Constant delays on Intercity trains

Emme · 07-10-2019 1:18pm #1

Intercity trains often arrive in to Heuston station 5 or 10 minutes later than the stated arrival time. This is irritating but lately the delays have been longer. Sometimes there is a good reason for the delays. A passenger took ill at Muine Bheag last week and the train was delayed because they were waiting for an ambulance. Today the 6.30am Carlow train was delayed at Hazelhatch because a passenger took ill and they were waiting for an ambulance. Some people from that train got onto the already overcrowded 6am Waterford train when there was no sign of an ambulance or the Carlow train going anywhere. There was only one track in operation and several trains were delayed by at least 20 minutes.

I don't know why the person on the Carlow train needed the ambulance today but I have heard of people fainting on overcrowded trains and needing medical attention as a result. This causes delays on that train and often others behind it. The delays tend to happen on peak trains which are more overcrowded than other trains.

Irish Rail are very slow to inform people of delays or let people know the reason for delays. Workers commuting by train need to know what's going on so they can let their employers know if they're going to be late because of the train again :rolleyes:

Irish Rail have used the excuse that they can do nothing about the overcrowding because they are waiting until 2022 or 2023 for new carriages. This is too long to wait. Already overcrowding is having a serious impact on the timeliness of trains and if a solution is not found something more serious could take place than a passenger fainting on board.

Irish Rail's twitter account is a litany of excuses one after the other. It is not acceptable to have passengers late for work most days. They have to make up the time in work which often means getting a later train home. This may mean a delay of an hour which results in babysitting/creche arrangements having to be changed.

Irish Rail needs to get its act together and improve capacity on Intercity trains well before 2022. Passenger health and safety is at serious risk with current overcrowding.:mad:

I don't have experience of commuting on the DART but I hear it is just as bad.

AAAAAAAAA · 07-10-2019 1:26pm

Emme wrote: »

Irish Rail have used the excuse that they can do nothing about the overcrowding because they are waiting until 2022 or 2023 for new carriages. This is too long to wait. Already overcrowding is having a serious impact on the timeliness of trains and if a solution is not found something more serious could take place than a passenger fainting on board.

[...]

Irish Rail needs to get its act together and improve capacity on Intercity trains well before 2022.

Okay, so what are your suggestions to improve capacity other than ordering more carriages, which we have done? We have an awkward gauge to use so we can't buy them secondhand, and we can't speed up the order because that's simply how long it will take for the manufacturers to construct new railcar sets.

You must have some idea of what to do since you have completely disregarded what Irish Rail have said?

camroc76 · 07-10-2019 1:27pm

You are right, its only getting worse, I have regularly decided to miss the 17:10 train to Athlone in the evening because of the overcrowding issues, admittedly this train empties quiet abit in Newbridge, but I am not prepared to pay 4k for a ticket and then have to stand.

Its sad to think that people are fainting cause they are standing from Carlow and further afield.

Jem72 · 07-10-2019 1:35pm

It has been years since I've gotten into Edgeworthstown less than 10 minutes late on an evening train from Connolly towards Sligo - late trains are just chronic on that route.

In terms of the overcrowding they could help matters by getting the finger out and ordering some trains. They've been talking about a mythical 41 car 22K order for at least 5 years. There's been discussion about refurbishing parked trains or buying in second hand stock - neither of which is possible for at least as long. The present dream is to buy 600 cars for suburban use that are going to use batteries instead of diesel - a largely untried technology. I won't be at all surprised if this turns out to be yet another dead end in a year's time and then it's back to the drawing board again. Then there will be a Brexit recession and no money again.

Xterminator · 07-10-2019 1:38pm

camroc76 wrote: »

Its sad to think that people are fainting cause they are standing from Carlow and further afield.

Hey, you dont suppose this person might have had an underlying medical condition and that their medical condition may have caused the medical issue? That's a bit of an assumption you are making.

now i get your frustration, but there are some issues IR cannot be held accountable for.

some issues like capital investment are not at the discretion of IR either they are down to the government of the day. Our country has recently exited a period of financial upheaval, and the TFI have ordered the carriages, presumably when they had the approval to pay for them.

As far as i can see all of the public transport services are bursting at the seams. the process for getting a new bus is just a bit easier/quicker than a new train!

why rant at IR for the things they cannot control ? I eman i find enough things that are culpable for, like seat booking system etc.

Emme · 07-10-2019 2:04pm

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

Okay, so what are your suggestions to improve capacity other than ordering more carriages, which we have done? We have an awkward gauge to use so we can't buy them secondhand, and we can't speed up the order because that's simply how long it will take for the manufacturers to construct new railcar sets.

You must have some idea of what to do since you have completely disregarded what Irish Rail have said?

1. Ban the food cart on peak services because people currently have to stand in the aisles.
2. Ban bicycles and especially fold up bikes on peak services.
3. Ban the booking of seats on peak services.

It's not much but it's all I can think of.

gwalk · 07-10-2019 2:09pm

Emme wrote: »

1. Ban the food cart on peak services because people currently have to stand in the aisles.
2. Ban bicycles and especially fold up bikes on peak services.
3. Ban the booking of seats on peak services.

It's not much but it's all I can think of.

4. Ban the FTP holders from peak services :rolleyes:

Jem72 · 07-10-2019 2:29pm

Irish Rail introduced a new online booking application a couple of years ago to great fanfare. One would hope that this system would have some form of yield management enabled yet on Sligo, every single service is exactly the same price (12.49 Connolly to Edgeworthstown) no matter how far in advance I book and regardless of whether I choose Saver, Semi-Flexible or Flexible.

Perhaps introducing a 7.99 or 9.99 Saver fare for down trains before 4PM when the trains are a little less rammed might help matters.

I think everyone gets a bit lost in apportioning blame between Irish Rail, CIE, NTA and the Department of Transport. This is exactly why the NTA was created. If you create yet another organisation as a repository of blame, all 4 organisations can avoid doing anything by blaming somebody else. And the result is a clear need for a rolling-stock order drifting along for 5 years and nobody doing a thing about it.

Emme · 07-10-2019 2:35pm

gwalk wrote: »

4. Ban the FTP holders from peak services :rolleyes:

No need to ban them. They are voting with their feet. Like everyone else unless the really have to travel they don't.

punisher5112 · 07-10-2019 2:52pm

Emme wrote: »

No need to ban them. They are voting with their feet. Like everyone else unless the really have to travel they don't.

That's not totally true, many free travel pass holders travel at the busiest of times.

Emme · 07-10-2019 3:08pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's not totally true, many free travel pass holders travel at the busiest of times.

They still do but not to the extent they did before. Not on the Waterford line anyway.

Del.Monte · 07-10-2019 3:08pm

Pissy little, undersized trains (the so-called Inter City 22000 railcars) are unfit for purpose but then again so is CIE/Irish Rail.

goingnowhere · 07-10-2019 4:18pm

You want to go back to the rust bucket Mk2d's with no working AC, unusable toilets and manual doors? 22k is the best of its type by a mile and puts in reliability numbers 5-10 times what came before it.

Jamie2k9 · 07-10-2019 9:10pm

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

Okay, so what are your suggestions to improve capacity other than ordering more carriages, which we have done? We have an awkward gauge to use so we can't buy them secondhand, and we can't speed up the order because that's simply how long it will take for the manufacturers to construct new railcar sets.

You must have some idea of what to do since you have completely disregarded what Irish Rail have said?

Enough of the propaganda, no new trains have been ordered (unless that has changed last week). Staff and those in charge of social media are blatantly lying to passengers. The ICRs are currently ruining 1 year late and that assumes there is no technical problems to delay them more if ordered.

I do accept its not fully down to IE but I also don't think they are applying enough pressure.

Jamie2k9 · 07-10-2019 9:16pm

camroc76 wrote: »

You are right, its only getting worse, I have regularly decided to miss the 17:10 train to Athlone in the evening because of the overcrowding issues, admittedly this train empties quiet abit in Newbridge, but I am not prepared to pay 4k for a ticket and then have to stand.

Its sad to think that people are fainting cause they are standing from Carlow and further afield.

You stand from Kilkenny and/or Waterford on some services if you decide to respect reservations.

They still do but not to the extent they did before. Not on the Waterford line anyway.

Really find that hard to believe however Dublin Coach might have taken business away from the train in recent months.

Intercity trains often arrive in to Heuston station 5 or 10 minutes later than the stated arrival time.

IE twitter will rolling out the annual leaves on the line excuse in the nest week or two

It's a genuine problem however IE use it when its not.

Del.Monte · 07-10-2019 9:32pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

You want to go back to the rust bucket Mk2d's with no working AC, unusable toilets and manual doors? 22k is the best of its type by a mile and puts in reliability numbers 5-10 times what came before it.

Happily, the toilets need upgrading but apart from that the MkIIs were the best carriages CIE ever had - spacious, quiet internally due to their layout, no incessant underfloor engine noise and proper snack/dining cars, massive space for parcels/mails/bikes etc. As for the doors - wow, 150+ years of manual doors and we managed perfectly well. CIE go and indulge a fetish of the last CEO and order sardine cans with no SDO and you think they are wonderful?

punisher5112 · 07-10-2019 9:36pm

I find the trains cramped and no proper lay out for those that have no choice to stand.

Working class heroes · 08-10-2019 8:19am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Happily, the toilets need upgrading but apart from that the MkIIs were the best carriages CIE ever had - spacious, quiet internally due to their layout, no incessant underfloor engine noise and proper snack/dining cars, massive space for parcels/mails/bikes etc. As for the doors - wow, 150+ years of manual doors and we managed perfectly well. CIE go and indulge a fetish of the last CEO and order sardine cans with no SDO and you think they are wonderful?

And who will close these manual doors?:)

hurleronditch · 08-10-2019 8:31am

OSI wrote: »

Apart from the fold up bikes that don't take up much space anyway, bikes are banned on most train services during peak hours. The staff in the stations couldn't give a **** though and I would see a number of full size bikes on DART, Communter and Intercity trains during peak hours almost every time I take one.

A fold up bike definitely takes up the space of at least 2 people on a busy commuter services, they are quite unwieldy and should be banned at peak.

I’ve just moved back from abroad and one big thing where I was was the education of riders on peak services of how to be considerate to other users. Backpacks go on the floor between your feet if you’re standing, you never lean against the rail or wall if you don’t have a seat as you take up more space and minimise the holding on space for other standers. Now that I’m on a IR commuter service the amount of people I see who could free up massive amounts of space is crazy.

The other thing I’d do for trains used on commuter routes is rip out about half the seats. I’m currently sitting on a diesel commuter that’s packed to the rafters, I got a seat in a 2facing2 with a little table, but if these seats weren’t here you could have at least 8-10 people stand in the space for 4.

Keep a level of seating for those who really need it, ie mobility issues, elderly or expectant mothers but everyone else can stand within reason.

Del.Monte · 08-10-2019 9:37am

Working class heroes wrote: »

And who will close these manual doors?:)

The train host could close the doors just as the guard did in the past and/or platform staff where they still exist. CIE is like the Gardai, too many 'employed' shuffling paper about when what is needed is more people at the coalface.

L1011 · 08-10-2019 10:42am

hurleronditch wrote: »

The other thing I’d do for trains used on commuter routes is rip out about half the seats. I’m currently sitting on a diesel commuter that’s packed to the rafters, I got a seat in a 2facing2 with a little table, but if these seats weren’t here you could have at least 8-10 people stand in the space for 4.

Keep a level of seating for those who really need it, ie mobility issues, elderly or expectant mothers but everyone else can stand within reason.

With the exception of the DART stock, we don't have any dedicated commuter trains realistically. 29000s are used to go to Newry and Longford for instance; a distance that needs seats.

22000s are used on some heavily loaded commuter segments - and are completely unsuited for it - but are also used everywhere else on the network and trying to split the fleet would inevitably cause issues in time. Plus we're stuck with the single leaf vestibule doors on them anyway.

Emme · 08-10-2019 12:07pm

hurleronditch wrote: »

Keep a level of seating for those who really need it, ie mobility issues, elderly or expectant mothers but everyone else can stand within reason.

Do you expect people to stand for an hour or more twice a day every day if they are not elderly, pregnant or disabled? Some people look fine but have "hidden" health issues such as autoimmune conditions, chronic fatigue etc. Getting a seat while travelling long distances on the train is essential for those people.

From personal experience standing for an hour on a packed train is far more tiring than cycling for an hour in traffic.

Isambard · 08-10-2019 3:04pm

gwalk wrote: »

4. Ban the FTP holders from peak services :rolleyes:

i don't suppose that's serious but I guess we'd be in favour if the subsidies we bring were diverted to the off peak trains we'd be using and fares were correspondingly increased on the peak hour trains.

Working class heroes · 08-10-2019 4:42pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The train host could close the doors just as the guard did in the past and/or platform staff where they still exist. CIE is like the Gardai, too many 'employed' shuffling paper about when what is needed is more people at the coalface.

Nah, they’d have to do a guards course for that, unions eh:rolleyes:
Are you familiar with the working/duties of CIE’s( or in this case IE) backroom staff? Can you break it down grade by grade?
How many are there and how do the numbers compare to the frontline staff?
Or are you just spouting sound bites you can’t back up?
Thanks.

Del.Monte · 08-10-2019 8:09pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Nah, they’d have to do a guards course for that, unions eh:rolleyes:
Are you familiar with the working/duties of CIE’s( or in this case IE) backroom staff? Can you break it down grade by grade?
How many are there and how do the numbers compare to the frontline staff?
Or are you just spouting sound bites you can’t back up?
Thanks.

I have no idea what sort of course the train hosts would have to do to shut the doors but it's kind of irrelevant since the slam door stock is all gone.

As for my comment - aka spouting sound bites - it's based on my anecdotal experience of years of dealing with CIE at all levels. Sorry I can't give you chapter and verse but from memory even the CIE/IE Annual report doesn't breakdown the staff according their jobs. Thanks for your continued interest in my posts.

Grandeeod · 08-10-2019 8:42pm

I'm laughing at how this part of boards and others are going around in circles since 2003. Every few years a new generation appears spouting the same defence of CIE/IE. Are CIE HQ training them?:D

Likewise the complaints are similar, but presented as somehow newly developed. The forthcoming recession should keep things quiet for a while and then we'll be back to the same old repetitive baloney. Wash, rince, repeat.:D

To Alcohol · 08-10-2019 8:50pm

Notice a lot of the grand canal dock to Newbridge services suffer from “mechanical difficulties”. My theory is the drivers get paid too much and aren’t interested in driving additional routes and services get pulled. Irish rail covering up with their usual excuse. Have seen these services pulled mid journey.

Leaves on the track is another one for this time of the year.

Jamie2k9 · 08-10-2019 9:41pm

To Alcohol wrote: »

Notice a lot of the grand canal dock to Newbridge services suffer from “mechanical difficulties”. My theory is the drivers get paid too much and aren’t interested in driving additional routes and services get pulled. Irish rail covering up with their usual excuse. Have seen these services pulled mid journey.

Leaves on the track is another one for this time of the year.

That's not true.

i don't suppose that's serious but I guess we'd be in favour if the subsidies we bring were diverted to the off peak trains we'd be using and fares were correspondingly increased on the peak hour trains.

The FTP subsidy only covers a fraction of the cost plus less OAPs mean's less capacity required at certain times saving money.

With the exception of the DART stock, we don't have any dedicated commuter trains realistically. 29000s are used to go to Newry and Longford for instance; a distance that needs seats.

22000s are used on some heavily loaded commuter segments - and are completely unsuited for it - but are also used everywhere else on the network and trying to split the fleet would inevitably cause issues in time. Plus we're stuck with the single leaf vestibule doors on them anyway.

29000 are dedicated commuter stock and pretty much the same as newer DARTs.

Part of the problem for IE is they have limited themselves to 8 car trains and no plans to change this going forward. Granted increasing platforms for 10 or even 12 might cause problems at certain locations but probally never considered. This is where frequency is needed.

Working class heroes · 08-10-2019 10:12pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I have no idea what sort of course the train hosts would have to do to shut the doors but it's kind of irrelevant since the slam door stock is all gone.

As for my comment - aka spouting sound bites - it's based on my anecdotal experience of years of dealing with CIE at all levels. Sorry I can't give you chapter and verse but from memory even the CIE/IE Annual report doesn't breakdown the staff according their jobs. Thanks for your continued interest in my posts.

“Anecdotal “ thought as much.

And, you are most welcome.

Working class heroes · 08-10-2019 10:23pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm laughing at how this part of boards and others are going around in circles since 2003. Every few years a new generation appears spouting the same defence of CIE/IE. Are CIE HQ training them?:D

Likewise the complaints are similar, but presented as somehow newly developed. The forthcoming recession should keep things quiet for a while and then we'll be back to the same old repetitive baloney. Wash, rince, repeat.:D

If you don’t like what’s posted you can choose to ignore “this part of boards”

Anyway i’ll assume you are addressing me re defending CIE/IE.
Just to put you at ease i’ll Call bullsh1te on any comment I see here, don’t care if it’s pro or against CIE/IE. Feel free to check out my posts. I have a dislike of certain elements of how IE is run. I also detest unions.

I hope that clears up my position on things.

Drifter50 · 08-10-2019 10:35pm

L1011 wrote: »

With the exception of the DART stock, we don't have any dedicated commuter trains realistically. 29000s are used to go to Newry and Longford for instance; a distance that needs seats.

22000s are used on some heavily loaded commuter segments - and are completely unsuited for it - but are also used everywhere else on the network and trying to split the fleet would inevitably cause issues in time. Plus we're stuck with the single leaf vestibule doors on them anyway.

Why are they using 22K units on Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch and then 29k units appear on Sligo services. Does`nt make any sense. Gawd I travel Dromod Connolly and its painful for 2 hours let alone 3 to Sligo
The 29K units are very tired these days, they all need refurbs but I guess as we have no spare rolling stock they will be kept in service untill something new arrives.

Pity the 2700 project was shelved, surely reintroducing them would help. They can`t need that amount of work.

Have all the Mark 3`s and Mark 2d`s been cut up or is there still a bunch of them sitting up in NI sidings. Hamills sidings was mentioned a while ago

Constant delays on Intercity trains

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