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BSQ Beacon South Quarter Issues
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26-02-2020 12:26am#1More of a rant than anything! But this might be useful for anyone considering buying in BSQ. Issued in public interest
I made an offer on an apartment in BSQ in spring last year which was accepted. The banks approved a mortgage in principle based on the management company and estate agent stating that most of the works were underway due to be completed shortly.
Once a deposit was put down my solicitor identified various discrepancies in the narrative we were sold. The bank refused to lend and the agent stated I can purchase it for cash for the same amount or walk away. As I stood to lose a few thousands by walking away I requested my family for assistance and managed to arrange the cash.
My happiness was short lived, I got in a surveyor who identified various issues including structural and asked me to take in an engineer too. The vendor’s solicitor wouldn't agree with the surveyors report so requested for an engineer’s report and confirmed they will cover costs if issues were identified (I later realised it was for the report only, and only if I was purchasing.). This took over two months and we finally got the engineers report which confirmed issues. The costs to remediate the issues were a bit lower than 20% of the sales price. We went back to negotiate with the vendors solicitor and they stated that "every second hand apartment in Ireland build during the boom will have such defects and the apartment is sold "as is" and some of the "exterior" works are potentially covered by the fire and water levies charged. Take it or leave it".
So my option was to buy the apartment for cash and save up a good bit more for future works or walk away after suffering a loss due to solicitor, surveyor and engineers fees (they didn't refund this as I wasn't purchasing the apartment.).
I recently walked away after months of running around.
I was dejected with the loss (nearly 2.5 month’s salary) but it seems a blessing in disguise! 3 apartments I had seen for sale last year which were sale agreed have come back on the market! :eek: Safe to say I won't be considering a BSQ apartment.
I wouldn't trust this, looks likes a sponsored piece of news, its been framed really well. You need to understand the development to understand what each figure applies to:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/ires-has-spent-1m-remedying-building-defects-at-sandyford-apartments-1.3984158
Not that I would recommend it, but if anyone is still interested in an apartment at BSQ, feel free to reach out and I’ll try my best to help. Hopefully my knowledge will help save a few quids for someone else…
Also, contacting the OMC doesn't help much as they are duty bound to protect the development and do not share information with non-members. They are good to deal with but you will get the normal "your solicitor should..." response. The estate agents usually state "we have been informed by the vendor/vendor's solicitor" and the vendors solicitor will say "your solicitor should request for..."
Edit: I forgot to add that the estate agent and vendor's solicitor were very eager for me to provide them with the reports I paid for!
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Got a few PMs requesting for more info. Just compiling some of the info that was requested.
Might be better for anyone to post here so everyone else is aware too.
Q. Is the apartment I had surveyed currently on the market?
A. I wouldn't confirm or deny that as I don't want the vendor to lose a sale. I would suggest being vigilant to issues. Most issues reported in my survey were common to all.
Q. Any suggestion on which apartment currently on the market is worth pursuing?
As I stated, I won't be buying one in BSQ as the risk is too big for someone like me, others who have the funds will be in a better position. It's down to risk taking.
For the apartments currently on the market, I have viewed them "all"! I'm a serial viewer All of them had fire safety issues and a majority had water ingress issues. A lot of them have come back to the market for the second/third time.
FYI - There are a lot more apartments for sale which haven't been advertised. Ask the agent if they have any others "due to come on the market" You'll be surprised!
Q. Are the fire and water issues limited to cubes or the edges too?
A. Fire is a universal problem. Water is also an issue for a majority. Best do a survey before closing if everything else is fine according to your solicitor. It's not too expensive but will save you in the long run. Forget about an engineer's report, my opinion would be walk away instead.
Final work of caution, I wouldn't trust what the estate agent states. But if you do trust then also verify!2 -
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Hey there, while I appreciate you had a difficult experiences, I bought here some years back with the full understanding that some issues needed to be resolved.
Negotiated it all into the sales price - and, could not be any happier.
Please understand that some particular blocks had issues.
The Edges apartments, for example, have no structural defects at all and in Jan 2019 have been brought up to specs to the highest fire safety standard. All signed off and all work paid for and funded by owners.
Its a fantastic development and I could not be any happier.
Again, I am sorry it did not work out for you, but not all apartments and blocks had issues.
And to just add, those apartments that did have external structural window issues I believe are finally being compensated by insurers
Oh and lastly, please rather buy a place where you know it’s been through the ringer and issues have been costed (all apartments had their damage costed by Aramark and Engineers), so you know exactly how much it will cost to fix, than a place that is new to market where issues will appear in years to come. Ask any builder in Dublin and they will tell ya to go for 10 year old second had places anytime over the current new builds ... the drama continues 0 -
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Hey there, while I appreciate you had a difficult experiences, I bought here some years back with the full understanding that some issues needed to be resolved.
Negotiated it all into the sales price - and, could not be any happier.
Please understand that some particular blocks had issues.
The Edges apartments, for example, have no structural defects at all and in Jan 2019 have been brought up to specs to the highest fire safety standard. All signed off and all work paid for and funded by owners.
Its a fantastic development and I could not be any happier.
Again, I am sorry it did not work out for you, but not all apartments and blocks had issues.
And to just add, those apartments that did have external structural window issues I believe are finally being compensated by insurers
Oh and lastly, please rather buy a place where you know it’s been through the ringer and issues have been costed (all apartments had their damage costed by Aramark and Engineers), so you know exactly how much it will cost to fix, than a place that is new to market where issues will appear in years to come. Ask any builder in Dublin and they will tell ya to go for 10 year old second had places anytime over the current new builds ... the drama continues
I agree with most of what you say. With BSQ it seems to be the luck of the draw. You must be living in the building where fire safety works were completed in Feb 2019, the same cannot be said about the other two having the same name. Only the second structure to be completed after the tower. You could consider youself lucky! You have one of the handful apartments where the work is complete.
As you say, the location is fantastic thats why I wanted to buy there.
I'd rather not comment on the issues being compensated by the insurers on a public forum.
Again, I'm not advising anyone not to buy at BSQ. Just be aware and make sure a complete investigation is conducted by a solicitor and surveyor at least.0 -
More of a rant than anything! But this might be useful for anyone considering buying in BSQ. Issued in public interest
I made an offer on an apartment in BSQ in spring last year which was accepted. The banks approved a mortgage in principle based on the management company and estate agent stating that most of the works were underway due to be completed shortly.
Once a deposit was put down my solicitor identified various discrepancies in the narrative we were sold. The bank refused to lend and the agent stated I can purchase it for cash for the same amount or walk away. As I stood to lose a few thousands by walking away I requested my family for assistance and managed to arrange the cash.
My happiness was short lived, I got in a surveyor who identified various issues including structural and asked me to take in an engineer too. The vendor’s solicitor wouldn't agree with the surveyors report so requested for an engineer’s report and confirmed they will cover costs if issues were identified (I later realised it was for the report only, and only if I was purchasing.). This took over two months and we finally got the engineers report which confirmed issues. The costs to remediate the issues were a bit lower than 20% of the sales price. We went back to negotiate with the vendors solicitor and they stated that "every second hand apartment in Ireland build during the boom will have such defects and the apartment is sold "as is" and some of the "exterior" works are potentially covered by the fire and water levies charged. Take it or leave it".
So my option was to buy the apartment for cash and save up a good bit more for future works or walk away after suffering a loss due to solicitor, surveyor and engineers fees (they didn't refund this as I wasn't purchasing the apartment.).
I recently walked away after months of running around.
I was dejected with the loss (nearly 2.5 month’s salary) but it seems a blessing in disguise! 3 apartments I had seen for sale last year which were sale agreed have come back on the market! :eek: Safe to say I won't be considering a BSQ apartment.
I wouldn't trust this, looks likes a sponsored piece of news, its been framed really well. You need to understand the development to understand what each figure applies to:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/ires-has-spent-1m-remedying-building-defects-at-sandyford-apartments-1.3984158
Not that I would recommend it, but if anyone is still interested in an apartment at BSQ, feel free to reach out and I’ll try my best to help. Hopefully my knowledge will help save a few quids for someone else…
Also, contacting the OMC doesn't help much as they are duty bound to protect the development and do not share information with non-members. They are good to deal with but you will get the normal "your solicitor should..." response. The estate agents usually state "we have been informed by the vendor/vendor's solicitor" and the vendors solicitor will say "your solicitor should request for..."
Edit: I forgot to add that the estate agent and vendor's solicitor were very eager for me to provide them with the reports I paid for!
Hi - In which block of BSQ was this?
Do you know if this apartment was subsequently sold??0 -
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just to add my two cent
If apartments don’t sell, it can be linked to repossession that the bank has no right selling.
Before I bought at the BSQ, I was kept waiting by KBC to buy one of their repo in Dundrum. Turns out, they never had the proper papers to sell in the first place, yet advertised and arranged viewings, etc.
Had nothing to do with the apartment itself.
I know this has been the case for apartments at the beacon too. Places being advertised just to see what the market value is, with no intention of selling - and banks holding on!!!
Secondly, when I bought here at the BSQ, AIB were very happy to lend because all issues were identified and they had clear costings from engineers.
circlek, did you get your deposit back and who was the lender?0 -
just to add my two cent
If apartments don’t sell, it can be linked to repossession that the bank has no right selling.
Point well made! Something I missed but very relevant for any potential buyers. I saw a few repossessed apartments over the years and was aware of the issues and delays. I won't identify any current apartments for sale, but its good to do your research! No electricity is a telltale sign.Secondly, when I bought here at the BSQ, AIB were very happy to lend because all issues were identified and they had clear costings from engineers.
Some of The Edges, where you purchased, have a better chance of selling and getting a mortgage as approx. 33% of the apartments already have the work completed. I initially got AIP from BOI. Once that didn't work, J.Morton stated that AIB were lending, as you stated. So got AIP from AIB which was withdrawn once they identified the development and building.circlek, did you get your deposit back and who was the lender?
Got deposit back but had to get solicitor involved - lost out on a few thousands. Having said that, the apartment prices have dropped by multiples of what I lost. So in a way, in hindsight I'm glad that didn't work.0 -
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