Registering an unlicensed firearm

Bogwoppit · 10-12-2013 4:16pm #1

I was asked by an acquantance recenly whether I knew how you go about registering an unlicensed shotgun.
He knew I have my own guns and thought I might have an answer.

He explained that he found the gun in the attic, turns out it was his father's (long dead) but he doesn't have a license for it.
He wants to get it licensed but is afraid the gardai will destroy it if he brings it to the station.

I told him I didn't have the foggiest about how you'd do it but that I'd ask some questions, so far nobody I know has had any helpful suggestions.

What's the best course of action?

Thanks

Bw

Dian Cecht · 10-12-2013 4:28pm

Take asap to a registered firearms dealer & explain what happened. Get a receipt from the dealer and go to your local Garda Station and explain what happened & tell them you want to licence it.

Fill out relevant form & if your eligible you'll get sorted with a licence. If not ask dealer to sell it or destroy it for you.

Vegeta · 10-12-2013 4:40pm

Yup as above, should be pretty painless really.

Sparks · 11-12-2013 1:49pm

As above, but with two caveats;

If the dealer would come to the house to pick it up, that'd be better since his dealers licence would cover him carrying the firearm, whereas if your mate was stopped on the way to the dealers with the shotgun... that could get sticky. You could also ask the Gardai to do that, I suppose...
If a licence isn't forthcoming, instead of destroying or selling the shotgun, there is the third option of deactivating it if your mate wants to keep it for sentimental reasons.

safesemiauto · 29-03-2020 12:58pm

Hi there guys I’m wondering if this is still the case

Rosahane · 29-03-2020 1:28pm

safesemiauto wrote: »

Hi there guys I’m wondering if this is still the case

Yes, but...

You can forget about the deactivation option as, at the moment it has to go the the UK to be deactivated - so hugely expensive.

At the moment very few, if any, Firearms Dealers are open due to the Covid restrictions.

safesemiauto · 29-03-2020 1:35pm

Rosahane wrote: »

Yes, but...

You can forget about the deactivation option as, at the moment it has to go the the UK to be deactivated - so hugely expensive.

At the moment very few, if any, Firearms Dealers are open due to the Covid restrictions.

Thanks for that just settling a debate on if it could be done or not that’s what sitting in the house will do to ya

LIFFY FISHING · 30-03-2020 9:51am

Rosahane wrote: »

Yes, but...

You can forget about the deactivation option as, at the moment it has to go the the UK to be deactivated - so hugely expensive.

At the moment very few, if any, Firearms Dealers are open due to the Covid restrictions.

The origional advise is interesting...
Why or how would a RFD take an unlicenced firearm ?

For a start its illegal to do so...no matter what the backstory is ..unless instructed by AGS to do so, and that would need to be in writing .

Sparks · 30-03-2020 10:55am

If it was illegal for an RFD to have in their possession an unlicenced firearm, then (a) importations of new firearms or holding of stock for display and sale would be rather tough and (b) AGS would need to find alternative - and currently nonexistant - secure storage for certain evidence in various parts of the country.

Now an ordinary member of the public (ie. us) transporting said firearm is a lot hairier. But it wouldn't be the first time it was done at the behest of senior members of AGS either.

LIFFY FISHING · 30-03-2020 2:18pm

Sparks wrote: »

If it was illegal for an RFD to have in their possession an unlicenced firearm, then (a) importations of new firearms or holding of stock for display and sale would be rather tough and (b) AGS would need to find alternative - and currently nonexistant - secure storage for certain evidence in various parts of the country.

Now an ordinary member of the public (ie. us) transporting said firearm is a lot hairier. But it wouldn't be the first time it was done at the behest of senior members of AGS either.

Not what I said...I did say a RFD can not take an unlicenced firearm into his possesion from a member of the public...very different to a RFD having documented firearms in his stock / possesion as those would have a paperwork trail.
I also did state that AGS could request a RFD to store firearms...that is done under authorisation.

tudderone · 30-03-2020 4:12pm

I've seen this done several times over the years. Usually when an old boy drops off the perch and a firearm is found in the attic or under the bed. The next of kin dropping it off at a dealers and getting it licenced or sold. I got a very nice Dublin made shotgun this way, it was found when a old chap died and his son dropped it off at a dealers. He initially wanted to licence it but he was too busy and just wanted rid.

LIFFY FISHING · 30-03-2020 5:00pm

tudderone wrote: »

I've seen this done several times over the years. Usually when an old boy drops off the perch and a firearm is found in the attic or under the bed. The next of kin dropping it off at a dealers and getting it licenced or sold. I got a very nice Dublin made shotgun this way, it was found when a old chap died and his son dropped it off at a dealers. He initially wanted to licence it but he was too busy and just wanted rid.

Suppose its an Irish thing...we tend to " find ways" to get things done

tudderone · 30-03-2020 5:21pm

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Suppose its an Irish thing...we tend to " find ways" to get things done

Well it seems very straightforward, and very commonplace, neither the dealers or the gardai appear to have a problem with it. I don't actually know what the law says about it though.

civdef · 30-03-2020 5:52pm

The law says a firearms dealer doesn't need a licence to possess a firearm. It doesn't say a whole lot else (unless the dealer is importing it from abroad). A dealer sending a consignment of guns to another needs a removal order, but that's a different situation. Once the dealer has possession of it, legal, end of.

*ingnoring rules about prohibited / restricted firearms for a minute here.

Sparks · 30-03-2020 6:09pm

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Not what I said...I did say a RFD can not take an unlicenced firearm into his possesion from a member of the public...very different to a RFD having documented firearms in his stock / possesion as those would have a paperwork trail.
I also did state that AGS could request a RFD to store firearms...that is done under authorisation.

They definitely would get some odd looks for just taking unlicenced firearms in like that and I suspect paperwork audits would be forthcoming if nefarious goings-on were discovered; but the original context was that of someone finding a previously-licenced firearm whose owner was deceased (or which the owner had thought and declared it lost or otherwise). In those cases, pragmatism in enforcement is usually deployed, but obviously should not be assumed beforehand...

Half-cocked · 31-03-2020 10:51am

About 2 years ago my mates parents in-law were selling up and down-sizing. While clearing out the attic they discovered an old RIC issue Lee Enfield rifle. There was some vague recollection about an ancestor acquiring it during the war of independence. My mate contacted the Gardaí who arranged for him to hand it into an RFD. Given the age and provenance of the firearm the Gardaí weren't worried about it having been used in any recent crimes and said he could apply for a license for it which he successfully did.

I'd imagine, as always, much will depend on the local super.

beauf · 31-03-2020 10:56am

Wow love the history of that ..

kowloon · 31-03-2020 7:06pm

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Suppose its an Irish thing...we tend to " find ways" to get things done

The legislation is a mess, they need to nuke it from orbit and start again, this time written by someone who knows which end of a gun the firey smokey killy bit comes from.

tudderone · 31-03-2020 7:36pm

kowloon wrote: »

The legislation is a mess, they need to nuke it from orbit and start again, this time written by someone who knows which end of a gun the firey smokey killy bit comes from.

If they did that, they would slip in all sorts of crap and we would be worse off, let sleeping dogs lie.

kowloon · 31-03-2020 10:28pm

tudderone wrote: »

If they did that, they would slip in all sorts of crap and we would be worse off, let sleeping dogs lie.

tudderone · 31-03-2020 10:57pm

kowloon wrote: »

Come on, you know full well that the ptb would take the opportunity to stitch us up.

civdef · 01-04-2020 1:00am

kowloon wrote: »

The legislation is a mess, they need to nuke it from orbit and start again, this time written by someone who knows which end of a gun the firey smokey killy bit comes from.

Given the original act dates back to 1925, many of the legislators at the time had considerable first hand knowledge on the subject.

kowloon · 01-04-2020 11:29am

civdef wrote: »

Given the original act dates back to 1925, many of the legislators at the time had considerable first hand knowledge on the subject.

Most of the ****edy stuff seems to have been piled on top of that, it'd be nice if it was all one single intelligible document. I guess that's too much to ask.

Grizzly 45 · 01-04-2020 11:56am

civdef wrote: »

Given the original act dates back to 1925, many of the legislators at the time had considerable first hand knowledge on the subject.

Way things are going,maybe in a few years,we ,ourselves might be drawing up the legisation in a post plauge world.:eek::P.

BattleCorp · 02-04-2020 12:41pm

tudderone wrote: »

Come on, you know full well that the ptb would take the opportunity to stitch us up.

You are indeed correct.

You only have to look at the gold-plating done on the last lot of EU legislation. There was absolutely no need to ban magazines over 10 rounds. The EU law left room for exemptions for sporting reasons etc. but our lads used it as a stick to hammer us with. There was also nothing it in that said you had to keep your ammo in a locked box when transporting it.....that's all our own lads doing too but they brought it in under the guise of adhering to an EU directive.

Sparks · 02-04-2020 12:56pm

kowloon wrote: »

Most of the ****edy stuff seems to have been piled on top of that, it'd be nice if it was all one single intelligible document. I guess that's too much to ask.

We've been asking for that for a while now

The Law Reform Commission did actually do the work, but they're advisory documents, not laws.

Grizzly 45 · 03-04-2020 1:39pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are indeed correct.

You only have to look at the gold-plating done on the last lot of EU legislation. There was absolutely no need to ban magazines over 10 rounds. The EU law left room for exemptions for sporting reasons etc. but our lads used it as a stick to hammer us with. There was also nothing it in that said you had to keep your ammo in a locked box when transporting it.....that's all our own lads doing too but they brought it in under the guise of adhering to an EU directive.

The locked "receptacle",[lets not give or talk specifics,and give people ideas] is actually an EU standard of most national laws in mainland Europe. Just that most European shooters take it as what it says,and use their rucsacks,range bags or whatever to transport their ammo,and dont go overboard like here about it.

After talking F2F with the architects of this mess with the mags,it is crtainly their "policy" to restrict as much as possible a growth in semi autos here,and after writing this mess,they have pushed the responsibility of enforcing this onto the AGS .Leaving the AGS,should it come to it,to decide what is a high cap magazine,and how to identify a converted former select fire gun?
We still dont know;
1] Is a blocked to 10 shots from 20 rounds acceptable? Or must the body be actually physically incapable of holding more than 10 rounds when loaded?

2] How must it be blocked?Taking into consideration the various differences in designs of mags,and that some need removeable floor plates and springs for cleaning?

3] How do they propose dealing with mag extensions?

4] How do they propose dealing with compatibility mags in both rifles and pistols in the same caliber? As possesion of a 20 round pistol mag with a rifle that accepts the same mag design is considerd under the EU directive a crime as it is supposed to only have 10 round mags,in the same address.

All of this could have been sorted out if not for the arrogance of "We know whats best,and we must rush this into law as our EU overlords[who were still trying to figure this out at the time] demand such."

tudderone · 03-04-2020 3:47pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The locked "receptacle",[lets not give or talk specifics,and give people ideas] is actually an EU standard of most national laws in mainland Europe. Just that most European shooters take it as what it says,and use their rucsacks,range bags or whatever to transport their ammo,and dont go overboard like here about it.

After talking F2F with the architects of this mess with the mags,it is crtainly their "policy" to restrict as much as possible a growth in semi autos here,and after writing this mess,they have pushed the responsibility of enforcing this onto the AGS .Leaving the AGS,should it come to it,to decide what is a high cap magazine,and how to identify a converted former select fire gun?
We still dont know;
1] Is a blocked to 10 shots from 20 rounds acceptable? Or must the body be actually physically incapable of holding more than 10 rounds when loaded?

2] How must it be blocked?Taking into consideration the various differences in designs of mags,and that some need removeable floor plates and springs for cleaning?

3] How do they propose dealing with mag extensions?

4] How do they propose dealing with compatibility mags in both rifles and pistols in the same caliber? As possesion of a 20 round pistol mag with a rifle that accepts the same mag design is considerd under the EU directive a crime as it is supposed to only have 10 round mags,in the same address.

All of this could have been sorted out if not for the arrogance of "We know whats best,and we must rush this into law as our EU overlords[who were still trying to figure this out at the time] demand such."

Ban first, work out the details later after you have had a pat on the head from the unelected grand poobah in Brussels.

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Registering an unlicensed firearm

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