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Now ye're talking - to an electric car driver

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 oceanfroggie


    One year in for us and it has been an almost seamless transition and completely painless. We've been practically everywhere in Ireland on a single charge (ie from Dublin) to places like Donegal, Kerry, Cork, Waterford, Galway, Limerick. From a driving perspective its very relaxing in ways I had not foreseen, but can accelerate like a bat out of hell if needed. We drive at 120kph on the motorways, so none of this urban legend nonsense about having to drive like a hearse with the heating off, etc.

    Range is down about 10-20% during the colder winter months, but we did Donegal on a single charge last Jan, and Kenmare in February on a single charge only stopping for rest room and quick coffee, no charging needed, and we had the heating well on including heated seats and heated steering wheel. Believe all the myths if you like, 'hydro carbon' interests have spend hundreds of millions sponsored many urban myths about BEVs in an attempt to slow down the rate of market transition from ICE to BEV.

    Cost savings are truly massive we only charge at home on night rate electricity twice a week, and about only 6 times in the past year used public charging infrastructure which was painless. We pay about €8/week now on extra electricity instead of €85/week on our previous diesel compact SUV. Another cost saving is virtually zero servicing costs compared to ICE, no brake ware due to non mechanical regenerative braking, no oil, no filters to change, a 100th of the no of mechanical moving parts so little to go wrong or service. Tyres are the only consumable item.

    Ok it wasn't all perfect, we had to give up a tow bar and give up AWD, but at least being front wheel drive with socks or chains or in our case winter tyres from Nov to March snow would be manageable had it happened. During summer months we achieve real world driving range of 500km around the greater Dublin area, and 440km on long motorway trips which was about 380km during winter months. Have not yet experienced a range issue and I'm happy to drive down to 1% confident in the range remaining data the GOM is displaying (Guess O'meter).

    I would never go back, my wife's next car will also be a BEV, not sure which make/model just yet except it will certainly NOT be a Nissan Leaf

    Pros
    • Massive running cost savings
    • Relaxing to drive
    • Quiet
    • No range issues
    • Refulling easy - happens while you sleep at home
    • Regen braking facilitates almost one pedal driving
    • Acceleration
    • Zero tail pipe emissions
    • Net low true emissions cause Irelands electricity grid is greener than most countries
    • AppleCar play using GoogleMaps and Waze integrates well
    • 8 year Battery warranty

    Cons
    • No tow bar
    • No 4x4, AWD
    • Marginally smaller than our former diesel SUV
    • You need to plan a little for long trips (>300km) but this becomes automatic second nature after a while

    There are many other myths about BEVs having net higher dust2dust CO2 foot prints, but these have been debunked. There are enough research papers out there executed by charitable scientific research foundations sponsored by big oil to wall paper the Aviva stadium. Ireland's electricity grid is close to averaging 50% wind with a target of 80% using French grid interconnector for the balance (ie CO2 zero nuclear), or when the wind doesn't blow enough.

    The legacy ICE manufacturers who don't keep pace with the now well established transition era risk becoming the next Nokia's.

    In truth I was really apprehensive when making the switch and wondered if I had made a big mistake until the first few long trips.

    Had also been a little concerned about battery degradation but based on real world data from existing base that has not been an issue. Mobile phone batteries have helped create this concern for battery lives. On recycling BEVs have no oils to dispose of, and battery packs get repurposed to domestic and commercial storage batteries. After that battery packs can be recycled and all the precious metals extracted and reused in manufacture of new battery packs. Battery technology continues to evolve in terms of density, power output/kg, with smart battery management systems including thermal management for better cold weather performance (ie <10ºC) and hot weather recharging speeds. Battery prices continue to fall exponentially approaching $100/kWh.

    Conclusion. Glad we did it, wife and son also going BEV. It does what it claims in the tin and none of the scare stories came to pass.

    Wished I'd done it a few years ago, its a no brainer. Take it or leave it, its a free world. Don't do it to save the planet, or because you feel climate change shamed by ranting nutters, rather do it to save your family money.

    PS: You gotta remember there is a war being waged out there right now by big oil and legacy ICE interests to delay or slow down the adoption to BEV. These interests are using micro targeting on social media and through the normal media seeding the market with FUD about EVs. The only truth is hybrids are a double con job on consumers and the marketing phrase used by some 'self charging' is a lie defying the laws of physics, newton and einstein. These are petrol cars with a tiny battery that cannot travel 50% of their distance in electric mode unless santa is real and elvis lives and physics has been reinvented by the tooth fairy


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Have you ever driven a tesla? If so how does it compare?

    Have you night rate electricity at home and would it be good enough (9 hrs) for a full charge?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee


    Mod: Deleted some posts. Please remember that an AMA is for the purpose of directing questions to a chosen participant. If you would like to get involved in a discussion about electric cars or hear further insights from owners/share your own experiences, please visit the Electric Vehicles & Hybrids forum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭BuboBubo


    Is the tesla the only car that can pull a small trailer? I occasionally pull a small single axle trailer with small loads. My petrol car does this very well.


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    2 - 280 Km (X2) Ioniqs Depending on time of year, weather etc... Funny enough found it to be wide and varied.

    So, LR is 280km. Is that average, best, worst?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Saving the environment seems to be a motivation for buying an electric car.
    Over 20% or Ireland's electricity is generated by coal burning Moneypoint.

    With more than a million electric cars sold a year is there a problem with the source of the electricity, with the recycling of batteries when the car is scrapped or when the battery get old, won't hold a charge as well, and is replaced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Moneypoint is rarely used these days and is due to be completely decommissioned by 2025, probably sooner as it's totally uneconomic.

    The wind blows at night same as it does during the day, this is ideal for EV charging at a time of low grid demand otherwise.

    I still think we should get a medium sized nuclear power plant.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Has the AMA guest abandoned ship?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Has the AMA guest abandoned ship?

    Maybe he's recharging......


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Has the AMA guest abandoned ship?

    Perhaps they've gone away for Easter hols?:P

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Have you ever driven a tesla? If so how does it compare?

    Have you night rate electricity at home and would it be good enough (9 hrs) for a full charge?

    Tesla is an amazing piece of kit but for me personally no I wouldn't buy one, mostly thats down to the current cost. For a 3rd of the money you can get something just as nice, thats far more practical.

    Regarding night rate, yes we do and would the cars charge fully on that, yes it would.


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    BuboBubo wrote: »
    Is the tesla the only car that can pull a small trailer? I occasionally pull a small single axle trailer with small loads. My petrol car does this very well.

    Currently yeah TESLA is the only one There are some coming such as RIVAN and the new Hyundai but they are while off.


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    LorenzoB wrote: »
    So, LR is 280km. Is that average, best, worst?

    Best and definitely only on summer driving. 200 210 would be the happy medium. I would out on it.


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    Saving the environment seems to be a motivation for buying an electric car.
    Over 20% or Ireland's electricity is generated by coal burning Moneypoint.

    With more than a million electric cars sold a year is there a problem with the source of the electricity, with the recycling of batteries when the car is scrapped or when the battery get old, won't hold a charge as well, and is replaced.

    In part agree and in part disagree with that statement for 3 reasons.

    1) If you look at how energy is generated, mechanical for cars and electrical for every day use which would you say is easier to clean, the exhaust from a car or a single stack from an energy generation plant.

    2) Air quality is made up of 2 parts (A) The particles in the air and second the CO2 levels. Again if you look back at part one you will see the point here and about cleaning the output.

    3) EV's are in the longer term part of a bigger solution with grid feed back and energy storage.

    While not ideal, I think in the longer run its the lesser of the 2 evils.


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    Moneypoint is rarely used these days and is due to be completely decommissioned by 2025, probably sooner as it's totally uneconomic.

    The wind blows at night same as it does during the day, this is ideal for EV charging at a time of low grid demand otherwise.

    I still think we should get a medium sized nuclear power plant.

    Money point is economically nonviable but unfortunately there is no alternative for it at the moment. It's nearly always running at peak capacity and with the way thing are going they will be lucky to have it decommissioned by 2030.

    Nuclear.... nnnoooo.... I see the benefits but I also dont want to glow in the dark.


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Has the AMA guest abandoned ship?

    Not quite Dr.Phil. Nuts weekend!!


  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Perhaps they've gone away for Easter hols?:P

    Christ I wish!! What a weekend of weather we had. :):):). Even playing catchup on work stuff right now!


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Best and definitely only on summer driving. 200 210 would be the happy medium. I would out on it.

    Appreciate the candid reply - it's like dentistry to get a straight or honest answer in the ev forum. Over there everything does 500km on a charge and all Dutch people drive Teslas :rolleyes:

    I had been considering Ioniq for next car, but not a chance at this range


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Money point is economically nonviable but unfortunately there is no alternative for it at the moment. It's nearly always running at peak capacity and with the way thing are going they will be lucky to have it decommissioned by 2030.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/esb-to-cut-jobs-at-coal-fired-moneypoint-power-plant-in-clare-1.3950579

    It was reported last year that ESB sought to make half of Moneypoint's staff redundant.
    ESB said an increasingly competitive energy market, the growing volume of renewables and the impact of carbon prices on Moneypoint output “has meant that Moneypoint is now running far less than previously and given these market fundamentals, a low-running regime is likely to persist into the future. The impact of these factors is that Moneypoint’s income has been significantly reduced.”

    https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2020/0220/1116576-moneypoint-esb-christian-aid/
    The ESB says generation at Moneypoint has "declined dramatically" over recent years.
    An ESB spokesman also said that the volume of coal purchased for Moneypoint dropped from 1 million tonnes in 2018 to 72,000 tonnes in 2019.

    ...........
    Nuclear.... nnnoooo.... I see the benefits but I also dont want to glow in the dark.

    Ah jaysus, that's as ignorant as anything I've ever heard an ICE driver say about EVs :(

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Company Representative Posts: 22 Verified rep I'm an EV driver, AMA


    Ah jaysus, that's as ignorant as anything I've ever heard an ICE driver say about EVs :(

    But Im not an ICE driver, haven't been for years. :-)

    On Moneypoint, there is the lipservice to the media and what is practical for the network. Currently it is not viable to get rid of it and wont be for a long time to come.

    But I am not here to talk about generation or grid stuff. I am here to talk about EVs :-)


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  • Moderators Posts: 12,352 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    If you could change one thing about EV driving in Ireland, what would it be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    But Im not an ICE driver, haven't been for years. :-)

    Well I had hoped you'd not spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt - common lobbyist tactic regardless of fact) about any form of power generation, seeing as though FUD is so commonly employed against EVs.
    On Moneypoint, there is the lipservice to the media and what is practical for the network. Currently it is not viable to get rid of it and wont be for a long time to come.

    It's not being got rid of (yet) but it's not being used much, either. The point is that one of the common FUD points against EVs (they're fuelled by nasty coal burning Moneypoint) is not true. Especially at night when most EVs charge, wind is a huge contributor to the grid.
    But I am not here to talk about generation or grid stuff. I am here to talk about EVs :-)

    Generation and grid are used, or misused, as sticks to beat EV adoption with. Some potential adopters will be swayed by that, others will only consider the practicalities of ownership and costs and that is fine. Some EV owners are evangelists, some are practicalists, neither of them is wrong, but everyone needs to be aware of the myths touted as fact by vested interests, and FUD from motoring journalists who are often both ignorant and invested in the status quo.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    How much in total have you spent on cars in the last 5 years just in purchase price alone of cars?

    Only asking because any EV owners I know dont realize actually how much they are spending on cars and tend to spend a lot more on them than the average family. Forever upgrading and spending more money on top.

    Whereas if you take us for example we have changed both cars once in the last 5 years at a cost of €10k plus €3k tradeins so €13k altogether.

    My friend Bought a new Nissan Leaf for about €35K 5 years ago, then traded it in for an electric Kona last year. Not sure what extra he paid but well over €20k and now he wants to trade that up to a Tesla. And thats not even including that his wife now wants an electric Kona too. She has an 8 year old Prius at the moment, so hasnt changed in the last 5 years so not counting that. I figure in the last 5 years he has spent over 50K on his has alone, never mind after they make their next change and the wife gets hers too. Eye watering.

    He justifies it by saying how much he got in grants and saves in tax and fuel etc. Its nowhere near his up front spend cost. And the figures he paid are after grants were applied.

    So in purchase price of cars im curious as to what has your family spent in the last 5 years?


  • Moderators Posts: 12,352 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    How much in total have you spent on cars in the last 5 years just in purchase price alone of cars?

    Only asking because any EV owners I know dont realize actually how much they are spending on cars and tend to spend a lot more on them than the average family. Forever upgrading and spending more money on top.

    Whereas if you take us for example we have changed both cars once in the last 5 years at a cost of €10k plus €3k tradeins so €13k altogether.

    My friend Bought a new Nissan Leaf for about €35K 5 years ago, then traded it in for an electric Kona last year. Not sure what extra he paid but well over €20k and now he wants to trade that up to a Tesla. And thats not even including that his wife now wants an electric Kona too. She has an 8 year old Prius at the moment, so hasnt changed in the last 5 years so not counting that. I figure in the last 5 years he has spent over 50K on his has alone, never mind after they make their next change and the wife gets hers too. Eye watering.

    He justifies it by saying how much he got in grants and saves in tax and fuel etc. Its nowhere near his up front spend cost. And the figures he paid are after grants were applied.

    So in purchase price of cars im curious as to what has your family spent in the last 5 years?

    Likely the same question would apply to any car owner. Some people just renew their cars frequently, so it's not an EV centric issue. They do cost more than ICE cars though, so that is a factor.

    FWIW, last year I had owned my old Passat for 7 years and planned on spending about 20k+ on a new car. I didn't know what that car was, but I knew that price would get me something relatively new, pretty nice, and a few new toys too. When I realised all my options were diesel, and my mileage is tiny (commute is like 6km) I started checking out electric. Got a 2017 ioniq for 23k about a year ago. That's in around what I was planning on spending anyways, full of new toys, a game changer in driving comfort and saving about a grand annually Vs the Passat.

    13000km since I bought it, and my charge point at the house says I've used 1100 kWh @~9cent in that time = €100 on fuel. 120 on tax. Due a service soon, but thinking that'll be <€100. About €50 spent charging on the public systems. Thems my expenses for a year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Likely the same question would apply to any car owner. Some people just renew their cars frequently, so it's not an EV centric issue. They do cost more than ICE cars though, so that is a factor.

    FWIW, last year I had owned my old Passat for 7 years and planned on spending about 20k+ on a new car. I didn't know what that car was, but I knew that price would get me something relatively new, pretty nice, and a few new toys too. When I realised all my options were diesel, and my mileage is tiny (commute is like 6km) I started checking out electric. Got a 2017 ioniq for 23k about a year ago. That's in around what I was planning on spending anyways, full of new toys, a game changer in driving comfort and saving about a grand annually Vs the Passat.

    13000km since I bought it, and my charge point at the house says I've used 1100 kWh @~9cent in that time = €100 on fuel. 120 on tax. Due a service soon, but thinking that'll be <€100. About €50 spent charging on the public systems. Thems my expenses for a year.


    What I mean is that I have a quite a few friends who are now EV people which is good and I probably will go that route myself. But when I compare what they spend on cars now to what they have over the years it is huge. 300 - 400% more since they went electric.


    Once they would have been happy with 10K every 3 years or so. Now its a new car every 3 years, or a VERY expensive second hand EV for 2 years. Their spending has skyrocketed. OK so theyve cheaper fuel and tax, but not nearly as much as the extra they are paying upfront with their new "hobby". The numbers are frightening.


  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Mark
    Boards.ie Employee


    Mod: Just a reminder that if you would like to discuss electric vehicles and your own thoughts or experiences, please visit the dedicated forum: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1634. If you'd like to ask our AMA guest their opinions and experiences (which may differ from someone else's or indeed from your own), then this is the thread for that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Mod: Just a reminder that if you would like to discuss electric vehicles and your own thoughts or experiences, please visit the dedicated forum: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1634. If you'd like to ask our AMA guest their opinions and experiences (which may differ from someone else's or indeed from your own), then this is the thread for that.




    Very sorry. I thought it was the OP who answered my question so i was just clarifying it to him what i meant in the question.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭youngblood


    Today newbie when it comes to electric cars, say I'm visiting a friend/relative down the country from charge points, can I bring a plug and charge there? Is it that frowned upon with electric Cost, running cable from house etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭youngblood


    WTF happened this AMA????


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  • Boards.ie Employee Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Niamh
    Boards.ie Community Manager


    youngblood wrote: »
    WTF happened this AMA????

    I guess the battery died :pac:

    I'll check in with the OP and see if it's done or if he has time to come back and reply to the last few posts. Thanks for the reminder, youngblood.


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