Bus transport idea

zig · 07-12-2019 2:36pm #1

Hi,

I am wondering could someone explain to me why this idea sucks, and if no one can, would it be not worth pursuing politicians to bring it forward.
So, basically, having been to various parts of the world both rich and relatively poor I can definitely say Irish public transport is woeful. This is during a time where we are also shamefully underperformig in relation to CO2 emmisions.

My idea would be to give buses some kind of mild siren/light and dashcams and basically give them priority over cars in the same way an ambulance does (only it cant break lights or speed). So basically cars simply have to figure out a way of getting out of the way if a bus is behind them and the bus is demanding right of way.

You could double the busses on the road and everyone would use them knowing they were so reliable, you would have German style accuracy with bus times. The knock on effect of this would be less cars on the road anyway.

I understand there is a safety issue and also practical space issue, but fire trucks are nearly as big as busses and manage it.

I would also say something has to "give" and this case Id say the convenience of the car driver. But that would be the whole point, a car driver, where they can would be encouraged more to use the bus. This of course combined with better more intricate local routes.

For people who cant get a bus and they simply have the drive, they will benefit too as traffic will have reduced.

It would also require new laws and new rules of the road, but other than the cost would be minimal. No roadworks needed, just a roll out of the necessary hardware and new training and license system for bus drivers.

StreetLight · 07-12-2019 3:10pm

If present laws were taken seriously by motorists and gardai alike, and if the infrastructure was designed in accordance with reality, there wouldn't be half the issues we see daily.

Yellow boxes blocked.
Parking at bus stops.
Parking in bus lanes.
Queueing in bus lanes.
Driving in bus lanes.
Bus lanes painted the wrong width.
Bus stop cages the wrong length.
Raised kerbing at bus stops installed in the centre of the bus cage, instead of the outer edge to align with the door where people get on.

And people wonder why the bus service is so unreliable.

Joker2019 · 07-12-2019 3:27pm

Riddiculous idea that will never happen

Wishbone Ash · 07-12-2019 4:39pm

zig wrote: »

... new training and license system for bus drivers.

Why a new licence system?

zig · 07-12-2019 4:43pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Why a new licence system?

Maybe not this actually, but definitely new training. I was just thinking that it would be a completely different type of driving and that an existing bus license may not be enough to legally prove you are qualified to drive in that way.

Wishbone Ash · 07-12-2019 4:56pm

zig wrote: »

Maybe not this actually, but definitely new training. I was just thinking that it would be a completely different type of driving and that an existing bus license may not be enough to legally prove you are qualified to drive in that way.

Driving licences are categorised according to vehicle weights, structure and passenger numbers - nothing to do with the type of driving.

zig · 07-12-2019 4:57pm

Ok, fair enough, forget about that part, so just training required.

Wishbone Ash · 07-12-2019 5:10pm

zig wrote: »

....My idea would be to give buses some kind of mild siren/light and dashcams and basically give them priority over cars in the same way an ambulance does

.......You could double the busses on the road

.....

1. Others road users will generally accommodate an emergency vehicle as they associate them with emergencies. They won't consider the needs of bus users to be an emergency.

2. Leaving aside the capital costs, where do you propose getting all those extra drivers if the number of buses are doubled.

LastStop · 07-12-2019 5:16pm

So a bus driver has a light and siren...... and if nobody moves out of the way? As a previous poster pointed out, there are enough rules blatantly ignored at present. the issue is lack of enforcement.

How about a camera on front of bus, private car in bus lane in front of the bus.... click..... fine. Parked on lane....click....fine. The chances of being caught by roads policing is slim so everyone does what they like. Increase the possibility of getting caught and people will think twice.

zig · 07-12-2019 5:39pm

Yea, that was my thinking behind the dashcam. It is possible to change enforcement culture with enough effort and penalties. In this case, firstly it would be super obvious that a bus is waiting behind a car with a siren that is clearly telling it to get out of the way. Secondly the driver knows that the bus driver has a dash cam so if they are caught there and then they can be done for it after the fact.

On another note, the siren would have to be not too intrusive. Something very distinct from an ambulance etc but still obvious enough to know that when the bus driver turns it on you've to get out of the way. The bus driver should only turn it on when traffic looks to be slowing down or stopped.

It would be a mess on the road but that is the point, the goal is to get people to start using public transport and for it to be super reliable.

Wishbone Ash · 07-12-2019 5:53pm

zig wrote: »

... The bus driver should only turn it on when traffic looks to be slowing down or stopped....

I don't think you've really thought this out. Motorists don't slow down or stop just for fun. They do it because other vehicles in front have stopped or because they are legally obliged to stop. Where do you propose they go? And what happens when a dozen buses are on the same street?

zig · 07-12-2019 6:34pm

This is where the ambulance/fire brigade equivalence comes into it. The entire point is you must figure out a way of finding space for them, and that goes for traffic coming against the bus too. It would be a pretty drastic change of the rules of the road and how everything works because you are now assuming the bus is effectively the owner of the road.

And nope I havent thought it through much hence the post! But I still havent been convinced that it cant be done.

Obviously if there is more than 1 bus they have equal right of way against each other, i.e. if a bus is behind another bus it must wait.

But imagine how many cars a dozen buses would take off the road.

Obviously the entire point of this idea is that you are trying to get people to use buses because they would become 100% reliable, twice if not more as frequent and even more flexible in terms of routes. To achieve that now would be impossible if they are stuck in traffic.

And bus lanes just arent cutting it.

end of the road · 08-12-2019 1:54am

cheaper and simpler to put in tolls and a congestion charge.

Markcheese · 08-12-2019 10:12am

end of the road wrote: »

cheaper and simpler to put in tolls and a congestion charge.

Or even just cameras and fines for blocking yellow box junctions ,abd bus lanes,
If you can speed up buses ,even just a little then the same buses carry more people ,
Design better bus stops ,and use the same ticketing system as luas and you reduce the dwell time ,
And that's before you start giving over more lanes to buses ...
But making a city bus service work incrementally isn't free,and doesn't have a great big political ribbon cutting a value ,who's going to remember or give extra votes to the minister who started the programme that gradually doubled or trebbeled bus use. ..

AMKC · 08-12-2019 5:27pm

Yellow boxes blocked.
Parking at bus stops.
Parking in bus lanes.
Queueing in bus lanes.
Driving in bus lanes.

I see everyone of these all the time.

There should be a fine for each one and camera's that can take pictures of the offending drivers car should be installed at every bus stop. I don't care if the bus is not going to be there for 10 minutes or 10 seconds if they park in the bus stop they should fined and the money should be split between the bus company and the security company

Del2005 · 08-12-2019 11:41pm

zig wrote: »

This is where the ambulance/fire brigade equivalence comes into it. The entire point is you must figure out a way of finding space for them, and that goes for traffic coming against the bus too. It would be a pretty drastic change of the rules of the road and how everything works because you are now assuming the bus is effectively the owner of the road.

And nope I havent thought it through much hence the post! But I still havent been convinced that it cant be done.

Obviously if there is more than 1 bus they have equal right of way against each other, i.e. if a bus is behind another bus it must wait.

But imagine how many cars a dozen buses would take off the road.

Obviously the entire point of this idea is that you are trying to get people to use buses because they would become 100% reliable, twice if not more as frequent and even more flexible in terms of routes. To achieve that now would be impossible if they are stuck in traffic.

And bus lanes just arent cutting it.

Have you seen the trouble that emergency vehicles have getting through traffic when using their blues and twos? Because they struggle and generally they are solo or only a few vehicles going on blues and twos.

If you have a convoy of buses trying to use emergency style lights and sirens then the normal flow of traffic won't work, as other road users would be constantly pulling over and back out again, so the buses would just end up stuck in a complete mess of traffic were no one can progress.

Xterminator · 10-12-2019 12:01pm

what is needed is enforcement of existing rules. there should be camera's on each major junction mounted on or near the lights, and cameras on the buses.

If you knew every time you drove in a bus lane you would be fined, everytime you broke a red light there was a fine, it would almost be eradicated overnight. It is because these people know they will get away with it 99 times out of 100, that it continues.

Darc19 · 10-12-2019 12:14pm

The op should read up on the bus connects plan.

If the tree huggers and the nimbys actually stopped to think, they'd find it would be positive for them too.

In a way its like what the OP is suggesting - a group of priority routes that can take a high volume of busses which will get priority.

Local routes will feed into these routes using for want of a better word "hub bus stops"

Been done in several countries and was transformative

Bus transport idea

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