Parliament Buildings on College Green

derrymcorry · 22-10-2019 9:23pm #1

How come the seat of government is in Leinster House and not the purpose-built Parliament Buildings on College Green?

Is there any prospect of the government moving back into the building? I personally think it would be better.

johnnyskeleton · 22-10-2019 9:32pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

How come the seat of government is in Leinster House and not the purpose-built Parliament Buildings on College Green?

Is there any prospect of the government moving back into the building? I personally think it would be better.

Grattans Parliament building was bought by La Touche bank (now Bank of Ireland). They like having it.

When the Free State was proclaimed, they had limited money and buying Leinster House was cheaper.

The associations of Grattans parliament with Aristocratic faux rule still existed in folk memory, whereas Leinster House had positive connections e.g. parts of the white house were modelled on it, and America was seen as a model for the nascent Irish Republic.

Modern government is more bigger than 18th century gentlemens talking shops, and so Grattans Parliament is probably too small to accommodate the Dail, Seanad and all the offices etc. The Dept of the Taoiseach building abbuts onto Leinster House now.

Finally, it is what it is. They sit there because they sit there

derrymcorry · 22-10-2019 9:49pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Grattans Parliament building was bought by La Touche bank (now Bank of Ireland). They like having it.

When the Free State was proclaimed, they had limited money and buying Leinster House was cheaper.

The associations of Grattans parliament with Aristocratic faux rule still existed in folk memory, whereas Leinster House had positive connections e.g. parts of the white house were modelled on it, and America was seen as a model for the nascent Irish Republic.

Modern government is more bigger than 18th century gentlemens talking shops, and so Grattans Parliament is probably too small to accommodate the Dail, Seanad and all the offices etc. The Dept of the Taoiseach building abbuts onto Leinster House now.

Finally, it is what it is. They sit there because they sit there

How many seats were in the Commons chamber? I can't find any pictures online.

derrymcorry · 22-10-2019 11:09pm

It would be more aesthetically pleasing to have the College Green Parliament as the seat of Government. It's certainly more architectural.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 2:13am

derrymcorry wrote: »

How many seats were in the Commons chamber? I can't find any pictures online.

The Commons Chamber was gutted as part of the deal with Bank of Ireland to ensure the building wouldn't be used as a parliament again.

The House of Lords is still intact however. You can visit.

Security reasons were another consideration to not using College Green for the Free State parliament. Leinster House being much more secure and defendable from any potential anti treaty incursions.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 2:58am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The Commons Chamber was gutted as part of the deal with Bank of Ireland to ensure the building wouldn't be used as a parliament again.

The House of Lords is still intact however. You can visit.

Security reasons were another consideration to not using College Green for the Free State parliament. Leinster House being much more secure and defendable from any potential anti treaty incursions.

The security situation has changed. The Commons Chamber could be restored.

Personally I would like the Government to buy 100 acres in North County Dublin and build a full parliamentary estate like Stormont.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 3:56am

derrymcorry wrote: »

The security situation has changed. The Commons Chamber could be restored.

Personally I would like the Government to buy 100 acres in North County Dublin and build a full parliamentary estate like Stormont.

We have a full parliamentary estate at Merrion St.

I don't think it's wise to go about building a new parliamentary estate when Dublin is crying out for public transport and housing. And what would you suggest you do with the old estate?more hotels.

johnnyskeleton · 23-10-2019 8:33am

derrymcorry wrote: »

Personally I would like the Government to buy 100 acres in North County Dublin and build a full parliamentary estate like Stormont.

While we're at it, Id like to seem them decentralise government to ease traffic and pressure on house prices. Maybe have the Oireachtas meet somewhere central, like Athlone.

But decentralisation was tried and it met with beavy resistance from the civil service. And people woild object to lessening Dublins status as the capital. So we will probably stick with whay we have

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 9:13am

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

While we're at it, Id like to seem them decentralise government to ease traffic and pressure on house prices. Maybe have the Oireachtas meet somewhere central, like Athlone.

But decentralisation was tried and it met with beavy resistance from the civil service. And people woild object to lessening Dublins status as the capital. So we will probably stick with whay we have

Decentralisation as it was was an absolute shítshow of an idea with an even worse implementation.

Decentralisation is a great idea if implemented correctly. Instead of having a "one for everyone in the audience" approach, you should focus on say moving proper chunks to Cork and Limerick.

The whole point is to create a critical mass. By doing so you change the gravitational pull of Dublin and reduce our dependence on it.

listermint · 23-10-2019 9:16am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Decentralisation as it was was an absolute shítshow of an idea with an even worse implementation.

Decentralisation is a great idea if implemented correctly. Instead of having a "one for everyone in the audience" approach, you should focus on say moving proper chunks to Cork and Limerick.

The whole point is to create a critical mass. By doing so you change the gravitational pull of Dublin and reduce our dependence on it.

Why not Waterford.

Cork and Limerick are actually doing pretty bloody well by all accounts.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 9:26am

listermint wrote: »

Why not Waterford.

Cork and Limerick are actually doing pretty bloody well by all accounts.

Jesus. Way to miss the bloody point.

A good start for Waterford was moving the city boundary. That didn't go well.

---

Anyway, don't we own a load of land at Thornton Hall still that we bought for a prison??? Hardly need more land in North Dublin.

El Tarangu · 23-10-2019 9:35am

I actually think it's a nice idea, but one thing that leaps out to me is the lack of parking (many TDs, even those coming from Dublin, drive into the Dáil).

I remember it was brought up when the state took a large stake in BoI at the time of the crash; this would have been the time to push for this proposal, when the state would have had an enormous amount of leverage; I think that ship has sailed, now.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 12:29pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Jesus. Way to miss the bloody point.

A good start for Waterford was moving the city boundary. That didn't go well.

---

Anyway, don't we own a load of land at Thornton Hall still that we bought for a prison??? Hardly need more land in North Dublin.

What I suggested was that we acquire land of approximately 100 acres in Fingal and develop a purpose-built parliamentary estate just like Stormont.

I would suggest a mile-long avenue leading up to the building and a Greek classical style Parliament Buildings. A large building with a dome.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 1:20pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

What I suggested was that we acquire land of approximately 100 acres in Fingal and develop a purpose-built parliamentary estate just like Stormont.

I would suggest a mile-long avenue leading up to the building and a Greek classical style Parliament Buildings. A large building with a dome.

And what's so special about Stormont that we'd want to replicate it?

El Tarangu · 23-10-2019 1:27pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

What I suggested was that we acquire land of approximately 100 acres in Fingal and develop a purpose-built parliamentary estate just like Stormont.

I would suggest a mile-long avenue leading up to the building and a Greek classical style Parliament Buildings. A large building with a dome.

It's not only TDs who visit the Dáil; many regulators, state agencies, journalists, etc. would have meetings in the Dáil on a regular basis. Most of whom's offices are in the city centre; moving the Dáil to a more remote location would pose a large inconvenience to a great number of people.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 1:27pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And what's so special about Stormont that we'd want to replicate it?

I despise it but I like the way it is modelled in that is situated on a parkland estate. That could be replicated in North County Dublin.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 1:30pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

It's not only TDs who visit the Dáil; many regulators, state agencies, journalists, etc. would have meetings in the Dáil on a regular basis. Most of whom's offices are in the city centre; moving the Dáil to a more remote location would pose a large inconvenience to a great number of people.

Remote location?

North of Swords is hardly remote?

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2019 1:43pm

Ah good luck. This is just garbage.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 1:45pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah good luck. This is just garbage.

What do you mean?

I merely suggested moving the seat of Government to another location.

El Tarangu · 23-10-2019 2:29pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

Remote location?

North of Swords is hardly remote?

Well, yes - compared to Kildare St.

Most government depts are clustered around the city centre, often within walking distance of the Dáil; moving the parliament to Fingal would add an almost two-hour trip to any politician visiting a senior civil servant for a meeting, or vice versa.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 2:33pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

Well, yes - compared to Kildare St.

Most government depts are clustered around the city centre, often within walking distance of the Dáil; moving the parliament to Fingal would add an almost two-hour trip to any politician visiting a senior civil servant for a meeting, or vice versa.

It's near the airport.

El Tarangu · 23-10-2019 2:45pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

It's near the airport.

that's true, but I think TDs spend a much larger proportion of their time meeting civil servants than visiting dignitaries.

Spanish Eyes · 23-10-2019 2:50pm

Move it when the Metro North is running. Swords would be good. :P

No parking on College Green, so that's a non runner.

Anyway it's all pie in the sky, there is NO WAY they will move from Leinster House. Ever, it is (from Merrion Street anyway), a fitting building for our Dail.

IAmTheReign · 23-10-2019 3:18pm

derrymcorry wrote: »

What I suggested was that we acquire land of approximately 100 acres in Fingal and develop a purpose-built parliamentary estate just like Stormont.

I would suggest a mile-long avenue leading up to the building and a Greek classical style Parliament Buildings. A large building with a dome.

But why though? What possible benefit would this proposal provide to justify what would likely be a massively expensive construction project? Maybe if you could explain why you think this would be a good idea people might engage with you. And why Greek classical? (btw not to nitpick but the Greeks didn't typically build large domed roofs. Domes were more a Roman thing)

Leinster House is an important building, both architecturally and historically. The only way the government is likely to move is if there's a very strong reason to. I don't think wanting to waste taxpayers money on a grand, expensive folly would qualify.

[Deleted User] · 23-10-2019 3:53pm

Leinster House was a temporary solution that became permanent. Before that it was owned by the RDS.

I think it reflects our history given the changes over time - aristocrats home - they move to London - it is reused for lectures and as a museum - we become independent - it is used as a temporary parliament as it had meeting rooms etc. - new country can't afford to build a purpose built parliament given the destruction and other more important things so makes do and goes from there.

Contrast that with Stormont - a big look at us purpose built building on a hill. Not at all connected to the area or people.

derrymcorry · 23-10-2019 5:38pm

I was just saying that Stormont could be replicated in a united Ireland by building a proper parliament in Fingal. A big estate with a stand-out building.

Could College Green not be restored as a parliament?

PeadarCo · 23-10-2019 7:22pm

derrymcorry wrote:

I was just saying that Stormont could be replicated in a united Ireland by building a proper parliament in Fingal. A big estate with a stand-out building.

Why what's the benefit? Why spend all the money required and move politicians away from the general public by putting them out in some big modern palace? How is Stormont so much better than Leinster house? I appreciate you like the astetics but beyond that what's better about it? However it's astetics have done nothing for the actual work that has gone on inside as based on the last 100 odd years Leinster House has been far superior.

ancapailldorcha · 23-10-2019 7:32pm

Mod: OP has been banned for reregging. Consequently, they will not be contributing any more to this thread.

The Border Poll Maestro · 24-10-2019 4:07pm

I'd be in favour of looking at restoring the old College Green buildings as they were a purpose-built parliament unlike Leinster House.

No to the Fingal Stormont Estate though.

Boulevardier · 24-10-2019 7:15pm

I would love to see College Green being used for the Dail and Seanad.

It is an awful pity the free staters were too philistine to take those buildings and use them. It is additional proof if it were needed they they were terrified of upsetting private property rights. The state started as it meant to go on.

Topgear on Dave · 24-10-2019 7:45pm

I heard it mentioned a few times that the bank should give the building to the state but very little came of it. I assume the bank (bail out or no bail out) told the state to go and do one.

It may not be suited or needed now for parliamentary business but would be ideal as a state building, a museum or art gallery of some type perhaps? With a pedestrianised College Green, the parliament building and Trinity could be amazing.

Parliament Buildings on College Green

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