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2019 Fare Determination (Monthly and Annual Tickets)

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  • 29-10-2019 12:07pm
    #1
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    This is obviously somewhat ready to go as the Taxsaver prices have been sent out to businesses.

    Changes there are minor increases in bus ticket prices and a decent reduction in the city centre add-on for rail

    The interesting bit is the individual fares and caps and so on but that needs the actual document!


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    #2
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    L1011 wrote: »
    This is obviously somewhat ready to go as the Taxsaver prices have been sent out to businesses.

    Changes there are minor increases in bus ticket prices and a decent reduction in the city centre add-on for rail

    The interesting bit is the individual fares and caps and so on but that needs the actual document!

    That side of things was never a hold up. But other things were.


  • Options
    #3
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    So will we learn more about the 90 minute switcher fare in this round?


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    #4
    sharper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    The updated rates are also up on the website https://www.taxsaver.ie/News/TaxSaver-Fares-Determination-for-2019-and-2020/

    The prices are at least standardised now if you're going bus only, rail only or combining them.


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    #5
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    CatInABox wrote: »
    So will we learn more about the 90 minute switcher fare in this round?

    Doubt it. There's a lot of talking about that but a lot of things that need to be ironed out about revenue risk and revenue allocation from what I heard but talks have been going on about it with operators.


  • Options
    #6
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    sharper wrote: »
    The updated rates are also up on the website https://www.taxsaver.ie/News/TaxSaver-Fares-Determination-for-2019-and-2020/

    The prices are at least standardised now if you're going bus only, rail only or combining them.

    I'd say most people who combine tickets probably are changing within 90 minutes so seems disappointing this free transfer is being held back. Or maybe the free transfer (whenever it happens) will only work with Leap card credit?


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  • Options
    #7
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    Another increase for a declining bus service. Cheers NTA.


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    #8
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭Nermal


    My favorite type of fare determination is the one that happens daily all over the city, between an angry bus driver and a tourist with limited English who spends thirty seconds examining each coin as if appraising a valuable diamond.


  • Options
    #9
    Joker2019
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Joker2019


    thenightman wrote: »
    Another increase for a declining bus service. Cheers NTA.

    I'm sorry but how exactly has the service been declining. This fares determination will be a step towards a flat fare which will mean reduced dwell times which will mean quicker journeys and hence an improved service. Also the NTA have blocked proposed fare increases by DB.


  • Options
    #10
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭howiya


    Joker2019 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but how exactly has the service been declining. This fares determination will be a step towards a flat fare which will mean reduced dwell times which will mean quicker journeys and hence an improved service. Also the NTA have blocked proposed fare increases by DB.

    Check out the dublinbus Twitter account. Every day there are responses to several examples of how the service is declining.

    Question. How will increasing the price of tax saver tickets help reduce dwell times?


  • Options
    #11
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    CatInABox wrote: »
    So will we learn more about the 90 minute switcher fare in this round?

    The single multimodal fare is not due until 2021,what should occur in this year's determination is the reduction in adult fares to two.

    I would suggest that 2021 should see a €2.40 90 Min Leapcard Fare,with No cash alternative.

    That is assuming the NTA don't bottle it,in the face of the usual doom laden crusading politicians,each keen to protect de poor,elderly n' downtrodden (many of whos travel will be funded by the Dept of Social Protection anyway.)

    Make no mistake,that the combination of a functioning Busconnects network coupled with significantly easier to comprehend fare,and faster Boarding network WILL increase the attractiveness of Bus Usage in general.

    Unless....the NTA blinks......:cool:;):cool:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #12
    Joker2019
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Joker2019


    howiya wrote: »
    Check out the dublinbus Twitter account. Every day there are responses to several examples of how the service is declining.

    Question. How will increasing the price of tax saver tickets help reduce dwell times?

    Slight increases hardly a huge issue the cost of taxsaver tickets and likes is competitive compared to most cities. I wouldn't judge twitter as to DBs services a lot of people there just moaning for the sake of moaning. If you have a genuine complaint email DB, phone them or write a letter I doubt everyone who tweets them actually sends a formal complaint.

    I am referring to the introduction of a flat fare not slight increases to taxsaver tickets.


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    #13
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭howiya


    Joker2019 wrote: »
    Slight increases hardly a huge issue the cost of taxsaver tickets and likes is competitive compared to most cities. I wouldn't judge twitter as to DBs services a lot of people there just moaning for the sake of moaning. If you have a genuine complaint email DB, phone them or write a letter I doubt everyone who tweets them actually sends a formal complaint.

    I am referring to the introduction of a flat fare not slight increases to taxsaver tickets.

    Inflation running at 0.7%. Dublin Bus tax saver increasing by five times that rate. Hardly a slight increase.

    In 2011, the bus journey I take cost €1.65. Now the same journey costs €2.25 but I've less chance of a bus stopping at the bus stop for me because buses are full. Again hardly a slight increase.

    You think people who tweet Dublin Bus to say they have been waiting 35 minutes at a bus stop are just doing so for the sake of moaning? That's just one of today's examples.

    I've emailed Dublin Bus several times to complain. Their response is that it's unfortunate that buses leaving the city centre are full and haven't emptied out by the time they get to my stop. Should I keep sending them emails? The response will hardly change.


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    #14
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,394 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Annual fare from sallins €1450 to be used anywhere between there and dart line and kilcock but if switch to newbridge which is 7/8 minutes down the line is €2370 and I can only go to heuston.

    Nta should have fixed this crazy price difference. It would help ease the parking issue in sallins a bit


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    #15
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    howiya wrote: »
    Check out the dublinbus Twitter account. Every day there are responses to several examples of how the service is declining.?


    do you think all the satisfied customers post on twitter praising the service? . Its a place to vent and ask whats going on.

    Id pay more attention to the published statistics on frequency, lateness and cancelled services - as an accurate gauge of the service provided. I would imagine that newspaper headlines and fines will make more of an impact that twitter comments!

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/bus/dublin-bus/reports/

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-punctuality-targets-fined-4855476-Oct2019/


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    #16
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    thenightman wrote: »
    Another increase for a declining bus service. Cheers NTA.

    I'm the first to criticise DB when deserved, but DB's passenger numbers are up significantly, that isn't a declining service!

    In 2014 they carried 118 million passengers, in 2018 143 million passengers. Big jump in just four years.

    I'd agree that DB/GA are suffering worse reliability issues, but that is mostly due to an improving economy. Passenger numbers are up significantly and traffic congestion on the roads is WAY up too. We are hitting celtic tiger levels again!

    Only major infrastructure improvements like busconnects and Metrolink will help significantly improve those issues.


  • Options
    #17
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    howiya wrote: »
    In 2011, the bus journey I take cost €1.65. Now the same journey costs €2.25 but I've less chance of a bus stopping at the bus stop for me because buses are full. Again hardly a slight increase.

    A lot of people have seen the cost of their commute come down in the last few years with the aid of the continued reduction of the price of the highest fare band, capping, multi-mode transfer rebates and the inclusion of additional stations in the short hop zone.

    Unfortunately if we are going to move to a simplified fares system with fewer fare types, tiers or a flat fares system, then some will have to pay more and some people will have to pay less, that is just the reality of converting any mitli-tier fare system into a flat fare one.


  • Options
    #18
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭howiya


    Xterminator wrote: »
    do you think all the satisfied customers post on twitter praising the service? . Its a place to vent and ask whats going on.

    Id pay more attention to the published statistics on frequency, lateness and cancelled services - as an accurate gauge of the service provided. I would imagine that newspaper headlines and fines will make more of an impact that twitter comments!

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/bus/dublin-bus/reports/

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-punctuality-targets-fined-4855476-Oct2019/

    If you think a bus turning up on time is worthy of praise on twitter you’re setting the bar low.

    No ten minute frequency on the 14 tonight so I’ve filled in the customer complaint form as suggested.


  • Options
    #19
    Joker2019
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Joker2019


    devnull wrote: »
    A lot of people have seen the cost of their commute come down in the last few years with the aid of the continued reduction of the price of the highest fare band, capping, multi-mode transfer rebates and the inclusion of additional stations in the short hop zone.

    Unfortunately if we are going to move to a simplified fares system with fewer fare types, tiers or a flat fares system, then some will have to pay more and some people will have to pay less, that is just the reality of converting any mitli-tier fare system into a flat fare one.

    Exactly most people are going from the outer suburbs to the city centre journeys of around 8km or so.


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    #20
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Luas and GoAhead don't get the fare revenue anyway, so is it just DB that are resisting the single fare model? Couldn't they be moved to the same model of operation as the private operators?


  • Options
    #21
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    howiya wrote: »
    I've emailed Dublin Bus several times to complain. Their response is that it's unfortunate that buses leaving the city centre are full and haven't emptied out by the time they get to my stop. Should I keep sending them emails? The response will hardly change.

    No, its pointless emailing DB. The route either needs bigger or extra buses by the sound of things. That's the NTAs area of expertise.


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    #22
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Rest (edit - no, not all of it - just some more data than before...) is out
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Fares_Determination_2019_Monthly_and_Annual.pdf

    Not read yet


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    #23
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Just monthly and annual fares at moment.

    That would indicate that they are buying themselves extra time to try and reach agreement on the other fares


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    #24
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Announcement
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/nta-announces-annual-and-monthly-fares/

    A summary of the changes can be found in the following post.
    The National Transport Authority (NTA) is publishing the first of two parts of its fare determination today, which deals specifically with monthly and annual tickets and will take effect on December 1. Monthly and annual tickets account for some 15% of all fare revenue.

    Details of other cash and TFI Leap fares will be published in February and will take effect at the end of March.

    One of the factors determining the fare changes is the move to a simplified fare structure in the Dublin area, as envisaged under our BusConnects plan.

    The BusConnects programme for Dublin will see the transformation of Dublin’s bus system to ensure journeys made by bus will be fast, reliable, punctual, convenient, and affordable.

    To deliver on this part of the programme, a revised fare structure is required for public transport in the city that will support seamless movement between different public transport services and modes without a financial penalty.

    This is likely to mean that as the new bus network is rolled out, monthly and annual fares in the Dublin area will become consistent across all public transport, regardless of operator. Today’s announcement marks a move in that direction.

    Some annual and monthly fares are to be adjusted upwards, while others are to be adjusted downward, but many will stay the same.

    There is no change to either the rail-only annual or monthly ticket for the Short Hop Zone, which will remain at €1,450 and €145 respectively.

    The corresponding bus-only tickets will increase slightly from €1,400 and €140 to €1,450 and €145 respectively. This covers routes operated by both Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead Ireland.

    The annual and monthly Luas-only tickets increase by 7.4% to €1,300 and €130.

    However, customers using a Luas/Dublin Bus/Iarnród Éireann ticket for the SHZ will see their monthly fare fall 4.9% from €205 to €195 and from €2,050 to €1,950 for an annual ticket.

    Annual and monthly tickets for Iarnród Éireann commuters are virtually unchanged. There will be no increase in fares for passengers between Dublin and towns such as Enfield, Newbridge, Wicklow, Kildare, Drogheda, and Portarlington.

    Annual tickets for Bus Éireann passengers in the Eastern Commuter areas will drop by over 4%. Passengers in towns such as Ashbourne, Kilcock, and Celbridge will see their fare fall from €1,548 to €1,480.

    Passengers in Drogheda, Trim, Newbridge, and Baltinglass will be saving over one hundred euro when their annual fare drops from €2,448 to €2,340, with passengers in Dundalk, Mullingar and Arklow making an even greater saving of €118.

    There is good news for Bus Éireann customers in the regional cities as well, particularly for students, with monthly fares dropping 12% from €59.50 to €52 in Limerick and Galway. In Cork the fare drops 6% from €156 to €146.

    The Authority is setting fares for 2020 by way of two fares determinations. The first determination outlines adjustments for all monthly and annual tickets (including Taxsaver tickets) with an effective implementation date of 1 December 2019. The second determination will address adjustments for all other fares and will be published in March 2020 with changes effective in April 2020.

    This approach was taken this year for a number of reasons. By delaying the process of determining a large proportion of fares to April 2020, the Authority will have greater clarity with regard to the level of PSO subvention available for the incoming year, and therefore on the revenue requirements for subsidised public transport services.

    Secondly, the Authority, being mindful of prevailing economic conditions, wishes to ensure that adjustments in fares can be equitably made for the benefit of the travelling public and operators alike, in light of these circumstances.

    Furthermore, the introduction of fare adjustments in April 2020 will allow the Authority to have a much clearer indication of the most up-to-date trends in public transport usage from the preceding year when making its determination.

    Anne Graham, CEO of the National Transport Authority, said:

    “The NTA will continue to work to make fares as simple and consistent as possible. In today’s determination we have seen some fares go up slightly and some come down.

    Overall fare revenue will increase by less than 2%, which is in line with inflation, so this is certainly not a revenue-generating exercise.”

    A summary of the changes can be found in the following post.


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    #25
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    A summary of the main changes by service taken from the overall report.

    Seems to be a few reductions, some increases and a decent number staying the same.

    Dublin city bus services operated by Dublin Bus and Go Ahead
    • Increase Dublin city bus monthly and annual SHZ tickets by 3.6% to achieve a common Dublin city fare across all modes
    • Reduce Dublin city bus/Luas & Irish Rail SHZ monthly and annual tickets for the second successive year by -4.9% to achieve a common Dublin city fare across all modes
    • 0% increase on Dublin city bus/Irish Rail all services, and CIE all services annual tickets
    • Increase Dublin city bus/Luas monthly & annual tickets by 5.9% to achieve a common Dublin city fare across all modes
    • Reduce Dublin city bus/Luas monthly & annual add-on tickets by -9.1%
    Luas services operated by Transdev
    • Remove adult and child 30 day zonal tickets to encourage more cost effective leap alternative
    • Adjust student 30 day zonal tickets between 0% and 1.7%
    • Adjust monthly and annual fares by 7.4% to €130 and €1,300 respectively, thus ensuring value for money is maintained within the SHZ
    • Reduce Luas/Dublin city bus monthly & annual add-on tickets by 9.1%
    Rail Services operated by Iarnród Éireann
    • 0% increase on Dublin SHZ monthly and annual tickets to achieve a common Dublin city fare across all modes in preparation for BusConnects
    • Reduce Irish Rail/Dublin city bus/Luas monthly & annual tickets for the second successive year by -4.9% to achieve a common Dublin city fare across all modes
    • 0% adjustment on all other multi-modal monthly & annual fares in the SHZ
    • Average reduction of -3.8% for children’s intercity tickets in line with NTA policy
    • 0% increase for majority of intercity adult monthly and annual tickets
    • 0% increase across all student monthly intercity tickets
    • 0% increase across all Cork Commuter services
    Bus services outside Dublin operated in the main by Bus Éireann and Go Ahead

    Eastern Regional Zone
    • 0% increase on adult monthly zonal tickets
    • Reduce adult annual zonal tickets by -4.4% to bring in line with NTA monthly/annual pricing policy
    • Introduce new monthly zonal tickets for students and children in 2020 to standardise product offering
    Regional cities
    • Adult annual city tickets reduced by average -1.2%, further aligning monthly/annual product ratio in line with NTA pricing policy
    • 0% increase across all adult monthly city tickets with the exception of Cork Green Zone,which will be reduced by -5%.
    • Student monthly tickets reduced across all regional cities by average of -6.5% in line with NTA policy on adult/student discount.
    Stage Carriage
    • Adult monthly and annual tickets will see no increase in 2020
    Multi-operator tickets
    • 0% increase on Cork Commuter zone Bus Éireann & Irish Rail shared tickets.
    • 0% increase on Bus Éireann & Irish Rail shared annual zonal and all services tickets for second successive year


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    #26
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Luas solo ticket changes are the main thing that wasn't already public, as Transdev sell their own taxsavers and it was just Irish Rail sold ones they were out

    I would have thought they'd need to cut the all modes Dublin ticket by more to get it where it needs to be. May just about be worthwhile for me to go up to it now, one bus a week would cover it


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