Any "Irish" Approved Grid Tied Inverter with support for 48v Battery setup ?

championc · 17-09-2019 11:35am #1

Hi all,

Does anyone know of an Irish Approved Grid Tied Inverter (with Limiter) which will support the connection of 48v battery setup ?

Thanks in advance

air · 17-09-2019 4:11pm

championc wrote: »

Hi all,

Does anyone know of an Irish Approved Grid Tied Inverter (with Limiter) which will support the connection of 48v battery setup ?

Thanks in advance

Not a grid tied inverter as such but pretty sure the ME3000 / Pylontech AC coupled battery system is 48V.
Another option is the Growatt range which sits in the DC side of your inverter so Irish grid standards are moot. They are also 48V.
Why do you need a 48V system?

championc · 17-09-2019 8:26pm

air wrote: »

Not a grid tied inverter as such but pretty sure the ME3000 / Pylontech AC coupled battery system is 48V.
Another option is the Growatt range which sits in the DC side of your inverter so Irish grid standards are moot. They are also 48V.
Why do you need a 48V system?

I have 3 strings of 3 x 24v 300w panels feeding into a Charge Controller which outputs 48v to 4 strings of 4 x 12v 90Ah Lead Acid Batteries, which all connects to a 1kw grid tied with limiter inverter - which is EN certified (but which doesn't implicitly specify Ireland).

It all works perfectly and with the limiter, prevents any feedback to the grid. However, I'd prefer to be fully compliant

I suppose I'd be prepared to re-configure my panel or battery strings if absolutely necessary.

17-09-2019 8:44pm

Elusive hardware.

If you look at the difference in compliance standards you'd propably not have much to get upset about.
It's marginally tighter constraints on operational voltage, disconnect isolation timeouts and some such. EU standards are high.
"Irish standards" are cost prohibitive for manufacturers to meet given the teeny market share. Which makes it a sellers market for those that do unfortunately.

What is the inverter with limiter you currently have? I'm interested for my own playing with.

championc · 17-09-2019 8:55pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Elusive hardware.

If you look at the difference in compliance standards you'd propably not have much to get upset about.
It's marginally tighter constraints on operational voltage, disconnect isolation timeouts and some such. EU standards are high.
"Irish standards" are cost prohibitive for manufacturers to meet given the teeny market share. Which makes it a sellers market for those that do unfortunately.

What is the inverter with limiter you currently have? I'm interested for my own playing with.

I think it's only difference is that the Irish standard insists on testing at 230v +/- 10% whereas I think this was tested at the Euro standard at 230v +/- 15% - something which can be limited by an under / over voltage breaker

I've a Ningbo Deye GTIL2 - https://www.deyeinverter.com/product/grid-tie-inverter-with-limiter/solar-power-grid-tie-inverter/portable-cart-2-2-2-2.html

Super unit to be honest

air · 18-09-2019 10:52am

Would you not be better off just connecting the 3 panels in series and using a normal grid tie inverter dispensing with the batteries?

I wouldn't have thought they would be very effective at such a small scale.

Surely your background load exceeds the PV output almost all the time meaning there's very little left for recharge?
Assuming the system is integrated into a normal home that is.

unkel · 18-09-2019 11:01am

air wrote: »

Would you not be better off just connecting the 3 panels in series and using a normal grid tie inverter dispensing with the batteries?

I wouldn't have thought they would be very effective at such a small scale.

Surely your background load exceeds the PV output almost all the time meaning there's very little left for recharge?

Look at his figures again, he has 9 panels of 300W each!

air · 18-09-2019 11:09am

unkel wrote: »

Look at his figures again, he has 9 panels of 300W each!

Apologies, I did indeed misread as 3 X 300W only!

18-09-2019 3:37pm

You can use an isolated Irish standard inverter on the battery output through a SOC monitoring device with a programmable contact.
Not many grid tie inverters operate at 48V.
275V battery would be ideal for this setup with a serious mega-bucks contactor.
All a bit untidy. I don't know of any off the shelf solution.

That inverter combi doesn't look EU compliant. Does it have anti-islanding?

air · 18-09-2019 3:44pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

275V battery would be ideal for this setup with a serious mega-bucks contactor.

And how would you charge it?

18-09-2019 3:47pm

With PV

Export threshold is the charge controller + OVD

air · 18-09-2019 3:55pm

Any links to economical 300V charge controllers, fuses & disconnects? Not to mention the battery enclosure and isolation.

air · 18-09-2019 3:55pm

Any links to economical 300V charge controllers, fuses & disconnects? Not to mention the battery enclosure and isolation.

18-09-2019 3:58pm

A man of your resources can surely find them.
Export threshold is the charge controller.

air · 18-09-2019 4:22pm

Pure fantasy from a practical point of view for an average end user.

18-09-2019 4:30pm

EV land is 600VDC. The Luas is what 800VDC?
We can doesn't mean we should.

air · 18-09-2019 5:19pm

Agreed, of no relevance in the consumer environment and not really much point in raising it here one might suggest.

championc · 18-09-2019 6:12pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

That inverter combi doesn't look EU compliant. Does it have anti-islanding?

Obviously looks are deceiving. It has an EN50438 cert

18-09-2019 7:07pm

Easier get an intertek cert than underwriters laboratories.
The anti-islanding trip disconnect exceeds British maximum allowable dwell. I'm sure it works ok though.

championc · 21-09-2019 5:37pm

Do any "Irish" Grid Tied inverters come with a limiter ? My current setup gives me power all day and night. If I'm pulling 250w, I don't want to have a 3kw inverter dumping 2.75kw out to the grid, when I currently save that power for evenings and next morning use.

I can easily re-string the panels onto one long string, and I could also re-strung the batteries into a different configuration (so my 16 x 12v could become 1 x 192v or 2 x 96v) and hang them directly off an inverter, thus eliminating my Charge Controller.

I think it would be crazy to get an inverter and not incorporate the batteries.

Thanks again

air · 21-09-2019 7:13pm

The Solis hybrid inverters seem to be 48V and might be worth a look:
https://solartricity.ie/solis-hybrid-off-grid-energy-storage-solar-inverter/

I wouldn't recommend going to 96V or 192V on the battery side. The cabling, switch gear and containment required would be neither cheap nor easily obtained, not to mention the safety concerns.

championc · 21-09-2019 11:36pm

Hmmm

With these "Hybrid" units, it certainly looks like I could use the User Defined batteries option to set the required settings to work with my lead acid batteries.

However, will it just output the power you draw, with any surplus going into your Batteries ?

And if you had the 3kw unit and you went to draw 4kw (kettle boils while dishwasher running), would it draw 3kw from the Inverter and the other 1kw from the grid ?

Thanks in advance

unkel · 21-09-2019 11:58pm

championc wrote: »

However, will it just output the power you draw, with any surplus going into your Batteries ?

And if you had the 3kw unit and you went to draw 4kw (kettle boils while dishwasher running), would it draw 3kw from the Inverter and the other 1kw from the grid ?

Yes and yes.

If you're considering buying one, go for the 5kW for above reasons and given the fact that it costs barely any more than the lower powered ones. Have a look at solartricity for the spec sheets for them:

Linky

They are very expensive though. That's why I went for a standard Solis inverter (not a hybrid) and a separate grid tied battery inverter. This cost me less than half compared to the hybrid inverter, but my setup is not as efficient.

24-09-2019 6:12pm

A DC charge controller is more efficient than a mains battery charger saddled to an inverter (this is what a hybrid inverter is).

AC coupling suits power on demand.
DC coupling suits stored power.

The less conversions you do the better. These hybrid inverters are a jack of all trades box. If you design to your usage you can do better than them for a lot less cost.

unkel · 24-09-2019 8:11pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

These hybrid inverters are a jack of all trades box. If you design to your usage you can do better than them for a lot less cost.

The hybrid Solis inverters are over €1,500 incl VAT. Insane amount of money to spend imho. But it helps if you are getting a €3,800 subsidy for your system.

24-09-2019 9:59pm

Can you put a price on reassuringly expensive?

rolion · 24-09-2019 10:39pm

What about this one H E R E !?

24-09-2019 10:44pm

The ford fiesta of invert-combi's.

If you want a good inverter get a low frequency one.

championc · 26-09-2019 10:50pm

rolion wrote: »

What about this one H E R E !?

I believe that's an off-grid one as opposed to a Grid-Tied one - meaning that the load on it must be less than it's rating.

Aside from this, it would need to be Irish certified, and that's where I'm caught out with my current perfectly working Grid-tied setup.

air · 27-09-2019 7:51pm

From a pragmatic approach, once an inverter complies to an EU standard it has been deemed safe.
The individual country settings are more related to grid stability and protection settings.
While it would be better if every inverter was 100% compliant with the local requirements, in the real world the impact of your 1kW inverter is likely to be nil.
Some domestic appliances are likely to feed far worse back into the grid in the event of a power failure than your inverter.

Any "Irish" Approved Grid Tied Inverter with support for 48v Battery setup ?

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