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39 people found dead in trailer in UK

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Comments

  • #662
    Calypso Realm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Calypso Realm


    KM792 wrote: »
    Truck driver due to appear in court tomorrow..

    Where did you hear this? Not mentioned by Essex Police in conference a while ago.


  • #663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The picture on social media brings home the very human side and reality of this. May whoever closed the door on that trailer or had any involvement suffer for a long time.


    Agreed. They'll still get the benefit of being incarcerated in a FIRST WORLD judicial system though. A system more tolerable than where the victims originated


  • #664
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    While we do not have the full story, the victims are unlikely to be the 'poorest of the poor'. The poorest of the poor are simply too poor to be able to afford to buy their way out.

    You have to raise significant cash to pay for this- you can only do that if you have capital and family to help. Likely to be from lower middle class/upper working class families. Sure, 'poor' by our standards but not necessarily in Vietnam or China etc.

    The figure being thrown around is £30k. Let's put it this way, how many of us here could rustle up £30k.


  • #665
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Wan on the BBC said some of the Vietnamese would pay upto 30k each to get trafficked half-way across the world, with a view to earn even more in the long term (in the black market), and then send it back on WesternUnion.
    Many also take out shady loans and even sell off the families farmland to pay the gangmasters for this future investment "gamble".

    I like a (small) gamble now and again, and might even do the euromillions tonight, but these type of huge fiscal (and human) 'risk vs reward' scenarios are plain stupid.


  • #666
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Esperanza Whispering Receiver wrote: »

    I like a (small) gamble now and again, and might even do the euromillions tonight, but these type of huge fiscal (and human) 'risk vs reward' scenarios are plain stupid.


    No they are not. It is an extremely lucrative market and compared to the amount of people being smuggled/trafficked the odd deal going tits up is worth the risk.

    Like drug smuggling. It's worth the risk of the odd seizure or two by customs if 50 others are getting through.

    Risk is well worth it.


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  • #667
    mikhail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    partyguinness wrote: »
    The figure being thrown around is £30k. Let's put it this way, how many of us here could rustle up £30k.
    That may be the life savings and more of an extended family. I've heard of people in parts of Asia remortgaging their home to send a kid to get a masters in the west. So maybe not poor before, but quite possibly close to destitute now.


  • #668
    KM792
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭KM792


    Calypso Realm wrote: »
    Where did you hear this? Not mentioned by Essex Police in conference a while ago.


    It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.


  • #669
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    KM792 wrote: »
    It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.

    Probably just another example of a rag not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.


  • #670
    KM792
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭KM792


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Probably just another example of a rag not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.


    Just checked,article has been amended...the truck drivers name appeared "by accident"..what are the chances of that.This story just gets weirder..
    "
    This afternoon his name appeared on a draft list for a hearing to take place at Chelmsford Magistrates' Court tomorrow followed by a case at the city's crown court on Monday. But the CPS and police insisted it was an error by court staff."


  • #671
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,455 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

    I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.


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  • #672
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,577 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

    I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.

    A crack down on traffickers and those prepared to employ this kind of labour is badly needed.

    There should be no excuses like 'I didn't know their status', for the employers.


  • #673
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    partyguinness wrote: »
    No they are not. It is an extremely lucrative market and compared to the amount of people being smuggled/trafficked the odd deal going tits up is worth the risk.
    It's worth the risk of the odd seizure or two by customs if 50 others are getting through.
    Risk is well worth it.
    Lucrative for the gang masters, not for the subjects. Which is the point I was making. It's a stupid gamble for them (the subjects) to take, deciding to sell off their own farmlands or borrowing 30k which may take a decade to pay-off before they will see any fiscal gains to wire back home.

    It's only 1 out of every 3-400 containers that are checked, someone from their ports said on the news earlier. Zeb (one of many ports) sends 3,000pday into the Uk. Likely 60 everyday don't get a full x-ray and physical full cargo inspection, maybe a dozen.


  • #674
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,577 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?


  • #675
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Infini wrote: »
    It's sad indeed of course that it happened but at the same time I do feel it's a little hard to have alot of sympathy either. They're throwing their lives away to enter a country that doesnt want them to be honest. Not only that but because they tried to enter illegally they ended up losing their lives for nothing. Of course the real lowlifes are those who traffic them illegally but at the same time how did they get in there to begin with, because I've heard of stories in the past of people like this breaking into trucks to stow away only to get trapped in the container with noone knowing until they're already dead.

    It's hard to have sympathy for people who died a horrible death. You need to look at yourself.


  • #676
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭1641


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

    I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.


    An article I read on the "business" indicated that the family often finance this by a loan/debt to the smugglers. Presumably to be repaid from the transported son/daughter's earnings.

    In some cases the people transported to what they think are good jobs will actually be kept in conditions of servitude/slavery by the gang until they repay the debt (possibly never).

    The family left behind will always be vulnerable to the smugglers as collateral.


  • #677
    screamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭screamer


    Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world. It’s why we have borders in the first place. As the world population increases, and life gets tougher, we’ll see a swing to strengthening borders.


  • #678
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,801 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?

    I'd say most definitely. must have been a looking for him,


  • #679
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,577 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    screamer wrote: »
    Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world. It’s why we have borders in the first place. As the world population increases, and life gets tougher, we’ll see a swing to strengthening borders.

    Nobody asked us did we want to 'take these people in'.
    This was a criminal operation. And like most criminal operations, innocent people are the victims.


  • #680
    coastwatch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭coastwatch


    paul71 wrote: »
    You are jumping to same type of assumptions about the trailer owners that UK media did about the driver when they plastered his personal details all over the news.
    More likely, perfectly legitimate company in Ireland registers assets in another EU country because the registration process and insurance is cheaper. Said trailer while hired out to a legitimate transport company is broken into somewhere in Holland by 40 people while the driver on an overnight is asleep, 40th person seals other 39 in and tragedy occurs.

    I wasn't making any assumptions (or casting aspersions) about the trailer or truck owners, just pointing out the Irish/NI connections and location, not a million miles away from where gangs involved in smuggling rackets have operated for many years. Probably not as much money to be made in cigarettes and diesel anymore.


  • #681
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭1641


    screamer wrote: »
    Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world.


    I don't really see any suggestion that we should take the whole world. We can have sympathy with these people though. It is the smugglers that need to tackled ferociously. I am sure that is very hard to do. All (most) containers are not checked even in countries that enforce their own borders, eg, the US.


    As someone said on RTE news, not one person has ever being charged in Ireland with trafficking.


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  • #682
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,689 ✭✭✭Infini


    KM792 wrote: »
    It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.

    Daily Fail is the biggest rag in Britain I'd be EXTREMELY sceptical of anything and everything from that bogroll of a publication.


  • #683
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?
    Could have just arrived too and presented himself.


  • #684
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,129 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A crack down on traffickers and those prepared to employ this kind of labour is badly needed.

    There should be no excuses like 'I didn't know their status', for the employers.

    The moderm Left will accuse anyone doing that of racism though.


  • #685
    buttercups88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭buttercups88


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?

    Or arriving in to support family member


  • #686
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭1641


    Danzy wrote: »
    The moderm Left will accuse anyone doing that of racism though.

    I know you are desperate to score a point, whatever the situation, but trade unions have been raising this issue for years.


  • #687
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,129 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    1641 wrote: »
    I know you are desperate to score a point, whatever the situation, but trade unions have been raising this issue for years.

    Th at is why I said the modern Left, the left is a different beast now.

    I always support trade unions, they, co op movements etc were some of the finest moments in our history and further afield.


  • #688
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,577 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Danzy wrote: »
    The moderm Left will accuse anyone doing that of racism though.

    I doubt the 'modern left' or the past or future left would have a problem with a crack down on exploitative traffickers and exploitative bosses.


  • #689
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    screamer wrote: »
    Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world. It’s why we have borders in the first place. As the world population increases, and life gets tougher, we’ll see a swing to strengthening borders.

    The fact that 39 people suffocated or froze to death inside a refrigerated trailer trying to get in to the UK would indicate to me that the borders have already been strengthened tbh, illegals will find it fairly difficult to saunter right into here, the UK, or many other western countries.


  • #690
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I doubt the 'modern left' or the past or future left would have a problem with a crack down on exploitative traffickers and exploitative bosses.

    Well they help them out in the Med.


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  • #691
    Calypso Realm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Calypso Realm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There should be no excuses like 'I didn't know their status', for the employers.

    Employers face very heavy fines for employing illegals so checks are vital. That is not to say it acts as a deterrent for some of the more unscrupulous ones who want cheap labour, but nonetheless the fines do exist. In addition some documents can be forged, of course. While,it's impossible to enforce 100%, simply because they haven't got the staff, workplaces are frequently raided in an effort to catch illegals.

    Likewise with renting, landlords are obliged to carry out 'Right to Rent' checks on prospective tenants before letting to them.


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