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Handicap Secretary Question

  • 25-09-2019 4:08pm
    #1
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭


    Bit of a random one here.

    I was playing last week with the competition secretary and he said the most annoying part of being in the position, is going through each card (in the top ten), sorting them, checking the scores etc.

    Surely a very simple solution for all of this would be to scan all cards. This would take out basically all of the administration of having to go to the club, collect the cards etc. So basically, at the end of the round, you enter your score, then scan the card in and off you go.

    We use Handicap Master (Master Scoreboard). Does anyone Scan their card in? Seems ridiculous that competition Sec's need to do stuff like sort cards etc.....


Comments

  • #2
    SEORG
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭SEORG


    Are you sure he was the Handicap Secretary and not the Competitions Secretary?
    I can see why a Comps Sec would have to go through cards but like yourself don't see why a HC Sec would have to.


  • #3
    ahnoyouregrand
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭ahnoyouregrand


    Hi, apologies in advance for this very basic albeit related question.

    I recently joined a club in a new area with minimal formal golfing experience, ie playing competitions etc. I want to get a handicap so i can do this. What should my first step be? I dont know anyone at the club so dont really have a network of people to ask!


  • #4
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    ahnoyouregrand wrote: »
    Hi, apologies in advance for this very basic albeit related question.

    I recently joined a club in a new area with minimal formal golfing experience, ie playing competitions etc. I want to get a handicap so i can do this. What should my first step be? I dont know anyone at the club so dont really have a network of people to ask!

    Simple. Play three rounds with someone willing to sign them

    Hand them to handicap secretary

    Get handicap


  • #5
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    SEORG wrote: »
    Are you sure he was the Handicap Secretary and not the Competitions Secretary?
    I can see why a Comps Sec would have to go through cards but like yourself don't see why a HC Sec would have to.

    Sorry yes, the competition secretary. Basically the poor lad has to gather up the cards after every competition. Seems utterly pointless in this day and age. Surely after entering your card, you scan it into the computer. Would take a huge amount of admin out of the process and something thats so simple


  • #6
    Rackstar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Rackstar


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    Sorry yes, the competition secretary. Basically the poor lad has to gather up the cards after every competition. Seems utterly pointless in this day and age. Surely after entering your card, you scan it into the computer. Would take a huge amount of admin out of the process and something thats so simple

    A lot of people struggle entering their score, there’ll be some NRs, be next to impossible to get everyone to do it. Then you have to go looking for the NRs, Incase someone has returned their card and not entered their score.


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  • #7
    ahnoyouregrand
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭ahnoyouregrand


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    Simple. Play three rounds with someone willing to sign them

    Hand them to handicap secretary

    Get handicap

    Thanks for the reply. Can I just put my name down on a competition timesheet for this by anychance? Obviously not as a competitor but it would allow me to play with someone...

    Or am I better off just waiting until next year?

    Sorry about the stupidity of the questions!


  • #8
    big_drive
    Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭big_drive


    ahnoyouregrand wrote: »

    Thanks for the reply. Can I just put my name down on a competition timesheet for this by anychance? Obviously not as a competitor but it would allow me to play with someone...

    Or am I better off just waiting until next year?

    Sorry about the stupidity of the questions!

    Can’t talk for every club but where I was a member it was perfectly ok for a new member to put their name on the timesheet in a competition for the purpose of getting their card completed for handicap.
    I’d say work away and try get it done this year.


  • #9
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    Rackstar wrote: »
    A lot of people struggle entering their score, there’ll be some NRs, be next to impossible to get everyone to do it. Then you have to go looking for the NRs, Incase someone has returned their card and not entered their score.

    It just seems to me that the whole system could do with some modernisation.

    My idea was:

    1. Enter your gui number (as usual)
    2. Scan your scorecard to the screen
    3. Take the scores from your card which will be on the left of the screen and enter them in.
    4. Check your score (as usual)
    5. Press ok
    6. Bin your card.

    Now, no need for gathering cards. Its all recorded and you can monitor remotely, sort by score etc. Makes everyones job way easier. Anybody not entering their scorecard gets a NR.

    Thoughts?


  • #10
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Rackstar wrote: »
    A lot of people struggle entering their score, there’ll be some NRs, be next to impossible to get everyone to do it. Then you have to go looking for the NRs, Incase someone has returned their card and not entered their score.

    And then people forget to sign their cards, or get markers to sign cards, or don't enter dates, name of comps etc etc etc.


  • #11
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    And then people forget to sign their cards, or get markers to sign cards, or don't enter dates, name of comps etc etc etc.

    Dates of the competition? Its on the computer
    name of competition? you sign into the competition
    unmarked cards? you still get a NR, nothing changes.

    The point of all this manual checking, having to get them all together, the actual sorting of the cards, having to be at the club. All of it is time consuming and should be able to do online.

    I know sometimes people struggle with entering their cards, but they dont seem to have trouble entering their cards when they know they are in the shakeup


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  • #12
    Golfgraffix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    The club actually have to keep the cards for two years.

    There was a provision in the 2018 r&a rules for a digital card but it was never exercised

    J


  • #13
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    Dates of the competition? Its on the computer
    name of competition? you sign into the competition
    unmarked cards? you still get a NR, nothing changes.

    The point of all this manual checking, having to get them all together, the actual sorting of the cards, having to be at the club. All of it is time consuming and should be able to do online.

    I know sometimes people struggle with entering their cards, but they dont seem to have trouble entering their cards when they know they are in the shakeup


    From past experience checking the cards manually is the way to go. Don't know how many times lads have made mistakes whether they're in the shake up or not.

    And also, a lot of lads on committee don't mind the work. If enough are involved, a roster can be drawn up and a few hours per month is all thats required.


  • #14
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭Russman


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    From past experience checking the cards manually is the way to go. Don't know how many times lads have made mistakes whether they're in the shake up or not.

    And also, a lot of lads on committee don't mind the work. If enough are involved, a roster can be drawn up and a few hours per month is all thats required.

    Agree with the sentiment, but from experience of doing it, unfortunately the roster of 10 volunteers in January usually ends up being the same 2 or 3 guys doing all the work for the year. Particularly in the summer months when the last thing anyone wants to do is go the club at 10pm on a Saturday to sort cards.


  • #15
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭Russman


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    Dates of the competition? Its on the computer
    name of competition? you sign into the competition
    unmarked cards? you still get a NR, nothing changes.

    The point of all this manual checking, having to get them all together, the actual sorting of the cards, having to be at the club. All of it is time consuming and should be able to do online.

    I know sometimes people struggle with entering their cards, but they dont seem to have trouble entering their cards when they know they are in the shakeup

    Wouldn't that imply that the Comp Sec must have a computer at home though ? I appreciate lots of people do, but plenty don't.


  • #16
    ahnoyouregrand
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭ahnoyouregrand


    big_drive wrote: »
    Can’t talk for every club but where I was a member it was perfectly ok for a new member to put their name on the timesheet in a competition for the purpose of getting their card completed for handicap.
    I’d say work away and try get it done this year.

    Thanks for the reply Big Drive! Will talk to the staff in the Club.


  • #17
    mike12
    Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    ahnoyouregrand wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply Big Drive! Will talk to the staff in the Club.

    Where are u a member there maybe someone on here who u could play with


  • #18
    Johnny_Fontane
    Registered Users Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭Johnny_Fontane


    Russman wrote: »
    Wouldn't that imply that the Comp Sec must have a computer at home though ? I appreciate lots of people do, but plenty don't.

    Yes, it would imply that. But could ultimately be done on a phone/tablet no doubt as well.

    I just dont understand when we have made the move to entering scores on a computer that to push it one step further wouldnt make complete sense(and ultimately make the comps sec job a million times easier). I mean, all the scores are already on the computer as entered by the players, all you are doing is putting a photo of the card beside it, so the comps sec can do their job.....

    I can imagine to some people though, like the episode in father ted where Ted gives Ms Doyle the Tea machine for Xmas, that this would take away an enjoyable part of the committee work.


  • #19
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 12,971 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Johnny_Fontane wrote: »
    Yes, it would imply that. But could ultimately be done on a phone/tablet no doubt as well.

    I just dont understand when we have made the move to entering scores on a computer that to push it one step further wouldnt make complete sense(and ultimately make the comps sec job a million times easier). I mean, all the scores are already on the computer as entered by the players, all you are doing is putting a photo of the card beside it, so the comps sec can do their job.....

    I can imagine to some people though, like the episode in father ted where Ted gives Ms Doyle the Tea machine for Xmas, that this would take away an enjoyable part of the committee work.
    There are a number of problems with this approach. The first being that clubs would have to train people to use a scanner correctly. I'm sure that can be got over reasonably easily enough, but then there's the next problem of storage and document sizes. You're suggesting that the CompSec can access this data remotely, but that requires a lot of technical work to make it possible. And could create a security issue for the club. Remote access is a massive security hole, especially where non-technical people are given that level of access. Cloud storage is a possibility, but again this requires pretty significant upstream bandwidth. Some clubs would have this, others may not. And some clubs operate normal working hours and can be closed when players come in of an evening and operate a card drop box without any access to computers or scanners. Finally, I can't think of anything more clunky and time consuming than trying to shuffle through dozens of pdfs to (a) figure out who the top ten are and (b) check to make sure they are properly completed scorecards.

    TL;DR: It adds a layer of complexity to a system that may cause more problems than it solves. And probably would take more time than manually going through them.


  • #20
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 26,991 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    There are a number of problems with this approach. The first being that clubs would have to train people to use a scanner correctly. I'm sure that can be got over reasonably easily enough, but then there's the next problem of storage and document sizes. You're suggesting that the CompSec can access this data remotely, but that requires a lot of technical work to make it possible. And could create a security issue for the club. Remote access is a massive security hole, especially where non-technical people are given that level of access. Cloud storage is a possibility, but again this requires pretty significant upstream bandwidth. Some clubs would have this, others may not. And some clubs operate normal working hours and can be closed when players come in of an evening and operate a card drop box without any access to computers or scanners. Finally, I can't think of anything more clunky and time consuming than trying to shuffle through dozens of pdfs to (a) figure out who the top ten are and (b) check to make sure they are properly completed scorecards.

    TL;DR: It adds a layer of complexity to a system that may cause more problems than it solves. And probably would take more time than manually going through them.

    It might take more time, but that time is run in parallel by each player rather than 1 or 2 comp guys at night, so it should be much faster.

    You dont need to make the data accessible remotely, but that would be a simple feature for the handicapmaster guys (for example) to add.

    I dont think the suggestion was that you just lash a few photos onto dropbox, rather the software takes care of it all for you, removing the need to manually sort and find paper cards.

    also, I think you misunderstood the idea...you dont just have a bunch of PDFs, you have an image of the scorecard attached to the score itself, system sorts the winners as usual and then comp guys can view the scan of the winning cards to confirm scores/signatures etc.


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