking


    KindOfIrish wrote: »
    The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference.

    But if it lessens the spread of the virus, therefore lessening the chance of it getting as far as someone who is at risk, it makes a huge difference no?


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  • #7
    rn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭rn


    If there's one thing to be learned from all this is lies, dam lies and statistics.

    There's such a variation in test kit standards and the way cases are being selected and counted, it's almost impossible to do "real time" comparison.

    In a year or two time someone will take the average death rates for March and April for European countries up to covid19 pandemic and see what's the relative increase for 2020. Then we'll have an idea of the scale per country.


  • #8
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I wonder did they go into full lockdown mode sooner and more rigidly than ireland?
    Our societies are different I’m sure in how we interact in work and as families too. They’ve lived through full martial law in their not too distant past. An alien concept for us here


  • #9
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Gone Drinking


    rn wrote: »
    If there's one thing to be learned from all this is lies, dam lies and statistics.

    There's such a variation in test kit standards and the way cases are being selected and counted, it's almost impossible to do "real time" comparison.

    In a year or two time someone will take the average death rates for March and April for European countries up to covid19 pandemic and see what's the relative increase for 2020. Then we'll have an idea of the scale per country.

    Yeah so you realize that if we wait until 2020 for the hard numbers, we miss a chance to make improvements on how we're lessening the impact right now? That's the whole point of using the data we have, which I admit is most likely not perfect. We have to take actions now and we can only do this with the data we have.


  • #10
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    But if it lessens the spread of the virus, therefore lessening the chance of it getting as far as someone who is at risk, it makes a huge difference no?

    I’ve not bothered with masks at all. Wouldn’t even know where to buy one. It’s funny in a previous job I had no end of access to them and other ppe and ordered most of it for the team
    I’d estimate I see maybe 20% or less wearing them around about


  • #11
    Gone Drinking
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Gone Drinking


    road_high wrote: »
    I’ve not bothered with masks at all. Wouldn’t even know where to buy one. It’s funny in a previous job I had no end of access to them and other ppe and ordered most of it for the team
    I’d estimate I see maybe 20% or less wearing them around about

    Me either but that's the point, maybe we should have? Maybe they should be mandatory and widely available. If it had even a small chance to help things, why not do it?


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  • #12
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    Me either but that's the point, maybe we should have? Maybe they should be mandatory and widely available. If it had even a small chance to help things, why not do it?

    If the government want us to wear them they can send us out masks. I don’t know where to get them I’m assuming all the usual places would be sold out.
    Not a fan of masks, find them very uncomfortable outside of what is absolutely necessary


  • #13
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    The experts claimed a mask could actually create issues re putting hands to face etc but i dont buy that. It is clear there were no masks in the country to allow widespread use. They didnt have enough for nurses nevermind every man woman and child and thst surely swayed the initial advice.
    Anyone who can get their hands on a suitable mask, should wear it imo.


  • #14
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    mickdw wrote: »
    The experts claimed a mask could actually create issues re putting hands to face etc but i dont buy that. It is clear there were no masks in the country to allow widespread use. They didnt have enough for nurses nevermind every man woman and child and thst surely swayed the initial advice.
    Anyone who can get their hands on a suitable mask, should wear it imo.

    Where can you buy suitable masks? Everyone would need a packet each as they need to be disposed off regularly or else they become a potentially bigger source of infection


  • #15
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    KindOfIrish wrote: »
    The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

    Your explanation makes sense, but stand by for a barrage of insults from the 'why do you hate old people' brigade on here, most of whom I'd wager have never done a thing for old people apart from posture on the internet.


  • #16
    Bsharp
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Bsharp


    Something that concerned me from the start of this pandemic is the prevalence of respiratory disease in ireland, when you read about it Ireland's death rate for these illnesses is almost 40% higher than the EU average. Not sure how this compares to Czech but it's not a good starting point no matter what way you look at it.


  • #17
    Binka
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Binka


    road_high wrote: »
    Where can you buy suitable masks? Everyone would need a packet each as they need to be disposed off regularly or else they become a potentially bigger source of infection

    All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly). I bought 2 to rotate. I am working from home so only go out once every two weeks.
    I don't see the point in not wearing it as no scientist has come up with a definitive answer yet and some countries have proved that they make a difference. It doesn't bother me at all and I think a lot of people are embarrassed to wear them because it's not part of our culture to do so.

    If it stops some of the droplets getting in and out, that's sounds good to me.

    I have heard much talk of viral load as part of the reason there are varying symptoms.

    I say keep your droplets to yourself!


  • #18
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Binka wrote: »
    All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly). I bought 2 to rotate. I am working from home so only go out once every two weeks.
    I don't see the point in not wearing it as no scientist has come up with a definitive answer yet and some countries have proved that they make a difference. It doesn't bother me at all and I think a lot of people are embarrassed to wear them because it's not part of our culture to do so.

    If it stops some of the droplets getting in and out, that's sounds good to me.

    I have heard much talk of viral load as part of the reason there are varying symptoms.

    I say keep your droplets to yourself!

    Do you have an existing condition?


  • #19
    Binka
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Binka


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Do you have an existing condition?

    I do. I am diabetic so really wouldn't want to take any chances based on theories.


  • #20
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

    Coronavirus Cases Czech:
    6,701
    Deaths:
    186

    Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
    15,251
    Deaths:
    610

    Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

    Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

    Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

    They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4pm.
    They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

    The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

    I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

    I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

    Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.




    First up, most important thing out of the way, congrats on the Czech wife. Does she have any nice sisters or young lady friends she can point in my direction?




    Onto the meat of the issue, Czech Republic and Ireland were very close in the "rankings"/stats for the first couple of weeks (I noticed that because I have a good friend who lives there). In terms of numbers of infections that is. They managed to keep deaths to 0 for a fair bit longer. When I used to czech on worldometer (see what I did there?) they were hovering about 2 places ahead of Ireland. Well actually, they were next to Ireland in terms of infections for a while and then a couple of countries came in in the middle and then after another while Ireland eventually climbed over them.



    From my recollection, the also closed their borders and stopped flights first and told all their citizens to come home immediately very early on. That might have even been before Italian rugby and Cheltenham.





    The Czech people I have met have been very practical and responsible people. So I'd reckon that would have an impact too. I don't think you'd have the same "ah shure it'll be ok if just me doesn't follow the rules" kind of attitude that you'd see in some people here


  • #21
    the.red.baron
    Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    Slovakia are in a much better spot going by the stats


    Check them out


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gone Drinking wrote: »
    ..........
    They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us............

    That's significant, hugely if true.
    They didn't have thousands at Cheltenham either I would think.


  • #23
    rodDaly69
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭rodDaly69


    Danno wrote: »
    The death numbers are the most important metric of how your polices are working. The Czechs are miles better than us in this regard.

    Correct deaths are the most important number, but how are the Czech's declaring their covid deaths? Are they taking the Irish approach of declaring anyone who died while infected as a covid death, or the UK approach of only declaring covid positive deaths in certain circumstances?


  • #24
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    KindOfIrish wrote: »
    The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

    Wearing masks make a big difference. All the countries that are doing well have mandated mask wearing


  • #25
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    the.red.baron wrote: »
    Slovakia are in a much better spot going by the stats


    Check them out


    Only testing about 3000 per day but they did shut down very early.


  • #26
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Bsharp wrote: »
    Something that concerned me from the start of this pandemic is the prevalence of respiratory disease in ireland, when you read about it Ireland's death rate for these illnesses is almost 40% higher than the EU average. Not sure how this compares to Czech but it's not a good starting point no matter what way you look at it.

    Obesity is also an underlying condition. Our rate of obesity is amongst the highest in the world as far as I know.


  • #27
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Wearing masks make a big difference. All the countries that are doing well have mandated mask wearing
    In some ways I think that debate is pointless at this stage MY. There is a huge resistance to wearing masks here, for whatever reason, and even if you demonstrated the what should be very obvious risk reduction involved unless the authorities tell people to wear them it's not going to happen.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    In some ways I think that debate is pointless at this stage MY. There is a huge resistance to wearing masks here, for whatever reason, and even if you demonstrated the what should be very obvious risk reduction involved unless the authorities tell people to wear them it's not going to happen.

    Not least because, in my local Chemist, they're 2 euro a mask, which is designed for 1 use only- it's like that you should re-use it every day.


  • #29
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Binka wrote: »
    All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly).
    They're selling them and hand sanitiser in a few Spar shops in Dublin anyway. IIRC twelve quid for ten.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #30
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not least because, in my local Chemist, they're 2 euro a mask, which is designed for 1 use only- it's like that you should re-use it every day.
    Oh I hear that, but if you're not an essential worker you're only going shopping a couple of times a week for an hour at most, if you're a really slow shopper, then rotating them will get you far more use than two goes.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • #31
    the.red.baron
    Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭the.red.baron


    a_squirrelman wrote: »
    Only testing about 3000 per day but they did shut down very early.


    deaths are all that matters



    what are they doing right that the Czechs are doing wrong


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