Wrestlemania 2020 - Spoilers, rumours, etc

06-04-2020 03:43PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Well what is wrestling to you? Because any of the aspects that Id associate with wrestling were not present for the Taker/Wyatt matches. And honestly if you enjoy that stuff that's fine, but calling it wrestling is misleading, calling it great wrestling is straight dumb.

If it were the Hardy stuff on Impact or AEW Id laugh at it and move on, but Wrestlemania reaches the casuals and God it is embarrassing trying to justify that to somebody not in the wrestling bubble. I don't follow the WWE product very closely anymore but that company detests their own fanbase so much.

I'd never limit myself. I watch most things. I watch some Euro stuff, I watch some American indies stuff (which is, to be fair, these days is by and large the same irony stuff as those two matches)I watch some joshi, I watch mid level puro, I watch top level puro, I watch AEW, I watch bits of WWE. I take all of it for what it is. But when you are doing nether-realm stuff, when you've got transporting dead people, you lose me a bit. When that's your 2 big matches at your biggest show of the year and the other 2 big matches are a combined 10 minutes of finisher spamming then I'm sorry but your company is downright trash and honestly I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion who tries to put a different spin on it.

Wrestling to me now is the same as it was to me when I started watching it. Mindless escapism with phenomenal athletes and strong superheros doing extraordinary things through story telling and in ring action.

If wrestling is something you feel the need to justify towards "the casuals" then perhaps you take wrestling a little too seriously.

As for wwe detesting their own fanbase, I disagree.

But as you said, you like plenty of other wrestling promotions (most I haven't heard of) and have little interest in WWE. Seems odd that you would seem so angry about their output.

The criticism of this show being Wrestlemania and not having stellar main events would be valid if it weren't for the fact that we are in strange times and we realistically have no idea how the show would have worked out.

Granted, could have (probably would have), been similar but I'm willing to congratulate them on a fantastic show under an enormous amount of limitations.

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 03:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrestling to me now is the same as it was to me when I started watching it. Mindless escapism with phenomenal athletes and strong superheros doing extraordinary things through story telling and in ring action.

If wrestling is something you feel the need to justify towards "the casuals" then perhaps you take wrestling a little too seriously.

As for wwe detesting their own fanbase, I disagree.

But as you said, you like plenty of other wrestling promotions (most I haven't heard of) and have little interest in WWE. Seems odd that you would seem so angry about their output.

The criticism of this show being Wrestlemania and not having stellar main events would be valid if it weren't for the fact that we are in strange times and we realistically have no idea how the show would have worked out.

Granted, could have (probably would have), been similar but I'm willing to congratulate them on a fantastic show under an enormous amount of limitations.

The need to justify it to casuals isn't up to me, that's something the company desperately need to do if they are going to stop losing viewers, and especially if they are going to try to sell their ppvs for 60 dollars each month. Thing is, nobody, or almost nobody, roots for WWE to be bad. A strong WWE is good for wrestling as a whole. But it's so bad, the bar of what is good and what isn't has never been lower.

Honestly even though I have like no emotional investment in that company, when they put on a 2 night show and all of their big 5 matches are duds then ye I'm gonna be a little bit annoyed. Like I said, just don't run the show! There's so many reasons not to run the show. There's so many ways to do empty arena wrestling and make it good. They do none of it (apart from change the hard cam position) they just plough on and you end up with a badly edited mess.

But I've ploughed too many hours into it already from watching to thing to talking about it, the "go watch UFC" take earlier annoyed me to talking about it on this thread. Just because somebody hated amateur theater hour in WWE that doesn't mean that person should stop watching wrestling. Awful take and that was my main purpose here.

JP Liz V1 · 06-04-2020 04:09PM

beakerjoe wrote: »

This sums up Mania for me.

It did well considering the dire situation.

BTW I enjoyed the Nikki Bella dig at Cena, Cena is a good sport.

What did Nikki say? Was she there on commentary?

gerrybbadd · 06-04-2020 04:43PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

2 members of the 3MB are/were world title holders

Aye, we know.

1 member of The New Day was as well.

gerrybbadd · 06-04-2020 04:44PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

What did Nikki say? Was she there on commentary?

No Liz, Bray sang a couple words from her theme song during the segment.

06-04-2020 04:44PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

The need to justify it to casuals isn't up to me, that's something the company desperately need to do if they are going to stop losing viewers, and especially if they are going to try to sell their ppvs for 60 dollars each month. Thing is, nobody, or almost nobody, roots for WWE to be bad. A strong WWE is good for wrestling as a whole. But it's so bad, the bar of what is good and what isn't has never been lower.

Honestly even though I have like no emotional investment in that company, when they put on a 2 night show and all of their big 5 matches are duds then ye I'm gonna be a little bit annoyed. Like I said, just don't run the show! There's so many reasons not to run the show. There's so many ways to do empty arena wrestling and make it good. They do none of it (apart from change the hard cam position) they just plough on and you end up with a badly edited mess.

But I've ploughed too many hours into it already from watching to thing to talking about it, the "go watch UFC" take earlier annoyed me to talking about it on this thread. Just because somebody hated amateur theater hour in WWE that doesn't mean that person should stop watching wrestling. Awful take and that was my main purpose here.

My "go watch UFC" comment was towards someone who said he was going to watch aew because he was ashamed. If you are ashamed of wrestling not being realistic and sometimes fantastical, then yeah, you should probably go watch a non predetermined form of physical entertainment.

If his opinion was "I absolutely hated that part", I'd have no issue. It's the "I'm so ashamed and I am not going to watch ever again because it's not grown up enough for me" attitude that is more embarrassing for a man in his mid thirties.

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 05:03PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A suspension of logic would also include the fact that the wrestlers aren't being bruised, cut or killed. Or that "hulking up" is a thing. Or the fact that men who can perform Spanish fly's or moonsaults suddenly can't climb an 8 foot ladder under a minute?

Logic goes out the window in nearly every match, but so what? It's good sh*t mostly.

If you didn't enjoy it, that's absolutely fine. It won't be for everyone. But as a man in your mid thirties to be ashamed of it and say you wont watch it anymore because of shame is a little sad considering all the other logical fallacies you have struggled through.

It’s not sad really. If a viewer has any semblance of intelligence, they don’t want it insulted with childish tropes. That I am bothered about that, and that you are not, speaks louder volumes of you, than it does of me. If it didn’t, us adults would be perfectly happy tuning into Peppa Pig on a daily basis.

Insect Overlord · 06-04-2020 05:16PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

It’s not sad really. If a viewer has any semblance of intelligence, they don’t want it insulted with childish tropes. That I am bothered about that, and that you are not, speaks louder volumes of you, than it does of me. If it didn’t, us adults would be perfectly happy tuning into Peppa Pig on a daily basis.

Says the lad who's never posted here before today. :rolleyes: Jog on.

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 05:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My "go watch UFC" comment was towards someone who said he was going to watch aew because he was ashamed. If you are ashamed of wrestling not being realistic and sometimes fantastical, then yeah, you should probably go watch a non predetermined form of physical entertainment.

If his opinion was "I absolutely hated that part", I'd have no issue. It's the "I'm so ashamed and I am not going to watch ever again because it's not grown up enough for me" attitude that is more embarrassing for a man in his mid thirties.

I think you are referring to me but I never said I was going to go watch AEW, you are mixing me up with someone else. They are at the same crack from what I hear, though on a lesser stage. Lots of serious people around the wrestling business (I emphasise serious) don’t like this artificial, supernatural stuff. Cornette hates it, Meltzer didn’t like it last night, Bret and Michaels always hated wrestlers having second jobs like dentists and bin men: this is all in that same bracket. I don’t get why you are embarrassed by me being embarrassed. If someone feels their intelligence has been insulted, it has been insulted. Aside from the childish segments, the stripped back nature of this show brought it home to me how much I’ve gone off wrestling, probably for ever. The matches were dull, cumbersome and overly choreographed. The wrestlers mannerisms are so stage managed now and range from really odd looking poses on the ramp to excessive screams of pain and gyrations for meaningless moves to playing to a crowd that wasn’t even there. I’ve never seen wrestling in this way and I really didn’t like what I saw.

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 05:25PM

Peppa Pig isnt half bad once you get past the fat shaming of Daddy Pig.

Seriously though the Cena Wyatt battle wasnt a match and it certainly didnt insult the viewers intellence. WWE regularly insults its viewers in many ways but the Cena Wyatt segment is not an example.

Many have enjoyed it, some haven't. My take is that its the best thing involving Wyatt in a long time. Wyatt and the Fiend gimmick got a much needed boost and hats off to Cena for doing the job..... if you can call it that.

Anyway I enjoyed it for what it was.

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 05:25PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Says the lad who's never posted here before today. :rolleyes: Jog on.

The fck are you on about? Of what relevance is that?

sky88 · 06-04-2020 05:29PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I hope for your sake your casual friends are representative of the rest of society because I think the ratings are about to hit a slump even worse than the normal post Mania season.

My housemates watched the Taker one, laughed for a couple of minutes, it went way too long and I spent the next hour assuring them they aren't living with a social deviant and I don't watch this stuff regularly.

i hope for your sake you and your housemates they dont judge people on what they watch.

06-04-2020 05:31PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

It’s not sad really. If a viewer has any semblance of intelligence, they don’t want it insulted with childish tropes. That I am bothered about that, and that you are not, speaks louder volumes of you, than it does of me. If it didn’t, us adults would be perfectly happy tuning into Peppa Pig on a daily basis.

Your analogy is only eclipsed in stupidity by your attitude. I'm not bothered about a few childish segments or segments I don't care about because, as a man in his mid thirties myself, I know I am not the only demographic watching and may have to watch things that aren't tailored for me.

Your analogy would make sense if I was tuning into Peppa pig on a daily basis because some of it was tailored for people my age. It isn't. It's aimed for children. Wrestling is for all ages, which is why I watched it with my 8 year old and had a great time all around.

The bang of entitlement of being offended and ashamed of childish tropes. For **** sake lads, we are waiting up until 4am watching wrestling. We are childish tropes.

Wrestling, whether we like to admit it or not, is childish in nature. It is preposterous and ridiculous. But I love it. Yes, there are some things I don't like, but would I be ashamed of a wrestling company as a whole because of a couple of segments or main even fights I didn't like?

Of course not.

Peppa pig is ****e by the way.

06-04-2020 05:35PM

sky88 wrote: »

i hope for your sake you and your housemates they dont judge people on what they watch.

This is it exactly. People are too precious about what is essentially a form of entertainment. "What will my friends think?", "How can I explain this?".

**** it. If you are ashamed of watching wrestling because of bray Wyatt or by a dick flip or by choppy choppy pee pee, then that's on you. I guarantee the ****ers you are embarrassed in front of watch love island or Gogglebox.

Rock Lesnar · 06-04-2020 05:37PM

I have not watched so im guessing there wasnt much 'wrestling' in the matches concerned, maybe the matches were so gimic'd because undertaker cant wrestle like he used to and certainly not against Styles, and maybe because Cena is now involved in movies, he didnt want to get injured.

Sometimes in wrestling we over analyse stuff sure it may not have made sense, but just see them for what they are, wwe needed Cena and Taker there, and they needed to protect them.

I may be waaaaaaaay off the mark, as like i said, i didnt watch

Insect Overlord · 06-04-2020 05:39PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

The fck are you on about? Of what relevance is that?

You're on a Pro Wrestling forum the day after Wrestlemania, the biggest event on the wrestling calendar in the Western hemisphere, trying to tell us what we should and shouldn't enjoy, despite the fact that you've never contributed to a discussion here before. What were you saying earlier about "suspension of logic"?

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 05:47PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

You're on a Pro Wrestling forum the day after Wrestlemania, the biggest event on the wrestling calendar in the Western hemisphere, trying to tell us what we should and shouldn't enjoy, despite the fact that you've never contributed to a discussion here before. What were you saying earlier about "suspension of logic"?

Sorry again but what is your point? And I didn’t tell you not to enjoy it. I just said I thought it was some of the worst, most childish pile of garbage I’ve ever wasted my time watching. I mean I thought it got so bad, it warranted further watching but that seems to strike a nerve with you and others. If you could care less about my view, why not let it slip away and be satisfied that you, in fact, enjoyed your viewing.

06-04-2020 05:53PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

it was some of the worst, most childish pile of garbage I’ve ever wasted my time watching. I mean I thought it got so bad, it warranted further watching

If you could care less about my view, why not let it slip away and be satisfied that you, in fact, enjoyed your viewing.

Very contradictory sentence. You thought the childish pile of garbage you were wasting your time on was so bad that you'd continue watching it.....

If ever there was a sentence that deserved a "says more about you", this is it.

And the pedantic in me wants to point out that the phrase is "couldn't care less"

CastorTroy · 06-04-2020 06:04PM

Well I enjoyed that. Smiling throughout the funhouse "match". The previous forms of Cena, How different his hair is from before and to go back to a previous comparison, nice remake of Ernest Scared Stupid.

When Bianca came out for the Street Profits, they seemed reluctant to mention she was Montez's wife.

Twice the crowd were missed in the past few days: The reveal of Dolph and Sonya conspiring and the kiss.

I skip through quickly enough in parts in 10 second jumps so was more obvious how slow the ref counts. Like in the Edge/Orton match, the ref would start, I would skip and he would only be at 4. I'm guessing they had a wee break when they went off camera and couldn't blame them. After listening to Edge on his doc, I'd say Beth wasn't pleased with some of the stuff he did.

I'm not a fan of Goldberg being champion but Braun winning in an empty arena isn't nice and that's ignoring the fact there wasn't even any build to the match.

Also not a fan of Charlotte winning. There are some like Finn that benefit by going back to NXT, but Charlotte will probably hold the title for a while now and she doesn't need to. The Snickers ad later on in the night just showed how big she has got over the years. Can be distracting.

Necro · 06-04-2020 06:26PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I hope for your sake your casual friends are representative of the rest of society because I think the ratings are about to hit a slump even worse than the normal post Mania season.

My housemates watched the Taker one, laughed for a couple of minutes, it went way too long and I spent the next hour assuring them they aren't living with a social deviant and I don't watch this stuff regularly.

Aye, the ratings are definitely about to slump given it's likely going to be a total shutdown.

Seriously, if people are judging you on what you watch you probably need new housemates/friends tbh.

Rock77 · 06-04-2020 06:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

**** it. I'm rewinding to watch that again immediately. I'll watch the Brock match later.

My favourite ever 15mins of wrestling. This has been an amazing mania. Considering the circumstances, it may be up there with the very best.

Ah here....

06-04-2020 07:08PM

I really dislike the empty arena production the WWE have, the 'hear a pin drop' style so I skipped most of the actual matches. Hated the two big title fights, they just remind me of when you'd play Smackdown 2 and everyone starts with 5 finishers. On that note I might actually go back and watch the other matches sometime with some of the fight music from that game in the background, might make it bearable

Didn't enjoy the Boneyard match so much, it's wasn't awful, but it just had the feeling of a low budget Sons of Anarchy ripoff. Very much enjoyed watching the Firefly Funhouse though.. I really enjoyed the original Matt Hardy stuff too though.. I think if you're going to go do that stuff don't half ass it and they certainly didn't. So many references and callbacks in there and it felt a bit like a John Cena career retrospective at the start.

Itssoeasy · 06-04-2020 07:16PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Sorry again but what is your point? And I didn’t tell you not to enjoy it. I just said I thought it was some of the worst, most childish pile of garbage I’ve ever wasted my time watching. I mean I thought it got so bad, it warrantedg further watching but that seems to strike a nerve with you and others. If you could care less about my view, why not let it slip away and be satisfied that you, in fact, enjoyed your viewing.

Than you should have watched something else then. Why are you trying to inject logic into pro wrestling ?

Rock77 · 06-04-2020 07:45PM

It’s all about preference and opinion really, I never liked a last man standing match or the buried alive thing. It’s like the bad part of a normal match (both men pretending they are out on their feet just throwing silly punches at each other)

I like the near falls, high flying, technical wrestling and most importantly as I found out this weekend the atmosphere in the stadium..

It was better than I thought it would be but in my opinion it wasn’t as good as some episodes of RAW.

Ridley · 06-04-2020 08:43PM

I enjoyed Wyatt/Cena though it was somewhat tainted by Cena's gurning. The one time in a wrestling ring that he needs to be acting. :pac:

The empty arena was a mixed bag. Works for fights like Owens/Rollins and Orton/Edge but, for exmple, Asuka's yelling undiluted was something of chore.

Otis/Ziggler one of the most personal WrestleMania matches right before Orton/Edge. Alrighty.

COVID-19 situation would be useful for the absentee champions but I've been done with Lesnar's brief encounters since the freshness wore off after his first returning monster run. Both worlds champ long overdue for me. Don't go back. Put 24/7 belt on Lesnar.

ThePott wrote: »

Hoping Night 2 opens with an In Memoriam of AJ Styles

See, that would have made the boneyard match worth it. Just a picture of his hand above ground. However, some people thought Mr McMahon had been blown up on live TV.

Loughc · 06-04-2020 08:53PM

Have to say the start to the Edge Orton match was perfect. The RKO from behind. Just beautifully executed.

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 10:52PM

Ridley wrote: »

I enjoyed Wyatt/Cena though it was somewhat tainted by Cena's gurning. The one time in a wrestling ring that he needs to be acting. :pac:

Deae god yes, it didn't ruin it for me but it was a noteable negative to the segment. When he walked out ala Hogan he did it sooo much and it was unnecessary. I still ate it up though

snoopboggybog · 06-04-2020 10:57PM

Hopefully end of Brock and Goldberg now as champions and a new era begins.

I can't take Goldberg's quick spears anymore and the length of the matches.

Probably the same for Brock really, looks to have no interest in long matches, just the pay day.

Hopefully the start of something new.

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 11:04PM

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Hopefully end of Brock and Goldberg now as champions and a new era begins.

I can't take Goldberg's quick spears anymore and the length of the matches.

Probably the same for Brock really, looks to have no interest in long matches, just the pay day.

Hopefully the start of something new.

The problem isnt Brock, its the booking. It was 3 months ago he was booked to perfection at the Rumble.

He and Drew are capable of more. Who ever planned the match was at fault.

Goldberg cant cut it. Have the Fiend end him to get his heat back and let the old bastard retire.

Braun needs some serious rehabbing. He was so cold going in and hes been poorly booked in the last year.

Monokne · 06-04-2020 11:33PM

I find it strange that Brock is excused for the short, formulaic matches he has done over and over for years, but when Bill has the same matches, the heat goes on him, particularly given Brock's best friend is the booker and has heavy input in his matches. It's almost like Brock just wants to get in & get out.

Wrestlemania 2020 - Spoilers, rumours, etc

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