Wrestlemania 2020 - Spoilers, rumours, etc

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 11:26AM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The Boneyard match was not comedy.

The Firefly Funhouse match had elements of comedy, but it was utterly surreal and laced with so much wrestling self-reference that it can never be reduced to a single label like that.

Brock and Drew did what they had to do for the occasion. They'll build it up to give them a proper match when the real world stops being so f*cking bizarre.

Ok so you're in the room, you see the final cut of the Boneyard match, what do you think the reaction to it will be? Seriously now, to a normal person who hears about this, sees a clip of it ect. what do you think their reaction to it is? The silly lighting, the beyond bad dialogue, the transportation, the spinning druid scene, the firebolts and then topped off with Style hand coming out of the grave. Like all the Hardy stuff, it's done for laughs mate. Every person in that room knows what the reaction to this will be. Novelty, laughed off by casual public, defended vehemently by their hardcore fanbase who will literally support anything that isn't a wrestling match apparently. If you're doing something for the purpose of laughs, which all the Hardy stuff was too, then it's comedy.

Dude this wasn't some genre-bending artistic masterpiece! it was self-congratulating (almost wrote a different word there) crap with nostalgia hoping to pop their fanbase. Base level entertainment that somehow managed to not even abide by it's own canon.

Every big time WWE main event is this and has been for a while. Finisher spamming. No psychology. First couple of times ok cool, there's a novelty to it, but its expected now and the two title matches at Mania were identical matches! How do you have a company with that many road agents, eyeballs looking at this stuff and nobody says "gee maybe we should lay one of these out a bit differently."

Wuff Wuff · 06-04-2020 11:27AM

watched the Boneyard Match, The Firefly Fun House Match and Drew Brock,

Hats off to WWE, it was entertaining given the circumstances and limitations

bennyl10 · 06-04-2020 11:28AM

What did people really expect from the funhouse match.
This is a demonic figure, who has puppets that he talks to?

Wrestling, to me at least, is all storytelling. And this was the greatest storytelling we have seen in WWE in ages

Watched a follow up to last night. On the funhouse

Bray makes cena face his failures
1.ruthless aggression, he misses the punch that launched his career, over and over again. Bray sings the Bella tune. All of cena’s greatest things fall apart. He had failed to be anything.

We go to Johnny Largemeat. If Agression doesn’t work, fine I’ll do exactly what Vinny Mac loves, the ‘good ****’ big Arms, built like a tank.
It still doesn’t work.

Doctor of Thuganomics, all he can do is rap, but it works, he’s getting somewhere, and then Bray hits back with home truths. Maybe it just isn’t meant to be?

Bischoff, NWO, Cena introduced as the heel. He’s getting somewhere. He finally has Bray. But. No. He is beating up a poor defenceless pig boy. He’s turned and what has it got him? Admiration, but at what cost?

Like fine that’s my view, but I absolutely adored that!!

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 12:18PM

The Funhouse wasnt a match, but it was entertaining and genuinely interesting. It was way better than any match Cena and Wyatt could throw together with the Fiend involved.

I loved it. It wasnt a 5 star match, but I felt it was fun enjoyable way to put Wyatt over Cena.

06-04-2020 12:18PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

What rubbish. Suspension of disbelief should not have to extend to the suspension of logic and the realms of what is not possible. Obviously we’ve had that with Taker for three decades but there was always that thought in the back of your mind that he was playing some sort of mind game with his competitor. The Funhouse segment was pure child-orientated garbage, plane and simple. Pro wrestling is supposed to be a simulated athletic contest that can be enhanced by added narrative. What we were served up at this Wrestlemania, couldn’t be credible presented in a B movie, straight to DVD release. How in the name of Christ did this get through so many layers of decision makers, including Cena and Wyatt themselves? Did nobody feel this would be damaging to wrestling’s already questionable credibility? I’m ashamed as a man in my mid-30s, I stayed up to watch this garbage on night 1. It is a relief that I didn’t do so in night 2. So, so, so painfully bad.

Credibility? I'm sorry, what credibility?

The funhouse segment was childish? But was the fiend ok a couple of weeks ago? The guy in the mask and striped trousers that gave everybody spookums? That was ok?

What about people kicking lumps out of each other on a weekly basis but rarely being bruised? Is that not too far fetched?

If you are ashamed to watch wrestling because it's not believable, or have managed to convince yourself that wrestling is credible or legitimate outside of entertainment value value, that's on you. A simulated athletic contest enhanced by a narrative? Sorry man, it's the other way around.

Wrestling is entertainment.

You are ashamed that as a man in your mid thirties you stayed up because the man who usually exists in a fantasy realm, didn't come to the ring in a mask, carrying the head of his former self as a lantern and fight against a film star?

I think if you are ashamed by the absurdity of any wrestling, you may not be fully aware how absurd your "credible" wrestling is.

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 12:31PM

bennyl10 wrote: »

What did people really expect from the funhouse match.
This is a demonic figure, who has puppets that he talks to?

Wrestling, to me at least, is all storytelling. And this was the greatest storytelling we have seen in WWE in ages

Watched a follow up to last night. On the funhouse

Bray makes cena face his failures
1.ruthless aggression, he misses the punch that launched his career, over and over again. Bray sings the Bella tune. All of cena’s greatest things fall apart. He had failed to be anything.

We go to Johnny Largemeat. If Agression doesn’t work, fine I’ll do exactly what Vinny Mac loves, the ‘good ****’ big Arms, built like a tank.
It still doesn’t work.

Doctor of Thuganomics, all he can do is rap, but it works, he’s getting somewhere, and then Bray hits back with home truths. Maybe it just isn’t meant to be?

Bischoff, NWO, Cena introduced as the heel. He’s getting somewhere. He finally has Bray. But. No. He is beating up a poor defenceless pig boy. He’s turned and what has it got him? Admiration, but at what cost?

Like fine that’s my view, but I absolutely adored that!!

Yeah, it's great as an isolated piece of performance art. This stuff is supposed to mesh with the fabric of the reality we live in to give it believability. Please do not mistake reality for logic. Reality can be suspended, logic certainly cannot. This provided neither.

06-04-2020 12:33PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Yeah, it's great as an isolated piece of performance art. This stuff is supposed to mesh with the fabric of the reality we live in to give it believability. Please do not mistake reality for logic. Reality can be suspended, logic certainly cannot. This provided neither.

Wut?

Suspending reality is ok but suspending logic isn't?

You've just broken your own rule mate.

Lord TSC · 06-04-2020 12:48PM

Much like the Boneyard match, I adored the Funhouse match. Like, it was like something written by someone who had snorted ALL of the cocaine, but it was entertaining.

The matches over both nights where the wrestlers tried to do normal matches without a crowd all fell short, imo. The matches that tried to build their matches around that worked. Not just the Boneyard and Funhouse matches, but I thought the Last Man Standing was really good too, because they realised they weren't limited by staying in the ring.

Whatever happens, however long it takes, I hope we get more of these cinematic "matches" in the future. It was such a great breath of fresh air.

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 01:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Credibility? I'm sorry, what credibility?

The funhouse segment was childish? But was the fiend ok a couple of weeks ago? The guy in the mask and striped trousers that gave everybody spookums? That was ok?

What about people kicking lumps out of each other on a weekly basis but rarely being bruised? Is that not too far fetched?

If you are ashamed to watch wrestling because it's not believable, or have managed to convince yourself that wrestling is credible or legitimate outside of entertainment value value, that's on you. A simulated athletic contest enhanced by a narrative? Sorry man, it's the other way around.

Wrestling is entertainment.

You are ashamed that as a man in your mid thirties you stayed up because the man who usually exists in a fantasy realm, didn't come to the ring in a mask, carrying the head of his former self as a lantern and fight against a film star?

I think if you are ashamed by the absurdity of any wrestling, you may not be fully aware how absurd your "credible" wrestling is.

Your take is that wrestling sucks so we shouldn't even try.

My take is that you hate wrestling.

Insect Overlord · 06-04-2020 01:25PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Your take is that wrestling sucks so we shouldn't even try.

My take is that you hate wrestling.

Takes are for edgelords on Twitter.

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 01:27PM

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Takes are for edgelords on Twitter.

Or they can just be easy summarised points. Hating everything about wrestling and advocating for more funhouse stuff though was quite the take.

Itssoeasy · 06-04-2020 01:39PM

Charlotte and rhea was a good match and if charlotte winning gets her away from the raw and smackdown title then okay.

Aleisteir black and lashley was kind of there and I don't dislike the two guys it wasn't as good as it should have been.

The Otis and dolph match was everything it should have been and Sonya and Mandy looked well and Mandy and Otis at the end was the one moment that suffered from no crowd.

It seems I'm in the minority that liked the edge vs Orton match bar the length of it which I've seen two different times for the match which you'd think would be easy.
The raw tag match was kind of a buffer match but nothing bad really.

The fatal five way match for the smackdown women's title was okay except I think Lacey Evans should have won but at least it wasn't Sasha banks.

The firefly funhouse match I'll have to rewatch in daylight because doing it in the middle of the night after a few beverages was mental. It was really well done though.

The main event as I said was fine but again the end needed a crowd as it's a big moment.

Loughc · 06-04-2020 01:47PM

J. Marston wrote: »

I went the mistake of going on Reddit and apparently Meltzer called that match "Chinese water torture".

How that guy is held in such high regard, I will never understand. Fúcking gowl.

Completely agree, if AEW produced it he would be tossing himself off on the AEW belt while screaming 7 stars.

J. Marston wrote: »

"It's childish."

"I'll be sticking with AEW."

The same AEW that had Matt Hardy teleporting around the arena recently?

And again fact.

nasty_crash · 06-04-2020 01:48PM

Ok.... watched the 2 nights and have to say there was so many highlights and great performances dispite the current situation. Wrestling in front of empty rooms was just so weird and took a while to get used to.

Have to say I enoyed Tom Phillips commentary (even carrying Saxton) vs Cole and JBL. Thought he didnt over talk for the sake of talking.

I knew that Goldberg & Braun would have been booked as it is was - Goldberg doesnt have it anymore and he certainly wont get carried by Braun so that match I was always expecting. Hate the booking of Braun tho - Intercontenial Champ 3 weeks ago - looses it - now he is Champ! Stuff of legend that!

Brock vs Drew i was so disappointed by as both are talented wrestlers, and the writing was just so lazy - 3 F5's vs 4 Claymores..... URGH - such a waste.

Boneyard Match - Taker needs to wrestle like this in the future - it made him look strong and the best we seen him in years - there was wrestling & entertainment in the match - Teleporting can be effective and look 'cool' but it has to be backed up by wrestling - which i think there was plenty of content in this match - so whilst i didnt love it - i thought it was solid

Firefly sh!thouse - hated it from start to finish - yeah the pops at the WWE machine werent lost on me, but its WRESTLEMANIA - there has to be wrestling content somewhere - watching 20 mins of everything that we have said about Cena, Vince & WWE on boards for the last 10-12 years just wasnt entertaining in my opinion. Bray is hardly a genius when we have all being saying those things about Cena for years. After Goldberg smashing the Fiend and now Cena getting squashed against the Fiend..... like how does that make sense?

Edge & Orton - beat the heads of each other - 2 of them have great chemistry! Edge looked strong throughout and these lads can really tell a story - good match

Rhea & Charlotte - Great match - surprised by the ending. One of my favourite matches of the weekend. Was disappointed they changed Rhea's look..... why? Turning her true face?

Fatal 5 Way - really smart booking - i enjoyed this match from start to finish and enjoyed the way it ended - Think Sasha and Bayley for Summerslam is a cert

Otis & Ziggler - this was a Classic Mid Card Comedy match - done perfectly! Was never going to be the best match of the weekend but it was a solid part of the lineup and played its part

Black & Lashley - total filler - no proper build on this and just 2 guys going through the motions - WWE pushing Black to the hilt

SP & Garza & Theory - for me this is a weird match - why when Andrade dropped out wouldnt they have picked like Viking Raiders or something? A brand new unknown tag team were never gonna go over. Like Belair coming out for the save - nice spot

KO & Seth - could watch these guys every week - only thing i didnt like..... since when can Wrestlers make matches - surely they should have had someone come on the titantron or screen and say no.... this is mania.... no dq match! Just seemed like a massive oversight imo. Great match tho

Ladder Match - unreal match - 3 men done so well under the circumstances - if there was a crowd watching that match they would have lost their minds!! some huge spots - that spanish fly was ridic

Becky & Shayna - too short a match and hated the ending! Was flowing nicely and then over - thought they could have built it so much more by even giving the win to Becks by dq - keeping Shayna strong!! But it was just like.... what... huh.... seemed soft imo! Especially for a title match

Bryan & Sami - see above for Becky & Shayna

Elias & Corban - Pure Filler and no interest in either tbh

Womens Tag - nice timing and solid match imo - Cross and Alexa really got some good exposure in this match - made them look strong throughout! Gonna be interesting to see what they do with Sane now as i think shes awesome and they dont seem to know what to do with her!

HATED GRONK.... so forced and ridiculous! Hate Mojo so much too!

All in all in the situation I thought that it was a Solid Mania.... especially when expectations were so low....

Itssoeasy · 06-04-2020 02:03PM

Interesting that wrestlemania 36 is rated as TV-14 for both nights. That's the first time since 2008 isn't it ?

ThePott · 06-04-2020 02:19PM

Was it? I remember my brother remarked on the PG rating, maybe they changed the rating of it after the fact cause of the few swears.

06-04-2020 02:26PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Your take is that wrestling sucks so we shouldn't even try.

My take is that you hate wrestling.

I don't hate wrestling. I just know what it is and enjoy it when I can. I am never ashamed of it.

I never said wrestling sucks (partly because of the fact that I'm from Dublin and wouldn't use that phrase) and I am now, and have been since I was 6, a huge wrestling fan. Last night was the first time my 8 year old daughter was interested enough to sit up and watch it with me. Had a great time.

Your problem seem to stem that you think that because of things like the undertaker match and the firefly "match", people who don't like wrestling will see it and think you are silly for watching wrestling.

Tell me, what wrestling do you like? Who is your favourite?

06-04-2020 02:27PM

I enjoyed firefly fun house match at the time, was more of a promo really but thinking back on it, does it not dilute the realistic stuff maybe a tad. Edge v Orton very raw , presented as such, but then you have Be an doing his shtick, them Brock and drew.

As I said I enjoyed it but would it be akin to watching an episode of something like breaking bad, and an alien pops up on the show ever now and again. Does it damage the rest of the show?

As I said I enjoyed it but I can see sense in why people didn't.

Jayesdiem · 06-04-2020 02:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wut?

Suspending reality is ok but suspending logic isn't?

You've just broken your own rule mate.

Incorrect. Suspension of reality is accepting the fight is real. Suspension of logic is that it takes place in the fifth dimension.

afro man · 06-04-2020 02:32PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Finally a British wwe world champion

IS He not Scottish

:D

06-04-2020 02:43PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Incorrect. Suspension of reality is accepting the fight is real. Suspension of logic is that it takes place in the fifth dimension.

A suspension of logic would also include the fact that the wrestlers aren't being bruised, cut or killed. Or that "hulking up" is a thing. Or the fact that men who can perform Spanish fly's or moonsaults suddenly can't climb an 8 foot ladder under a minute?

Logic goes out the window in nearly every match, but so what? It's good sh*t mostly.

If you didn't enjoy it, that's absolutely fine. It won't be for everyone. But as a man in your mid thirties to be ashamed of it and say you wont watch it anymore because of shame is a little sad considering all the other logical fallacies you have struggled through.

Itssoeasy · 06-04-2020 02:43PM

ThePott wrote: »

Was it? I remember my brother remarked on the PG rating, maybe they changed the rating of it after the fact cause of the few swears.

As I was watching the second night live last night it was rated TV-14 towards the end of the night but honestly I don't remember what the first night was rated live but it's TV-14 today as we speak.

DrumSteve · 06-04-2020 02:47PM

I quite enjoyed it all things considered.

Were in the middle of a global pandemic, fair play to the E for adapting.

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 02:52PM

On Gronk, what did he add to the show?

Like when I heard he signed and was starting a program at Wrestlemania to lead into Summerslam I was hoping for more.

Like him or not he has potential. He could be a dickhead, in your face heel going one on one with Kofi, Bryan or Sheamus, but its a waste of time and money presenting him as a face in the 24-7 program.

Maximising potential not wasting the opportunity.

beakerjoe · 06-04-2020 02:53PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

I quite enjoyed it all things considered.

Were in the middle of a global pandemic, fair play to the E for adapting.

This sums up Mania for me.

It did well considering the dire situation.

BTW I enjoyed the Nikki Bella dig at Cena, Cena is a good sport.

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 03:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't hate wrestling. I just know what it is and enjoy it when I can. I am never ashamed of it.

I never said wrestling sucks (partly because of the fact that I'm from Dublin and wouldn't use that phrase) and I am now, and have been since I was 6, a huge wrestling fan. Last night was the first time my 8 year old daughter was interested enough to sit up and watch it with me. Had a great time.

Your problem seem to stem that you think that because of things like the undertaker match and the firefly "match", people who don't like wrestling will see it and think you are silly for watching wrestling.

Tell me, what wrestling do you like? Who is your favourite?

Well what is wrestling to you? Because any of the aspects that Id associate with wrestling were not present for the Taker/Wyatt matches. And honestly if you enjoy that stuff that's fine, but calling it wrestling is misleading, calling it great wrestling is straight dumb.

If it were the Hardy stuff on Impact or AEW Id laugh at it and move on, but Wrestlemania reaches the casuals and God it is embarrassing trying to justify that to somebody not in the wrestling bubble. I don't follow the WWE product very closely anymore but that company detests their own fanbase so much.

I'd never limit myself. I watch most things. I watch some Euro stuff, I watch some American indies stuff (which is, to be fair, these days is by and large the same irony stuff as those two matches)I watch some joshi, I watch mid level puro, I watch top level puro, I watch AEW, I watch bits of WWE. I take all of it for what it is. But when you are doing nether-realm stuff, when you've got transporting dead people, you lose me a bit. When that's your 2 big matches at your biggest show of the year and the other 2 big matches are a combined 10 minutes of finisher spamming then I'm sorry but your company is downright trash and honestly I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion who tries to put a different spin on it.

DrumSteve · 06-04-2020 03:31PM

afro man wrote: »

IS He not Scottish :D

Only when he loses.

sky88 · 06-04-2020 03:34PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Well what is wrestling to you? Because any of the aspects that Id associate with wrestling were not present for the Taker/Wyatt matches. And honestly if you enjoy that stuff that's fine, but calling it wrestling is misleading, calling it great wrestling is straight dumb.

If it were the Hardy stuff on Impact or AEW Id laugh at it and move on, but Wrestlemania reaches the casuals and God it is embarrassing trying to justify that to somebody not in the wrestling bubble. I don't follow the WWE product very closely anymore but that company detests their own fanbase so much.

I'd never limit myself. I watch most things. I watch some Euro stuff, I watch some American indies stuff (which is, to be fair, these days is by and large the same irony stuff as those two matches)I watch some joshi, I watch mid level puro, I watch top level puro, I watch AEW, I watch bits of WWE. I take all of it for what it is. But when you are doing nether-realm stuff, when you've got transporting dead people, you lose me a bit. When that's your 2 big matches at your biggest show of the year and the other 2 big matches are a combined 10 minutes of finisher spamming then I'm sorry but your company is downright trash and honestly I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion who tries to put a different spin on it.

my friends who are casuals loved the boneyard and funhouse matches and have been texting me about it which they never do.

PTH2009 · 06-04-2020 03:38PM

2 members of the 3MB are/were world title holders

LineOfBeauty · 06-04-2020 03:38PM

sky88 wrote: »

my friends who are casuals loved the boneyard and funhouse matches and have been texting me about it which they never do.

I hope for your sake your casual friends are representative of the rest of society because I think the ratings are about to hit a slump even worse than the normal post Mania season.

My housemates watched the Taker one, laughed for a couple of minutes, it went way too long and I spent the next hour assuring them they aren't living with a social deviant and I don't watch this stuff regularly.

Wrestlemania 2020 - Spoilers, rumours, etc

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