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Slow steam Downloads

  • 31-10-2019 10:01pm
    #1
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭


    Have you been wondering why steam is SOOOO SLOOOOW?


    I caught SKY red-handed. They do traffic shaping based on DNS somehow.
    Very likely other ISP's also do that.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111653018&fbclid=IwAR3gvpR_A0oHa2ANJk3r1Dviw7Tev-opmkF72Pw8gT5nKRM55peVYUqxSao#post111653018


    Now there is very strong chance it affects other ISP's in Ireland.


    Just I did not test those.


    I suspect Steam is using something like peer to peer technology. And they(SKY) throttle it with DNS servers, not just that, but they specifically INTERCEPT your DNS if you are acting smart and using google's DNS or some other third party DNS.


    So no, getting 8.8.8.8 is no longer a problem solver.

    I suspect Virgin does same.

    I have asked reps of SKY to comment on my bold claim. Lets see how they weasel themselves out. But people who will deal with it will not probably understand what's in the thread.
    But lets wait and see.

    UPDATE:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW5bP2IQIew&feature=youtu.be


Comments

  • #2
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    dimko wrote: »
    I have asked reps of SKY to comment on my bold claim.
    You'll be waiting a while for that as you posted it in the wrong forum.


    https://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1598


  • #3
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    You'll be waiting a while for that as you posted it in the wrong forum.


    https://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1598




    thank you for letting me know.


    Reposted question here:


    https://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2058027190


  • #4
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    Of course they do packet shaping and throttling on services like Steam, they'd be mad not to. The new CoD game - that's about a hundred gigs of a download times thousands of customers = a disaster for their national network.

    I switched to OpenDNS years ago when I was having such an awful time with Twitch streams on Virgin (they were still UPC at the time), never looked back.


  • #5
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Context:

    Whats your definition of slow speeds?


  • #6
    farna_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭farna_boy


    I had a similar experience recently with Eir.

    I was downloading COD WW2 last week. Typically my speeds are up to about 70MB/s but after I paused the COD download, I was only getting 4MB/s.

    They seemed to throttle it depending on the time of day. At one stage I had 7GB left and the estimated time was 1 hour (at about 4pm). Roll on an hour when I checked it again and there was 20 hours left and still about 7GB left to download.


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  • #7
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    Context:

    Whats your definition of slow speeds?


    5mbit download on 75mbit connection.

    And its reliably slow when I don't use my DNS.


  • #8
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Are you sure you are being throttled? 5mb/s on a 75mbit connection isn't awful when something like 8mb/s is the max you would ever get, is there some other element in play rather than it being a deliberate act.

    I'm on Virgin and I get full speed, my parents have Sky and the few times I've used Steam when over for a bit the downloads speed were about what I would've expected. About 9-10mb/s on a 100mb connection.


  • #9
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Have Virgin and most I even gotten was 57mb on Origin. For a while (about a year) Steam would max at 10mb, now all of the 57 platforms I have average out at 30mb.

    Im sure there is throttling and I would sadly agree with the ISPs if they do it.

    Pepperidge Farm remembers 50kb max Download


  • #10
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Homelander wrote: »
    Are you sure you are being throttled? 5mb/s on a 75mbit connection isn't awful when something like 8mb/s is the max you would ever get, is there some other element in play rather than it being a deliberate act.

    I'm on Virgin and I get full speed, my parents have Sky and the few times I've used Steam when over for a bit the downloads speed were about what I would've expected. About 9-10mb/s on a 100mb connection.


    there is difference between MBIT and Mbit. I always showed speed in Mbit.


    But I will demonstrate it in a few minutes. I uploaded almost 4k video to youtube, i am waiting for it to be processed.


  • #11
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Homelander


    I know that but I assumed you meant 5mb/s on a 75mb advertised connection, which isn't crazy low or anything, though less than optimal. If you meant 5mbit speed on a 75mbit connection, that would literally mean 700kb/s which I doubt is happening.

    Again I am on Virgin and I get 28mb/s on a 240mb advertised connection, which is pretty much full speed. I've never had sky but my parents have it, the odd time I've used it I would get about 9mb/s on a 100m connection which is also decent.

    I have Steam, Battlenet and Origin and they all work at full speed on Virgin without any issues. There could be geographical restrictions in place maybe.

    Long gone are the days of downloading Day of Defeat on 3kb/s, starting on Friday evening, leaving it connected overnight and getting up on Saturday morning.


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  • #12
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Homelander wrote: »
    Are you sure you are being throttled? 5mb/s on a 75mbit connection isn't awful when something like 8mb/s is the max you would ever get, is there some other element in play rather than it being a deliberate act.

    I'm on Virgin and I get full speed, my parents have Sky and the few times I've used Steam when over for a bit the downloads speed were about what I would've expected. About 9-10mb/s on a 100mb connection.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW5bP2IQIew&feature=youtu.be


    beyound shadow of a doubt.


  • #13
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Homelander wrote: »
    I know that but I assumed you meant 5mb/s on a 75mb advertised connection, which isn't crazy low or anything, though less than optimal. If you meant 5mbit speed on a 75mbit connection, that would literally mean 700kb/s which I doubt is happening.

    Again I am on Virgin and I get 28mb/s on a 240mb advertised connection, which is pretty much full speed. I've never had sky but my parents have it, the odd time I've used it I would get about 9mb/s on a 100m connection which is also decent.

    I have Steam, Battlenet and Origin and they all work at full speed on Virgin without any issues. There could be geographical restrictions in place maybe.

    Long gone are the days of downloading Day of Defeat on 3kb/s, starting on Friday evening, leaving it connected overnight and getting up on Saturday morning.




    Check and pass to others:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW5b...ature=youtu.be


  • #14
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Homelander


    That's interesting. I wonder if it's region based rather than a general thing? Next time I'm at my parents house I'll check their Sky again.


  • #15
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Homelander wrote: »
    That's interesting. I wonder if it's region based rather than a general thing? Next time I'm at my parents house I'll check their Sky again.




    This might be of help:


    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/dnsserver/test-dnsserverdnsseczonesetting?view=win10-ps


    I did not try it, but from looks of it it will do DNSSEC resolution and validation.


    And check it vs this:


    https://dnssec-analyzer.verisignlabs.com/pir.org


    I use DNSSEC protected domain pir.org to test my hypothesis.


    Remeber, just using 8.8.8.8 for DNS resolution wont work, intercepted at ISP level.


    I can work around it easily because I have my own DNS server that gets DNS data over secure privacy tunnel.


  • #16
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,034 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    A few points:

    CDNs commonly use DNS servers to determine location for rendezvous purposes. So using a DNS server unknown to the CDN involved will change the routing path compared to a well known DNS source like Google's.

    Equally using a VPN also changes your routing path.

    Valve use both their own CDN, and other third party ones, usually the three biggest ones, Akamai, CenturyLink and Limelight.

    I'd be far more inclined to suspect a congested peering arrangement, a sadly common place thing, rather than some far more exotic cause like DNS interference.


  • #17
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Spear wrote: »
    A few points:

    CDNs commonly use DNS servers to determine location for rendezvous purposes. So using a DNS server unknown to the CDN involved will change the routing path compared to a well known DNS source like Google's.

    Equally using a VPN also changes your routing path.

    Valve use both their own CDN, and other third party ones, usually the three biggest ones, Akamai, CenturyLink and Limelight.

    I'd be far more inclined to suspect a congested peering arrangement, a sadly common place thing, rather than some far more exotic cause like DNS interference.




    please look at video I attached to my first message.


    Its not congestion. I can trigger issue at will


  • #18
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    dimko wrote: »
    please look at video I attached to my first message.


    Its not congestion. I can trigger issue at will

    Not really sure what your issue is tho? If an ISP throttles downloads its for the greater good whether you or I like that.

    You can:

    Workout the time it will take to download a game @5mb and live with it.
    Switch ISPs
    Use a different DNS


  • #19
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    Not really sure what your issue is tho? If an ISP throttles downloads its for the greater good whether you or I like that.
    No it's not. I pay money for privilege of using connection. So no matter how I look at it - it's bad for me.


  • #20
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    dreamers75 wrote: »

    You can:

    Workout the time it will take to download a game @5mb and live with it.
    Switch ISPs
    Use a different DNS
    Yes, I can do many things.
    Also I can make sure people know they pull that trick.
    I am making community service here.


  • #21
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    Does a VPN subvert the throttling?


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  • #22
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    dimko wrote: »
    Yes, I can do many things.
    Also I can make sure people know they pull that trick.
    I am making community service here.

    Its not tho, its in your terms and conditions that you agreed to when you paid for the service.

    Everyone knows every ISPs do it :confused:


  • #23
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    Its not tho, its in your terms and conditions that you agreed to when you paid for the service.

    Everyone knows every ISPs do it :confused:
    First of all, I did not agree to ANY terms and conditions.
    Second of all, companies do unreadable terms and conditions on purpose, that doesn't mean they should not get away with it.


    Not everyone knows is. And not every ISP does it.


  • #24
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    Does a VPN subvert the throttling?
    DNS in VPN subverts throttling.


  • #25
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    If you signed a contract, then you agreed to their terms and conditions, there's no escaping that and trying to claim otherwise makes you look foolish and diminishes your argument. It's a business contract. You pay for a service and that service comes with terms and conditions. If you're not happy with them, you choose a different service provider. That's how capitalism works.

    ISPs have to do this. ISPs have always done this to one extent or another - maybe not specifically with Steam in the past, but you can't expect there to be unfiltered and unmanaged traffic flying around an ISP's network, it'd kill it. Anyone with any Networking experience knows this is the case and anyone who sits down and thinks about it for 5 minutes will agree that it makes sense. Roads have speed limits, roundabouts, traffic lights, etc - all to control the flow and make transport work - why on earth would data transport be any different?


  • #26
    dimko
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭dimko


    Shiminay wrote: »
    If you signed a contract, then you agreed to their terms and conditions, there's no escaping that and trying to claim otherwise makes you look foolish and diminishes your argument. It's a business contract. You pay for a service and that service comes with terms and conditions. If you're not happy with them, you choose a different service provider. That's how capitalism works.

    ISPs have to do this. ISPs have always done this to one extent or another - maybe not specifically with Steam in the past, but you can't expect there to be unfiltered and unmanaged traffic flying around an ISP's network, it'd kill it. Anyone with any Networking experience knows this is the case and anyone who sits down and thinks about it for 5 minutes will agree that it makes sense. Roads have speed limits, roundabouts, traffic lights, etc - all to control the flow and make transport work - why on earth would data transport be any different?


    And... there is always something else.

    I am USER of said network. I am not it's contract holder. Holder is Sky user for many years, so changing/cancelling contract for him is gonna be very easy. It gets better. I have opportunity to get other BB connection FREE OF CHARGE. My employer is happy to pay for it. One of my perks at work.


    So they seek for my details and they won't talk to me, cause GDPR.

    Oh Well, their loss. If other customers of theirs are affected by an issue, best of luck solving it, where there is silent failure at play. Instead of talking to somone who is up to date with technology, knows TCP/IP protocols fairly well and is willing to troubleshoot their issues. Assuming they are issues and not 'design feature and not a bug'.


  • #27
    Shiminay
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    :rolleyes:


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