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Appealing a Luas fine

  • 26-09-2019 11:14pm
    #1
    antimatterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭


    Hi

    I was getting the Luas home from work last week as I always do. Inspectors hopped on at Dawson Street. I gave the inspector my leap card, not expecting any issue as I had tagged on, but the card read as tagged off. I was taken aback by this as I had tagged on and there was €30 on the card. Even with the money, I had reached the cap, so they would of got €0, from the journey anyway.

    The inspector was sound, and said it's possible there was an issue with the machine. As he could see there was plenty of money on the leap card, and he could see a brief consistent history. He told me to appeal, and I should get off it.

    I appealed, and I was basically told to **** off. I'm an honest customer, I always tag on, and there tickers went €45 euro from me. I could of refused to give the inspector any information and got off at the next stop (in reality they can't stop you, or even touch you).

    I'm half tempted to pay by credit card, and do a charge back.

    Any advice on how to get this appealed??? Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    antimatterx wrote: »
    I had reached the cap, so they would of got €0, from the journey anyway.

    Pretty sure that's not how it works. NTA apply the capping, Luas(Transdev) still get paid per journey.


  • #3
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    You need to look at the machine and make sure it scans.... So many don't and whether you are capped or not if the journey isn't tagged it's not a legit journey so it doesn't show up you travelled.


  • #4
    LastStop
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭LastStop


    antimatterx wrote: »

    The inspector was sound, and said it's possible there was an issue with the machine. As he could see there was plenty of money on the leap card, and he could see a brief consistent history. He told me to appeal, and I should get off it.

    I'm half tempted to pay by credit card, and do a charge back.

    Any advice on how to get this appealed???

    I bet after the inspector told you that then you gave him your information a lot quicker and without grief. That's ticket checking 101 right there.

    Charge back won't work, credit card company have no valid reason to apply a chargeback for that.

    You already appealed it, only option is not to pay and go to court, take your chance with a judge. But you accept the terms and conditions of the luas when you travel, you didn't ensure you were tagged on, regardless of any cap.


  • #5
    Tomrota
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Tomrota


    I don’t know why this happens but sometimes when you use a certain combination of rail, LUAS or bus, the card is tagged on when it’s not. Well it happens to my card. Sometimes I go to top it up at the train station and it says “tagged on”. The LEAP card isn’t the most technological card out there. Don’t pay the fine, that’s so ridiculous.


  • #6
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    What the inspector sees is a very simple is this card tagged on for this operator

    If you use the bus, there is no 'tag' off

    Luas has a very clear no excuses policy, you must tag on and it is your problem to verify that this worked. If all the equipment is broken, then you cannot travel.


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  • #7
    Tomrota
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Tomrota


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    What the inspector sees is a very simple is this card tagged on for this operator

    If you use the bus, there is no 'tag' off

    Luas has a very clear no excuses policy, you must tag on and it is your problem to verify that this worked. If all the equipment is broken, then you cannot travel.
    Nobody thinks about going about their business in such a clinical way. If I get off a bus and go to the Luas and there is a tram coming, I tag my card like everyone else. I’ve never seen anyone ensuring their card’s status is tagged off before their journey. Instead, TFI could make the system better by not allowing this to happen in the first place and having different sounds for tagging on and off.


  • #8
    B_ecke_r
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭B_ecke_r


    don't understand why there isn't a validator on the luas,

    I missed one yesterday trying to tap on - would make way more sense and I would say a lot of people risk not tagging on for fear of being late for work.


  • #9
    B_ecke_r
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭B_ecke_r


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    If all the equipment is broken, then you cannot travel.

    sorry, but that's absolute bollock$


  • #10
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Op can you view the journey history online? If it shows you didn't tag on there's not a lot you can do


  • #11
    JustJoe7240
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    B_ecke_r wrote: »
    don't understand why there isn't a validator on the luas,

    I missed one yesterday trying to tap on - would make way more sense and I would say a lot of people risk not tagging on for fear of being late for work.

    You'd just have nobody tagging on and then validating in the event an inspector steps on


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  • #12
    B_ecke_r
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭B_ecke_r


    JustJoe7240 wrote: »
    You'd just have nobody tagging on and then validating in the event an inspector steps on

    true but I am a firm believer in the honest people shouldn't suffer cause of a few bad eggs.


  • #13
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    B_ecke_r wrote: »
    don't understand why there isn't a validator on the luas,

    I missed one yesterday trying to tap on - would make way more sense and I would say a lot of people risk not tagging on for fear of being late for work.


    Get up earlier if there is a chance you be late for work. We are great with the auld excuses


  • #14
    B_ecke_r
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭B_ecke_r


    average_runner wrote: »
    Get up earlier if there is a chance you be late for work. We are great with the auld excuses

    I wasn't even referring to myself I am flexi in work but you realise some people work to a specific schedule in the mornings?

    ridiculous comment.


  • #15
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    B_ecke_r wrote: »
    I wasn't even referring to myself I am flexi in work but you realise some people work to a specific schedule in the mornings?

    ridiculous comment.

    Including myself and I ensure I get up early enough to get in with 15 mins to spare.


  • #16
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    antimatterx wrote: »
    Hi

    I was getting the Luas home from work last week as I always do. Inspectors hopped on at Dawson Street. I gave the inspector my leap card, not expecting any issue as I had tagged on, but the card read as tagged off. I was taken aback by this as I had tagged on and there was €30 on the card. Even with the money, I had reached the cap, so they would of got €0, from the journey anyway.

    The inspector was sound, and said it's possible there was an issue with the machine. As he could see there was plenty of money on the leap card, and he could see a brief consistent history. He told me to appeal, and I should get off it.

    I appealed, and I was basically told to **** off. I'm an honest customer, I always tag on, and there tickers went €45 euro from me. I could of refused to give the inspector any information and got off at the next stop (in reality they can't stop you, or even touch you).

    I'm half tempted to pay by credit card, and do a charge back.

    Any advice on how to get this appealed??? Thanks


    Sadly you won't win on appeal. Its your responsbility to ensure you tap properly. Put it down to a life lesson and move on.


  • #17
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,096 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    B_ecke_r wrote: »
    true but I am a firm believer in the honest people shouldn't suffer cause of a few bad eggs.

    Its a nice thought, sure.


  • #18
    B_ecke_r
    Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭B_ecke_r


    I thought the fine was €100?

    Will they really bring someone to court for €45?


  • #19
    tobdom
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭tobdom


    average_runner wrote: »
    Sadly you won't win on appeal. Its your responsbility to ensure you tap properly. Put it down to a life lesson and move on.


    I've won on appeal before (few years ago).... Regular daily user (at the time), always tag-on & off, regular top-ups etc. One day coming home from work (late, brain fried), I simply forgot to tag-on. That simple, had time and everything as I was waiting for one. As far as I was concerned when I saw the inspectors coming, nothing to worry about, I tagged on, I always tag-on, I did tag-on didn't I?..... Turns out I didn't, got issued with a fine.

    I had sufficient credit etc. at the time. I contested the fine with the evidence from my registered Leap card that I tag-on & off daily, regularly top-up etc. and that in no way was I trying to evade the fare. They made me sweat it out for 2 weeks (which I think is the length of time I had to pay the fine) before agreeing to quash the fine.


  • #20
    Tomrota
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Tomrota


    JustJoe7240 wrote: »
    You'd just have nobody tagging on and then validating in the event an inspector steps on

    It works in Amsterdam. Same for every mode of transport there.


  • #21
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Tomrota wrote: »
    It works in Amsterdam. Same for every mode of transport there.

    Yeah but this is Ireland. We abuse everything and so we can't have anything.

    Tram in Edinburgh have defibrillators on them, could you imagine what would happen to them on the luas here?


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