Hard wired dash cam and car warranty

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:25PM

Oops! wrote: »

Spot on... In the trade myself. OP this is the opinion you need to take most notice of in a nutshell....

Seriously

Ford 10A fuse in a VW.

Warranty voiding?

To be avoided, but OK in life or death scenarios?

Worth trucking it to the main dealer just in case?

Oops! · 30-09-2019 09:29PM

Your both missing the point.... Read the post i quoted again.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:30PM

Oops! wrote: »

Your both missing the point.... Read the post i quoted again.

You're in the trade and able to advise the OP in this matter?

nogoodnamesleft · 30-09-2019 09:33PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

It's not as simple as DC resistance only. Does the fuse tap act as an aerial, is the wire coiled, can it overheat, did you loosen anything else while at it?

The car is sold as full system that meet certain standards. Messing with the wiring, however slight, shifts the responsibility to you to prove that absolutely nothing unexpected could possibly have come from the work. That's something you (or I) don't have the ability, equipment or cash to do - so the manufacturer can rightfully void the warranty.

We don't know that nothing is broken to be fair, just that it hasn't been noticed. Did the fuse tap get too hot and melt some solder on the fuseboard? Will this only be a problem when it gets cold and cracks? Very unlikely - buy why take the chance?

Automotive testing is incredibly rigorous, down to component level on circuit boards. Warranty costs are just too high to leave anything to chance. If you think they're tested in lab conditions, you're entirely mistaken.

Fuse boards in modern cars are modular, i dont recall any with soldered contacts in cars Ive worked on its usually crimped connections terminated onto plugs which locate onto the back of the fuse board in the car to lower production costs. The 12VDC outlet in a car is typically rated at 15A...the dash cam is considerably smaller than that so a thermal risk is very very low.

The only issue I recall that caused issues with cracked soldered joints was the electronic contacts on many door modules from the VAG range which wasnt picked up in any automotive testing. Funnily enough it became apparent via "cyclic stress".....a fancy way of saying the solder cracked on the PCB from successive opening and closing of the doors over the lifetime of the car usually outside warranty.

Warranty is over the warranty period of the car...hence the automotive company attempts to mitigate the risk of this occuring over the term they are responsible which will dictate the budget for testing its down to cost. There is way to many variables to comprehensively test in a simulated enviroment compared to real world.

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2019 09:34PM

HailSatan wrote: »

Seriously

Ford 10A fuse in a VW.

Warranty voiding?

To be avoided, but OK in life or death scenarios?

Worth trucking it to the main dealer just in case?

As someone who voids warranty claims for a living, I can tell you that manufacturers are only too happy to find an excuse to not pay out or to wash their hands of a car.

The decision to warranty or not to warranty is usually made at dealer level and as said above is usually done in a hear no evil, see no evil fashion, which is absolutely fine to me but it does mean scenarios like this would rarely cross my path.

That being said, if a car is a borderline case or someone at dealer level has said they dont want to approach a problem car or cannot adequately troubleshoot it due to aftermarket accessories, I'd back them 100% to leave it be.

For example I worked directly on a case last year where a car was gutted by fire. The manufacturer went to expense well in excess of the value of the (not particularly expensive) car to prove that the car was not at fault. The shell was stored for months, numerous visits from manufacturers HQ, charred parts removed from the car for assessment. I'd be confident if they found a "piggy back fuse tho", they'd wash their hands of the whole thing in record time and the owners insurance company would probably appreciate that info too.

Sure it's all grand on boards saying your piggy back fuse kit is fine. It probably is, but if something unfortunate happens, you could be caught with your pants down. It's unlikely, but it happens and that's all that matters really.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:35PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

As someone who voids warranty claims for a living, I can tell you that manufacturers are only too happy to find an excuse to not pay out or to wash their hands of a car.

The decision to warranty or not to warranty is usually made at dealer level and as said above is usually done in a hear no evil, see no evil fashion, which is absolutely fine to me but it does mean scenarios like this would rarely cross my path.

That being said, if a car is a borderline case or someone at dealer level has said they dont want to approach a problem car or cannot adequately troubleshoot it due to aftermarket accessories, I'd back them 100% to leave it be.

For example I worked directly on a case last year where a car was gutted by fire. The manufacturer went to expense well in excess of the value of the (not particularly expensive) car to prove that the car was not at fault. The shell was stored for months, numerous visits from manufacturers HQ, charred parts removed from the car for assessment. I'd be confident if they found a "piggy back fuse tho", they'd wash their hands of the whole thing in record time and the owners insurance company would probably appreciate that info too.

Sure it's all grand on boards saying your piggy back fuse kit is fine. It probably is, but if something unfortunate happens, you could be caught with your pants down. It's unlikely, but it happens and that's all that matters really.

Seriously

Ford 10A fuse in a VW.

Warranty voiding?

To be avoided, but OK in life or death scenarios?

Worth trucking it to the main dealer just in case

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2019 10:09PM

If you post that again, I'll have no choice but to believe you are trolling and you will be thread banned.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 10:12PM

I'm sure somebody will answer it.

No?

Strange. These are important questions.

gctest50 · 01-10-2019 12:45AM

HailSatan wrote: »

Seriously

Ford 10A fuse in a VW.

Warranty voiding?

To be avoided, but OK in life or death scenarios?

Worth trucking it to the main dealer just in case

Of you own a Volkswagen an a minor fuse has blown, drive to the Volkswagen garage und buy a new one and a few spares

Nicht too many spares though or they will corrode und fail

Mech1 · 01-10-2019 01:02AM

I am in the trade.
Today a lady arrived in a range rover sport, air suspension flat, transmission fault message on dash, hill decent fault on dash, park brake fault, message on dash not to exceed 30mph and probably more that I cant remember.

Turned out to be a Halfords 21w single element bulb fitted on Saturday evening should have been a 21/5w double element bulb.

Its true that silly things happen on modern cars.

vectra · 01-10-2019 01:04AM

Mech1 wrote: »

I am in the trade.
Today a lady arrived in a range rover sport, air suspension flat, transmission fault message on dash, hill decent fault on dash, park brake fault, message on dash not to exceed 30mph and probably more that I cant remember.

Turned out to be a Halfords 21w single element bulb fitted on Saturday evening should have been a 21/5w double element bulb.

Its true that silly things happen on modern cars.

Well.
That would be understandable to cause errors.:o

gctest50 · 01-10-2019 01:06AM

Mech1 wrote: »

I am in the trade.
Today a lady arrived in a range rover sport, air suspension flat, transmission fault message on dash, hill decent fault on dash, park brake fault, message on dash not to exceed 30mph and probably more that I cant remember.

Turned out to be a Halfords 21w single element bulb fitted on Saturday evening should have been a 21/5w double element bulb.

Its true that silly things happen on modern cars.

Turned out it was sh!te wiring by the Engish once again

( even though most are truly lovely people, shouldn't be let near wiring or anything else, eg British Leyland )

Mech1 · 01-10-2019 01:08AM

vectra wrote: »

Well.
That would be understandable to cause errors.:o

Im actually fighting with a dash cam wiring problem on my own car at the moment, read here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/parking-mode-problem.40591/

HailSatan · 01-10-2019 05:53AM

Mech1 wrote: »

I am in the trade.
Today a lady arrived in a range rover sport, air suspension flat, transmission fault message on dash, hill decent fault on dash, park brake fault, message on dash not to exceed 30mph and probably more that I cant remember.

Turned out to be a Halfords 21w single element bulb fitted on Saturday evening should have been a 21/5w double element bulb.

Its true that silly things happen on modern cars.

Warranty voiding?

HailSatan · 01-10-2019 05:56AM

Mech1 wrote: »

Im actually fighting with a dash cam wiring problem on my own car at the moment, read here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/parking-mode-problem.40591/

You're in luck, there's fellas in the trade, and with degrees in automotive systems engineering, here.

I'll have a look myself sure but I can't promise anything without an advanced engineering degree behind me.

HailSatan · 01-10-2019 05:57AM

gctest50 wrote: »

Of you own a Volkswagen an a minor fuse has blown, drive to the Volkswagen garage und buy a new one and a few spares

Nicht too many spares though or they will corrode und fail

But as to the questions you failed to answer?

That all of the experts have failed to answer throughout this thread?

HailSatan · 01-10-2019 06:12AM

Mech1 wrote: »

Im actually fighting with a dash cam wiring problem on my own car at the moment, read here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/parking-mode-problem.40591/

Now, this will probably be a bit of effort to give exactly the answer we all expected.. But would you have another battery with decent charge in a bench somewhere?

Haul out everything you've put in the car and set it up on the bench. I expect by removing the car from the equation that the cam will behave itself.

Do you have a link to the hardwire kit?

Irish Stones · 01-10-2019 10:27AM

gctest50 wrote: »

TLDR: car manufacturers should provide a pair of screw terminals at the top of the fusebox for dashcams

I always asked myself why they don't. They know it too well that people use these devices more and more often.

Irish Stones · 01-10-2019 10:31AM

I wish to thank you everybody for the inputs and opinions, and experiences too, all was precious.

Let me add this.
The dash cam I fitted in my car is a Viofo A129 Duo. I bought it in April, the car is one year old, it's an Opel Mokka X.
One the cams is on the windscreen, on the right hand side of the rear view mirror (I live in Italy, cars drive on the right), the other cam in the top centre of the rear window.
All cables run under the trims. The power cable runs to the fuse box where the piggyback fuse has been inserted in the place of the lighter fuse.
So the lighter is safe with its 20A fuse.
The piggyback fuse feeds the dash cam (hard wired) and a secondary lighter socket that I left hanging (short red and black cable, 2.5 mm2, protected into a heavy duty sleeve) under the fuse box and safely tied with cable ties to a point under the box.
The ground for the power was taken to a chassis point very close to the fuse, inside the fuse box.
The second lighter socket is for the GPS navigator that I use only when needed. Its own cable runs under the trim and is available next to the steering wheel. So I have no cable hanging in the middle or where they can be seen.
The tap fuse on the piggyback is 3A, the minimum to ensure that both device can boot up and work. A 2A fuse would blow everytime, 4A or 5A would have been fine, so I stuck with 3A, to have extra protection.

What gave the setup away was the second lighter socket, that the garage staff noticed when they accessed the OBD Port, I presume.
Electronics and wires is my field of work, so all the job has been done to the highest quality standard possible.
But this wasn't enough for them.
And by what I have read so far, they might be right in term of warranty.

swarlb · 01-10-2019 11:08AM

Irish Stones wrote: »

I wish to thank you everybody for the inputs and opinions, and experiences too, all was precious.

Let me add this.
The dash cam I fitted in my car is a Viofo A129 Duo. I bought it in April, the car is one year old, it's an Opel Mokka X.
One the cams is on the windscreen, on the right hand side of the rear view mirror (I live in Italy, cars drive on the right), the other cam in the top centre of the rear window.
All cables run under the trims. The power cable runs to the fuse box where the piggyback fuse has been inserted in the place of the lighter fuse.
So the lighter is safe with its 20A fuse.
The piggyback fuse feeds the dash cam (hard wired) and a secondary lighter socket that I left hanging (short red and black cable, 2.5 mm2, protected into a heavy duty sleeve) under the fuse box and safely tied with cable ties to a point under the box.
The ground for the power was taken to a chassis point very close to the fuse, inside the fuse box.
The second lighter socket is for the GPS navigator that I use only when needed. Its own cable runs under the trim and is available next to the steering wheel. So I have no cable hanging in the middle or where they can be seen.
The tap fuse on the piggyback is 3A, the minimum to ensure that both device can boot up and work. A 2A fuse would blow everytime, 4A or 5A would have been fine, so I stuck with 3A, to have extra protection.

What gave the setup away was the second lighter socket, that the garage staff noticed when they accessed the OBD Port, I presume.
Electronics and wires is my field of work, so all the job has been done to the highest quality standard possible.
But this wasn't enough for them.
And by what I have read so far, they might be right in term of warranty.

Good stuff... so, it seems that mechanics, service staff, service managers, warranty people, in fact 'motor trade' people in general seem to act the same no matter what part of the world they live in...
That is refreshing to know.... so it's not only 'The Irish' who 'know it all'...

Irish Stones · 01-10-2019 12:26PM

swarlb wrote: »

Good stuff... so, it seems that mechanics, service staff, service managers, warranty people, in fact 'motor trade' people in general seem to act the same no matter what part of the world they live in...
That is refreshing to know.... so it's not only 'The Irish' who 'know it all'...

LOL!

I didn't know that Irish are considered "know-it-all"

kirving · 01-10-2019 12:28PM

Mech1 wrote: »

Im actually fighting with a dash cam wiring problem on my own car at the moment, read here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/parking-mode-problem.40591/

I'm not sure it's a wiring issue? I don't see the car doing something every 5 minutes, but the Nextbase site does in fact mention a 5 minute timer.

https://www.nextbase.com/en-gb/dash-cam-features/parking-mode/

Intelligent Parking Mode can be turned on via the menu settings for the Dash Cam. It will put the cam into standby mode after five minutes of inactivity. The dash cam will then power on and record a two-minute protected file when physical movement of the vehicle is detected.

Looks like the camera records a clip, then ignores everything for 5 minutes, and then is immediately re-activated?

Can the parking mode length be set to 30s like is being generated?

Does the G-sensor have to be calibrated? Can the sensitivity to be set?

swarlb · 02-10-2019 12:34AM

Irish Stones wrote: »

LOL!
I didn't know that Irish are considered "know-it-all"

Ireland is the centre of the known Universe, Everyone (in Ireland) knows this...

Irish Stones · 02-10-2019 01:30PM

I'm attaching the links to the photos of my setup.
You can see how the front cam is mounted on the windscreen, with the cables concealed under the trim.
Then you see the piggy back fuse in the fuse box, with the original 20A fuse for the cig lighter and the 3A fuse for the hard wire.
Then you see the hard wire cables securely tied at the bottom of the box. A screw and a terminal get the ground from a bracket nearby.
You also see my second lighter socket under the fuse box, useful for the navigator (Garmin) adapter.
And the last photo is of the rear cam. The light colour is the flash light of my phone reflecting off the rear surface of the cam

I think I did a neat job.

https://freeimage.host/i/H9FOjs
https://freeimage.host/i/H9FeZG
https://freeimage.host/i/H9Fvnf
https://freeimage.host/i/H9F8G4
https://freeimage.host/i/H9FS6l

TherapyBoy · 02-10-2019 11:14PM

Looks neat enough but a professional would have removed any of the excess 12v cable after the fuse rather than cable tie-ing it up, wouldn’t have used the crimping terminal (probably would’ve just joined & soldered the wire) & they’d have covered it all in black cloth tape to make it nice & neat.

The problem you have might not be with your wiring though, the problem could simply be that someone in the main dealers saw what you added & didn’t like it for whatever reason. Since it’s to do with maintaining warranty it might be something that came down from the manufacturer. Such is life!

HailSatan · 02-10-2019 11:38PM

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Looks neat enough but a professional would have removed any of the excess 12v cable after the fuse rather than cable tie-ing it up, wouldn’t have used the crimping terminal (probably would’ve just joined & soldered the wire) & they’d have covered it all in black cloth tape to make it nice & neat.

The problem you have might not be with your wiring though, the problem could simply be that someone in the main dealers saw what you added & didn’t like it for whatever reason. Since it’s to do with maintaining warranty it might be something that came down from the manufacturer. Such is life!

We've been repeatedly told the length of the oem wire has magic properties and one shouldn't join too close to the fuse box.

What magic properties would be conferred by snipping off the crimp terminal that comes with the piggyback fuse and soldering a free hanging bit of wire?

TherapyBoy · 02-10-2019 11:59PM

If they tell you that the warranty is void because you hung a strawberry scented air freshener from the mirror instead of an oem lemon scented one what can you do? Its their warranty. They set the rules.

The ‘magic’ conferred by what i suggested would be it’d look neater. If you wired it more neatly it might not have been noticed at all. Also, a professional fitter wouldn’t have used a piggy-back fuse.

There is nothing wrong with your wiring.

Cookie_Monster · 03-10-2019 12:53AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have bought 7 cars new over the years and have never heard of such a check.

Mitsubishi:

Eclipse Brochure wrote:

Your Mitsubishi Motors Ireland warranty is strictly subject to the presentation of your vehicle to an authorised Mitsubishi Motors dealer in the Republic of Ireland at least once every year, or every 15,000 Kms / 20,000 Kms, whichever comes first. The dealer must be given the opportunity to complete the mandatory Mitsubishi Motors vehicle health check when your vehicle is presented. The free annual vehicle health check can be completed independently of a service or it can be performed in conjunction with a scheduled service. Free Vehicle Health Check terms and conditions apply.

Irish Stones · 03-10-2019 06:56AM

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Looks neat enough but a professional would have removed any of the excess 12v cable after the fuse rather than cable tie-ing it up, wouldn’t have used the crimping terminal (probably would’ve just joined & soldered the wire) & they’d have covered it all in black cloth tape to make it nice & neat.

The dash cam (and its kit) too comes with its warranty, so I thought that any alteration of the supplied material (including the hard wiring kit) might have made the dash cam warranty void in case of an issue.
Crimping a wire into a terminal does not add any problem with the circuit continuity. As a matter of fact, I saw more problems with bad soldering or solderings that break up due to vibrations.
Covering the wiring with black cloth tape would have been a nice touch, though, you're right.
I only covered the part of witing that goes to the second lighter socket, by using a nylon sleeve.

Irish Stones · 03-10-2019 07:03AM

TherapyBoy wrote: »

The ‘magic’ conferred by what i suggested would be it’d look neater. If you wired it more neatly it might not have been noticed at all. Also, a professional fitter wouldn’t have used a piggy-back fuse.

Not using a piggy back fuse would have meant that I should have tampered with the car wiring, that, in my opinion, would have have been even worse, because it was a 'heavy' intervention on the car.
I think that the garage staff would have noticed it anyway, I'm rather sure they noticed something unusual when they tried to access the OBD port, as you can see in this photo
https://freeimage.host/i/H9F8G4
Yes, if I didn't have that lighter socket hanging from under the fuse box, they would have never seen anything. I don't think they would have opened the fusebox to check if something had been added.
Lesson learned, next time that I have to take my car to the dealer for a check I will conceal that socket much better.

There is nothing wrong with your wiring.

Thanks God!

Hard wired dash cam and car warranty

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