The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

meeeeh · 28-03-2020 02:35PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well 'gut feeling' is instinct. Instinct is a subconscious decision making process that involves unconscious process driven by primitive needs and learnt cognitive and emotional responses. Logic it certainly isn't. Logic is the application of rationality to information. Having informed myself as much as possible, I have applied logic to my information. The result of that process is that, in my opinion, Britain is in much more trouble than Ireland.

They say the more you know more you know how much you don't know. There are people who study this for years who don't know or don't want to say where the numbers will go or what the final number will be.

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 02:39PM

meeeeh wrote: »

They say the more you know more you know how much you don't know. There are people who study this for years who don't know or don't want to say where the numbers will go or what the final number will be.

Sure. Doctors differ and patients die. I've offered what I consider to be a relatively cogent argument based on fact and logic. Happy for anyone to prove me wrong with fact and logic.

robinph · 28-03-2020 02:46PM

I'd rather live in Ireland and have got myself an Irish passport when I had the chance under normal circumstances. That is mostly down to Brexit.

At the moment though I feel safer in the UK than in Ireland. If Covid19 gets me then it won't kill me, but it might cause my other health conditions to kill me and I feel that the NHS has provided me with significantly better service in maintaining those that the Irish system ever did, and for zero cost and far less hassle or hoops to jump through.

If I was living in London it might be a different matter. But have plenty of family living there who don't seem overly concerned at this stage.

silverharp · 28-03-2020 02:56PM

tragically funny , overeager plod not happy that shop have marked some spacing guideline I assume in chalk outside their shop on the pavement

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1243864036632076291

RobMc59 · 28-03-2020 03:00PM

McGiver wrote: »

So far the leaders in terms of lowest deaths as a % of cases are:
Germany with a huge lead
Switzerland
Austria
Luxembourg
Norway
Czech Republic
Finland
Slovenia

Poland and Ireland not doing bad at all.

Sweden, Denmark, Belgium quite disappointing.

Italy, Spain, UK, the Netherlands, France quite poor.

If you take the EU as a whole(you can`t say`we are the EU`when it suits but distance yourself when the statistics don`t fall as you like!) things don`t look brilliant.Ireland seems to be bucking the trend though despite a sharp rise in deaths.
Taking the EU as a whole the UK is`nt doing too badly.

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 03:05PM

robinph wrote: »

I'd rather live in Ireland and have got myself an Irish passport when I had the chance under normal circumstances. That is mostly down to Brexit.

At the moment though I feel safer in the UK than in Ireland. If Covid19 gets me then it won't kill me, but it might cause my other health conditions to kill me and I feel that the NHS has provided me with significantly better service in maintaining those that the Irish system ever did, and for zero cost and far less hassle or hoops to jump through.

If I was living in London it might be a different matter. But have plenty of family living there who don't seem overly concerned at this stage.

Glad you and your family are safe. Just a few comparative facts:

Per capita spend on Health annually:
UK €3100
Ireland: €4000

Doctors per 1,000:
UK: 2.8
Ireland: 2.9

Nurses per 1,000:
UK: 7.9
Ireland: 11.9

Ireland has more hospital beds per capita than Britain.

Pertinently, mortality rates for respiratory illnesses are lower in Ireland than the UK.

Life expectancy in Ireland is increasing at a quicker pace than UK.

Amenable/preventable mortality rates are lower in Ireland than the UK.

lainey_d_123 · 28-03-2020 03:09PM

silverharp wrote: »

tragically funny , overeager plod not happy that shop have marked some spacing guideline I assume in chalk outside their shop on the pavement

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1243864036632076291

Jesus Christ, what an absolute bellend. How are these idiots still not getting it?

splinter65 · 28-03-2020 03:10PM

This thread is an embarrassment to boards really. It’s very disappointing to think that there are so many adults with such a deep sense of insecurity about our nearest neighbour with whom we co operate 24/7 365 for our mutual benefit, that they are anxiously wishing and hoping for so many of them to die.
All so that they can prove once and for all that “we wus better den dem”.
It doesn’t matter that 1000s of the dead will be Irish living in the UK apparently, no. All that matters is that “BOJO”, whos only crime appears to be that he’s different to you, who has so far achieved everything he set out to do, and his government are shown to be lacking. What a sad lonely bunch you are.

28-03-2020 03:15PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you take the EU as a whole(you can`t say`we are the EU`when it suits but distance yourself when the statistics don`t fall as you like!) things don`t look brilliant.Ireland seems to be bucking the trend though despite a sharp rise in deaths.
Taking the EU as a whole the UK is`nt doing too badly.

But the responses have been up to the individual countries.. looking at the EU as whole right now makes no sense

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 03:16PM

splinter65 wrote: »

This thread is an embarrassment to boards really. It’s very disappointing to think that there are so many adults with such a deep sense of insecurity about our nearest neighbour with whom we co operate 24/7 365 for our mutual benefit, that they are anxiously wishing and hoping for so many of them to die.
All so that they can prove once and for all that “we wus better den dem”.
It doesn’t matter that 1000s of the dead will be Irish living in the UK apparently, no. All that matters is that “BOJO”, whos only crime appears to be that he’s different to you, who has so far achieved everything he set out to do, and his government are shown to be lacking. What a sad lonely bunch you are.

His crime is his lack of leadership at a time of crisis. This is an Irish discussion board. The title of the thread is 'The UK response to Covid-19'. Fact and theories are being discussed in those contexts. Nobody is "anxiously wishing and hoping" for anyone to die. Calm down and grow up.

Donald Trump · 28-03-2020 03:17PM

splinter65 wrote: »

This thread is an embarrassment to boards really. It’s very disappointing to think that there are so many adults with such a deep sense of insecurity about our nearest neighbour with whom we co operate 24/7 365 for our mutual benefit, that they are anxiously wishing and hoping for so many of them to die.
All so that they can prove once and for all that “we wus better den dem”.
It doesn’t matter that 1000s of the dead will be Irish living in the UK apparently, no. All that matters is that “BOJO”, whos only crime appears to be that he’s different to you, who has so far achieved everything he set out to do, and his government are shown to be lacking. What a sad lonely bunch you are.

emmmm..............yeah...........I think you're either reading a different thread or showing us your own inner thoughts dude.

Nobody is wanting people to die. As for cooperation, that is exactly what people wanted. And they wanted it 2 weeks ago when schools closed in the Republic but the glorious leader Johnson was faffing about and leaving the Northern ones open.

It's all well and good coming on and moaning about co-operation now. Bit of a little red hen about it methinks!

meeeeh · 28-03-2020 03:28PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you take the EU as a whole(you can`t say`we are the EU`when it suits but distance yourself when the statistics don`t fall as you like!) things don`t look brilliant.Ireland seems to be bucking the trend though despite a sharp rise in deaths.
Taking the EU as a whole the UK is`nt doing too badly.

That's nonsense comparison. In comparison to China Italy was doing very well in January. EU as whole doesn't have the same health system and government. Measures in different countries were done differently and it's clear Spanish and French were reckless. And so was UK but because of the geopolitical distance there is a bit of a lag.

robinph · 28-03-2020 03:31PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Glad you and your family are safe. Just a few comparative facts:

Per capita spend on Health annually:
UK €3100
Ireland: €4000

Doctors per 1,000:
UK: 2.8
Ireland: 2.9

Nurses per 1,000:
UK: 7.9
Ireland: 11.9

Ireland has more hospital beds per capita than Britain.

Pertinently, mortality rates for respiratory illnesses are lower in Ireland than the UK.

Life expectancy in Ireland is increasing at a quicker pace than UK.

Amenable/preventable mortality rates are lower in Ireland than the UK.

Yep, but there is more to it than just those raw numbers.

It's really for a separate discussion, but for me the not having to pay to access a GP makes a much bigger difference to the potential health of the nation than there being a few more doctors but that you have to personally justify the expense before you bother going. Also not having to pay for my prescriptions and getting far more technology that I couldn't get in Ireland (can now, but couldn't when I was there) and much easier access to the specialists for my condition without feeling like I'm an inconvenience to them.

I also have a separate condition that is mostly based on the environment, and that is significantly worse for me certain parts of the UK than it ever was in Ireland. Yet because I get the drugs I need for zero cost I'm better off being in the UK.

The free at the point of service for health is a massive factor in how well provided for I feel.

timhenn · 28-03-2020 03:36PM

splinter65 wrote: »

This thread is an embarrassment to boards really. It’s very disappointing to think that there are so many adults with such a deep sense of insecurity about our nearest neighbour with whom we co operate 24/7 365 for our mutual benefit, that they are anxiously wishing and hoping for so many of them to die.
All so that they can prove once and for all that “we wus better den dem”.
It doesn’t matter that 1000s of the dead will be Irish living in the UK apparently, no. All that matters is that “BOJO”, whos only crime appears to be that he’s different to you, who has so far achieved everything he set out to do, and his government are shown to be lacking. What a sad lonely bunch you are.

This from the poster who was saying how funny it would be if another poster and their family got sick and were dying from covid 19!

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 03:40PM

robinph wrote: »

Yep, but there is more to it than just those raw numbers.

It's really for a separate discussion, but for me the not having to pay to access a GP makes a much bigger difference to the potential health of the nation than there being a few more doctors but that you have to personally justify the expense before you bother going. Also not having to pay for my prescriptions and getting far more technology that I couldn't get in Ireland (can now, but couldn't when I was there) and much easier access to the specialists for my condition without feeling like I'm an inconvenience to them.

I also have a separate condition that is mostly based on the environment, and that is significantly worse for me certain parts of the UK than it ever was in Ireland. Yet because I get the drugs I need for zero cost I'm better off being in the UK.

The free at the point of service for health is a massive factor in how well provided for I feel.

Fair enough. Glad you feel taken care of. Obviously, that's a relatively anecdotal point of view but valid nonetheless. Poorer people in Ireland have a medical card which gives them access to a GP - this constitutes 30% of the population. Others pay but can write off much of it off against tax. So it's not a case that people don't have free or cheap access to GPs in Ireland. As you say, it's probably a discussion for elsewhere.

splinter65 · 28-03-2020 03:42PM

timhenn wrote: »

This from the poster who was saying how funny it would be if another poster and their family got sick and were dying from covid 19!

Yes the poster in question thought it was hilariously funny that the UK PM tested positive for the virus and was at home sick, so?

robinph · 28-03-2020 03:51PM

timhenn wrote: »

This from the poster who was saying how funny it would be if another poster and their family got sick and were dying from covid 19!

I think you may need to reboot your sarcasm detector chip.

timhenn · 28-03-2020 03:51PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes the poster in question thought it was hilariously funny that the UK PM tested positive for the virus and was at home sick, so?

Then it's ok for you to wish someone and their family picks up the virus and dies? I think the below might be a more accurate description of yourself!

splinter65 wrote: »

What a sad lonely person you are.

timhenn · 28-03-2020 03:52PM

robinph wrote: »

I think you may need to reboot your sarcasm detector chip.

Maybe you need to read all the posts before replying:

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes the poster in question thought it was hilariously funny that the UK PM tested positive for the virus and was at home sick, so?

theological · 28-03-2020 04:01PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Look at the numbers. We're already on track to be as bad as Italy, and without the specialist equipment and top class hospitals they have. I have friends working in hospitals and they're already at capacity, totally stretched, and this is only the beginning. I think you have your head in the sand here.

Again, it looks like there's a gap in the reasoning here. Please provide your workings.

The numbers will rise for another week before we see the effects of the social distancing measures. Provided the vast majority of us are keeping to them there's no reason to think it will reach the same extent as Italy. Please provide the data that suggests this if you have it and I will happily change my mind.

A combination of following the advice on a top down level, and the mass testing and the antibody testing coming into place will allow us to contain the virus.

robinph · 28-03-2020 04:03PM

timhenn wrote: »

Maybe you need to read all the posts before replying:

Tricky to quote it back to you on the phone app, but try rereading the post from yesterday that you were acusing of wishing other posters ill which was itself in response to a post that had been laughing at Boris Johnson having been diagnosed.

moonlighting_1 · 28-03-2020 04:04PM

Coronavirus: UK deaths climb above 1,000 - BBC News

timhenn · 28-03-2020 04:04PM

robinph wrote: »

Tricky to quote it back to you on the phone app, but try rereading the post from yesterday that you were acusing of wishing other posters ill which was itself in response to a post that had been laughing at Boris Johnson having been diagnosed.

Read this post:

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes the poster in question thought it was hilariously funny that the UK PM tested positive for the virus and was at home sick, so?

Not much of a denial there?

timhenn · 28-03-2020 04:11PM

The uk under Johnson have got themselves into a horrendous mess that has now cost over 1,000 lives and is rising. There must be huge anger amongst the general british population and people living there. When all this is over, which could be a long time away, would big changes in british society be expected? Being brash and arrogant has cost them big time with brexit and now this, time for a change in attitude?

RobMc59 · 28-03-2020 04:32PM

timhenn wrote: »

The uk under Johnson have got themselves into a horrendous mess that has now cost over 1,000 lives and is rising. There must be huge anger amongst the general british population and people living there. When all this is over, which could be a long time away, would big changes in british society be expected? Being brash and arrogant has cost them big time with brexit and now this, time for a change in attitude?

Right on cue,news of deaths and the troll appears like a grotesque genie in a lamp...

lainey_d_123 · 28-03-2020 05:17PM

theological wrote: »

Again, it looks like there's a gap in the reasoning here. Please provide your workings.

The numbers will rise for another week before we see the effects of the social distancing measures. Provided the vast majority of us are keeping to them there's no reason to think it will reach the same extent as Italy. Please provide the data that suggests this if you have it and I will happily change my mind.

A combination of following the advice on a top down level, and the mass testing and the antibody testing coming into place will allow us to contain the virus.

There's a gap in MY reasoning? You are living in fantasyland.

Italy implemented social distancing measures before their situation got as bad as this, and they've still had that many cases and deaths. They also had much wider availability of tests early on, and tested entire towns, in some cases, and it's still really bad. Why do you think it will be different here?

Perhaps if the lockdown had started BEFORE the infection ran rampant in pubs, restaurants, offices and public transport, back when confirmed cases were still in single or double digits, we could have avoided it getting this bad, but the genie is already out of the bottle. Over 17,000 cases and 1000 deaths already and the lockdown hasn't even been in place a week.

The real question is, what makes you think Italy haven't done the same and more as what's being done here?

The mortality rate in the UK is shocking! The US have over 100,000 cases and not even double our rate of deaths! How do you think this is under control?

Professor Moriarty · 28-03-2020 05:21PM

From the editor of the Lancet, Dr Horton, this week:

Dr Horton said the UK government's 'Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research' plan had failed.

He said: "It failed, in part, because ministers didn't follow World Health Organisation advice to 'test, test, test' every suspected case. They didn't isolate and quarantine. They didn't contact trace.

"These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque."

He added that "the result has been chaos and panic across the NHS".

humberklog · 28-03-2020 05:30PM

timhenn wrote: »

The uk under Johnson have got themselves into a horrendous mess that has now cost over 1,000 lives and is rising. There must be huge anger amongst the general british population and people living there. When all this is over, which could be a long time away, would big changes in british society be expected? Being brash and arrogant has cost them big time with brexit and now this, time for a change in attitude?

But by that thinking wouldn't it mean Britain (under a different government with a different approach) keeping the death toll to zero?

I'm not defending Boris's Britain but I don't think that summation works.

timhenn · 28-03-2020 05:48PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Right on cue,news of deaths and the troll appears like a grotesque genie in a lamp...

Any answer to the question I posed? Thought not.

timhenn · 28-03-2020 05:50PM

humberklog wrote: »

But by that thinking wouldn't it mean Britain (under a different government with a different approach) keeping the death toll to zero?

I'm not defending Boris's Britain but I don't think that summation works.

There's keeping a death toll to zero and then there's causing thousands upon thousands to die needlessly.

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Comments