GAA Transfers/Blow in's club and intercounty - 'taking the Michael'

gormdubhgorm · 06-09-2019 5:47pm #1

It is a very controversial area both at club level and intercounty level.

There is a number of reasons why players would move club to another county.

1) Connection to the area through parents like Declan Darcy (Dublin) who played with Leitrim, Conor Cox (Kerry) who played with the Rossies.
Sometimes a connection to an area alone is not enough - Michael Deegan (Dublin) moved to Meath (as a young fella) played for Ashbourne but never wore the Meath jersey - which annoyed some Meath people.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/582279/michael-deegan-completes-transfer-from-donaghmore-ashbourne-to-dublin-club-na-fianna/

Nathan Mullins son of Brian was Vincents player of the year 2012 - but grew up in Donegal and now plays for the county.

http://blog.elverys.ie/2018/07/12/dublin-born-donegal-player-nathan-mullins-story-loyaltiesdivide/

2) Some self-identify as being from that county

Eric Lowndes plays for Dublin but his bother Stuart plays for Meath

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-was-always-going-to-be-home-for-eric-lowndes-1.3537938

3) A number of transfers are usually part of a 'project' at club or county level.

It is seen at Oliver Plunketts got Jayo got from Na Fianna, Paul Galvin (Kerry), Tomas Corrigan (Fermanagh)

It did not work for them they have still to win a Dublin club title, despite having the Brogan family at the club.

Kildare GAA in the 90's around the Mick O'Dwyer era

Gavin Keane (Waterford) and Brian Lacey (Tipperary), Karl O'Dwyer (Kerry), Brian Cahill (Tipperary), Gavin Keane (Waterford)

https://www.independent.ie/sport/imports-are-making-the-natives-restless-in-kildare-26195208.html

My examples at club level are mostly based on Dublin GAA as they are the ones I am familiar with.

Some like Colm Parkinson suggest that a quota on intercounty 'blow in' players for clubs should be brought in.

As it leads to an unfair situation for other Dublin GAA Clubs and other clubs in the AI club competition.
It also limits the development of local Dublin players.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/off-the-ball/off-the-ball-curb-dublin-gaa-clubs-unfair-edge-with-import-quota-34359588.html

Parkinson lists the infamous situation with Parnells GAA in Coolock only about 6 years ago.
Parnells started to imported ten players!

Colm Parkinson (Laois), Darren Rooney (Laois) , MJ Tierney (Laois), Colm Begley (Laois), Andy Mallon (Armagh), Conor Mortimer (Mayo), Andreas Doyle (Wexford), Ciaran McKeever (Amragh), Rory Quinlivan and Johnny Murtagh (Armagh)

They flopped badly and have done nothing of note.

Na Fianna of Dublin also did thier share of importing both inside Dublin Mick Galvin (Plunketts), and outside Des Mackin (Armagh) Kieran McGeeney (Armagh) who had a successful team about twenty years ago

I suppose two non-dubs are not that excessive?

Even Vincents have a good few in Marino - Fiachra Breathnach (Galway) Enda Varley (Mayo)
(Always surprised that Varley was not given more of a chance with Mayo he is great for Vincents the times I saw him.)
There is also Lorcan Smyth (Westmeath), Brendan Egan (Sligo).
So that is four in total for the Marino men.

Kilmacud Crokes have Brian Kavanagh (Longford), Eugene Keating from Cavan, Kevin Dyas (Armagh) - That is three for the Stillorgan club.

4)Opportunism - some just want to move to a more successful club

Eamon Fennell's transfer from O'Tooles to Vincents.
Or Donie Vaughan moving from Balinrobe to Castlebar Mitchells

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/transfer-sagas-leave-bitter-imprint-36691672.html

It can be a very bitter drawn out saga.

I assume it is the same reasons that the lads from other counties followed Micko they wanted to move to a county with a chance of success/invested in the idea of a high profile manager.

I mean you look at the Dublin hurlers they did the same thing with Anthony Daly brought in Ryan O'Dwyer (Tipperary), Brian Corcoran (Galway), Maurice O'Brien (Limerick)

----

How much is too much? Should it be just a free for all players allowed to move to any club/county they wish?

Or is it more nuanced should there be a connection there like Darcy/Cox/Deegan?

Or should it be limited to a certain amount of blow in's per club so that it does not go beyond taking a Michael Deegan, and just ends up in a free for all?
Or let people go where they want espeically of they are moving there for work?

I forgot to mention that Vinnie Murphy hurled for Kerry, and in hindsight believed it cheapened the jersey of Both Dublin and Kerry.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/vinnie-murphy-kerry-dublin-final/

Bonniedog · 06-09-2019 6:25pm

Where a player is living and working in a county and decides to transfer then I see no problem with that.

Good examples are Cox with Rossie footballers and Darragh O'Connell with Cuala/Dublin.

And yes I know there are Mayo and other lads who stay with their home sides, which is commendable, but probably not sustainable for too long.

The egregious ones are where like Parnell and Fianna players were "enticed" through various means to play. I think some of the Parnells emigres were even fixed up with a place to stay in Dublin.

Brought them no luck thankfully and they became the most despised club in the county, which is difficult enough given the stern competition :-)

Poor_old_gill · 06-09-2019 8:32pm

Cox doesnt live and work in Roscommon as far as I'm aware - he still plays with Listowel and Feale Rangers in Kerry.
He was marked out of it last week in the county championship by Padraig Reidy who used be on the Kerry panel about 10 years ago.

I find the Lowdnes one very strange to be honest - especially with all his family being from Meath.

That Parnell's fiasco has more or less killed the club - very sad to be honest

Bonniedog · 06-09-2019 8:39pm

Lowndes plays with Peregrines. I assumed he was from that part of Dublin, but wouldn't be sure so not going to contradict you.

Audioslaven · 06-09-2019 9:15pm

it very rarely works out for players leaving their home club and usually players do it when they are on the way down.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2019 9:31pm

Audioslaven wrote: »

it very rarely works out for players leaving their home club and usually players do it when they are on the way down.

Our club went that way after we narrowly lost a junior hurling final. Most of us were well over the hill so they took in a good few runners in. Eventually proved successful but hurling almost dead in club now.

franglan · 06-09-2019 10:19pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Cox doesnt live and work in Roscommon as far as I'm aware - he still plays with Listowel and Feale Rangers in Kerry.
He was marked out of it last week in the county championship by Padraig Reidy who used be on the Kerry panel about 10 years ago.

I find the Lowdnes one very strange to be honest - especially with all his family being from Meath.

That Parnell's fiasco has more or less killed the club - very sad to be honest

Conor Cox works in Carrick on Shannon, was to move to Éire Óg an intermediate club in West Roscommon (his father is from there originally) but I believe Ros GAA rules mean you have to have played championship for your club before playing for the county team so the move to Éire Óg didn't happen at the back end of last year. There was talk of him moving to Judes then in Dublin around same time but he would have encountered the same problem so stuck with Listowel.

Gael85 · 06-09-2019 10:30pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Lowndes plays with Peregrines. I assumed he was from that part of Dublin, but wouldn't be sure so not going to contradict you.

Lowndes parents are from Meath and family might have moved back there in recent years. Eric and brothers are from Dublin though I think went to school in Meath . His brothers and Robbie McCarthy move to Peter's Dunboyne after falling out with Peregrines. Stuart Lowndes played with Dublin minors about 10 years ago. Played a couple O'Byrne cup with Meath last year.

Gael85 · 06-09-2019 10:37pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Cox doesnt live and work in Roscommon as far as I'm aware - he still plays with Listowel and Feale Rangers in Kerry.
He was marked out of it last week in the county championship by Padraig Reidy who used be on the Kerry panel about 10 years ago.

I find the Lowdnes one very strange to be honest - especially with all his family being from Meath.

That Parnell's fiasco has more or less killed the club - very sad to be honest

Parnell's are now mid table in D3. Signing lads like Wooly was going one way. Colm Begley was the only outsider who gave a good service to the club. Cluxton stepped down to second team as didnt like the way senior team was been ran.

Gael85 · 06-09-2019 10:40pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is a very controversial area both at club level and intercounty level.

There is a number of reasons why players would move club to another county.

1) Connection to the area through parents like Declan Darcy (Dublin) who played with Leitrim, Conor Cox (Kerry) who played with the Rossies, Michael Deegan (Meath) who plays with the Dubs.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/582279/michael-deegan-completes-transfer-from-donaghmore-ashbourne-to-dublin-club-na-fianna/

Nathan Mullins son of Brian was Vincents player of the year 2012 - but grew up in Donegal and now plays for the county.

http://blog.elverys.ie/2018/07/12/dublin-born-donegal-player-nathan-mullins-story-loyaltiesdivide/

2) Some self-identify as being from that county

Eric Lowndes plays for Dublin but his bother Stuart plays for Meath

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-was-always-going-to-be-home-for-eric-lowndes-1.3537938

3) A number of transfers are usually part of a 'project' at club or county level.

It is seen at Oliver Plunketts got Jayo got from Na Fianna, Paul Galvin (Kerry), Tomas Corrigan (Fermanagh)

It did not work for them they have still to win a Dublin club title, despite having the Brogan family at the club.

Kildare GAA in the 90's around the Mick O'Dwyer era

Gavin Keane (Waterford) and Brian Lacey (Tipperary), Karl O'Dwyer (Kerry), Brian Cahill (Tipperary), Gavin Keane (Waterford)

https://www.independent.ie/sport/imports-are-making-the-natives-restless-in-kildare-26195208.html

My examples at club level are mostly based on Dublin GAA as they are the ones I am familiar with.

Some like Colm Parkinson suggest that a quota on intercounty 'blow in' players for clubs should be brought in.

As it leads to an unfair situation for other Dublin GAA Clubs and other clubs in the AI club competition.
It also limits the development of local Dublin players.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/off-the-ball/off-the-ball-curb-dublin-gaa-clubs-unfair-edge-with-import-quota-34359588.html

Parkinson lists the infamous situation with Parnells GAA in Coolock only about 6 years ago.
Parnells started to imported ten players!

Colm Parkinson (Laois), Darren Rooney (Laois) , MJ Tierney (Laois), Colm Begley (Laois), Andy Mallon (Armagh), Conor Mortimer (Mayo), Andreas Doyle (Wexford), Ciaran McKeever (Amragh), Rory Quinlivan and Johnny Murtagh (Armagh)

They flopped badly and have done nothing of note.

Na Fianna of Dublin also did thier share of importing both inside Dublin Mick Galvin (Plunketts), and outside Des Mackin (Armagh) Kieran McGeeney (Armagh) who had a successful team about twenty years ago

I suppose two non-dubs are not that excessive?

Even Vincents have a good few in Marino - Fiachra Breathnach (Galway) Enda Varley (Mayo)
(Always surprised that Varley was not given more of a chance with Mayo he is great for Vincents the times I saw him.)
There is also Lorcan Smyth (Westmeath), Brendan Egan (Sligo).
So that is four in total for the Marino men.

Kilmacud Crokes have Brian Kavanagh (Longford), Eugene Keating from Cavan, Kevin Dyas (Armagh) - That is three for the Stillorgan club.

4)Opportunism - some just want to move to a more successful club

Eamon Fennell's transfer from O'Tooles to Vincents.
Or Donie Vaughan moving from Balinrobe to Castlebar Mitchells

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/transfer-sagas-leave-bitter-imprint-36691672.html

It can be a very bitter drawn out saga.

I assume it is the same reasons that the lads from other counties followed Micko they wanted to move to a county with a chance of success/invested in the idea of a high profile manager.

I mean you look at the Dublin hurlers they did the same thing with Anthony Daly brought in Ryan O'Dwyer (Tipperary), Brian Corcoran (Galway), Maurice O'Brien (Limerick)

----

How much is too much? Should it be just a free for all players allowed to move to any club/county they wish?

Or is it more nuanced should there be a connection there like Darcy/Cox/Deegan?

Or should it be limited to a certain amount of blow in's per club so that it does not go beyond taking a Michael Deegan, and just ends up in a free for all?
Or let people go where they want espeically of they are moving there for work?

I forgot to mention that Vinnie Murphy hurled for Kerry, and in hindsight believed it cheapened the jersey of Both Dublin and Kerry in hindsight.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/mcorry/vinnie-murphy-kerry-dublin-final/

Michael Deegan was born in Dublin. Moved to Ashbourne when around 9/10 but still went to school in Dublin. Was involved in Dublin squads from u14 up. Has since transferred to Na Fianna.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2019 10:40pm

Parnells lost the plot. Even their bar has turned into just another big carvery kip where people go to watch Sky. Wouldn't be surprised if they had some EPL match on during the final last week :-)

Was on the Isles bus with both Deegans in 2001 on way to and from the Kerry game in Thurles. Although that must have been older brother. Which reminds me of how old I am :-(

In fact it was P.J Buckley and his son!

Gael85 · 06-09-2019 10:42pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Parnells lost the plot. Even their bar has turned into just another big carvery kip where people go to watch Sky. Wouldn't be surprised if they had some EPL match on during the final last week :-)

Weren't their finances been questioned by county board last year?

Poor_old_gill · 06-09-2019 10:45pm

franglan wrote: »

Conor Cox works in Carrick on Shannon, was to move to Éire Óg an intermediate club in West Roscommon (his father is from there originally) but I believe Ros GAA rules mean you have to have played championship for your club before playing for the county team so the move to Éire Óg didn't happen at the back end of last year. There was talk of him moving to Judes then in Dublin around same time but he would have encountered the same problem so stuck with Listowel.

So he lives in Leitrim?
The fact that he is getting well marked out of it in the Kerry championship just backs up what most Kerry people were saying about him not making our panel

Gael85 · 06-09-2019 10:48pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Where a player is living and working in a county and decides to transfer then I see no problem with that.

Good examples are Cox with Rossie footballers and Darragh O'Connell with Cuala/Dublin.

And yes I know there are Mayo and other lads who stay with their home sides, which is commendable, but probably not sustainable for too long.

The egregious ones are where like Parnell and Fianna players were "enticed" through various means to play. I think some of the Parnells emigres were even fixed up with a place to stay in Dublin.

Brought them no luck thankfully and they became the most despised club in the county, which is difficult enough given the stern competition :-)

In Na Fianna have got their house in order now and doing very well at underage. Won a few Dublin minors titles but that success hasn't transferred to senior team yet.

rossie1977 · 06-09-2019 10:48pm

Cox is living in Loughglynn in Roscommon.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2019 11:12pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Weren't their finances been questioned by county board last year?

DCB or CAB

(Don't tell Selig....)

franglan · 06-09-2019 11:23pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

So he lives in Leitrim?
The fact that he is getting well marked out of it in the Kerry championship just backs up what most Kerry people were saying about him not making our panel

There's no border checks between the suburb of Cortober on the Roscommon side of Carrick and the Leitrim side thankfully. Enda Smith works in the same Leitrim office, might be talk about a switch to Leitrim so by that logic. If you want to make the point about him getting marked out of it in a Kerry club game - fire away, not relevant to this thread tbh.

Road-Hog · 07-09-2019 6:50am

Off the top of my head on the inter county scene

1. Larry Tompkins - Kildare man who played for cork
2. Shay Fahey also did likewise in late 80â€™s early 90’s
3. That Meyler manager of cork played for both Wexford and the langers even though he was a yellow belly native.
4. There were two kk hurlers that played with dubs in late 80’s / early 90’s.....a Morrissey chap was one
5. an Antrim player (Keith Barr) also defected to dunlin in 80/90’s
6. Joe Mckenna who played for limerick in the 70/80’s was not a limerick native

Poor_old_gill · 07-09-2019 9:10am

franglan wrote: »

There's no border checks between the suburb of Cortober on the Roscommon side of Carrick and the Leitrim side thankfully. Enda Smith works in the same Leitrim office, might be talk about a switch to Leitrim so by that logic. If you want to make the point about him getting marked out of it in a Kerry club game - fire away, not relevant to this thread tbh.

I think you may have a persecution complex mate.

Also after all the hullabaloo earlier this year when most Roscommon posters on here were trying to convince us that Kerry had messed up and cox was great while those who have seen him play for years were backing our management- it is important to give an update so that people know the lay of the land

Bonniedog · 07-09-2019 9:14am

Road-Hog wrote: »

5. an Antrim player (Keith Barr) also defected to dunlin in 80/90’s

I'd have loved to have seen Keith with a stick …… from a safe distance

That was Ciarán Barr. He was high profile as he had been Antrim captain in 1989. Always suspected it had more to do with Vinnies trying to win SHC. Still lives here I think and managed the under 21s about ten years ago. Was good hurler.

Shiner and Morrissey were past their best when they came here although we gave Cats a close run in 1995 Leinster semi final.

1984baby · 07-09-2019 10:34am

Denis Byrne (KK) playing for Tipp

castletownman · 07-09-2019 11:54am

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'd have loved to have seen Keith with a stick …… from a safe distance

That was Ciarán Barr. He was high profile as he had been Antrim captain in 1989. Always suspected it had more to do with Vinnies trying to win SHC. Still lives here I think and managed the under 21s about ten years ago. Was good hurler.

Shiner and Morrissey were past their best when they came here although we gave Cats a close run in 1995 Leinster semi final.

Is that Mick Morrissey? He certainly gets around. I am open for correction, but I think he hurled at some level for Wexford, and is the current chairman of St.Martin's beside Johnstown Castle outside Wexford town.

beggars_bush · 07-09-2019 11:56am

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

So he lives in Leitrim?
The fact that he is getting well marked out of it in the Kerry championship just backs up what most Kerry people were saying about him not making our panel

That the long commutes back to Kerry are affecting him?

Bonniedog · 07-09-2019 12:09pm

castletownman wrote: »

Is that Mick Morrissey? He certainly gets around. I am open for correction, but I think he hurled at some level for Wexford, and is the current chairman of St.Martin's beside Johnstown Castle outside Wexford town.

Eamonn. It was actually a legitimate transfer as he was working in Dublin, got married here and had a house and played for O'Tooles which was closest senior team to where he lived.

That semi final day in 1995 was crazy. Yourselves and Offaly were also part of a double header and it was full! Had to move people across the pitch from the Cusack. I suppose it was just part of the "revolution years" vibe, that counties who had been out of limelight for decades were on verge of winning one; which of course was true for Clare and Wexford, and a revived Offaly, but sadly not for ourselves. Couple of near misses is all and absolutely destroyed in rematch with Cats in Parnell in 1996.

gormdubhgorm · 07-09-2019 12:27pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Michael Deegan was born in Dublin. Moved to Ashbourne when around 9/10 but still went to school in Dublin. Was involved in Dublin squads from u14 up. Has since transferred to Na Fianna.

Ah right so that is one of those in-between sort of ones.
I can't take him out of my original post now because it ruins my thread title!

I knew the Meath people were a bit annoyed about it when he played for Ashbourne.

Poor_old_gill · 07-09-2019 1:15pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

That the long commutes back to Kerry are affecting him?

When he was living here the short commute affected him aswell - he needs to find his goldilocks level of commute.

Maybe live in Gort or somewhere

Audioslaven · 07-09-2019 2:33pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I think you may have a persecution complex mate.

Also after all the hullabaloo earlier this year when most Roscommon posters on here were trying to convince us that Kerry had messed up and cox was great while those who have seen him play for years were backing our management- it is important to give an update so that people know the lay of the land

In fairness he has been very good for Roscommon this year. Why would they care bout what is going on in Kerry once he is delivering the goods for Roscommon. Anyone can see he has been good for them this year and that's the important point and the only point they should judge him by and not this lay of the land bs.

Poor_old_gill · 07-09-2019 2:46pm

Audioslaven wrote: »

In fairness he has been very good for Roscommon this year. Why would they care bout what is going on in Kerry once he is delivering the goods for Roscommon. Anyone can see he has been good for them this year and that's the important point and the only point they should judge him by and not this lay of the land bs.

Good over a few games in Connaught which is a small sample size - not so good in Super 8's.

The reason why I raise this, like I explained above, is for all the questioning of Kerry's selections which resulted of not picking him.

I, along with others, made the argument that he was never great in our county championship and that there were several lads not on the panel who were better - this is just me reaffirming that through evidence.

And it is important to give an update on such a player's situation as it gives context to decisions and stops people making over the top judgements based on very little information

seligehgit · 07-09-2019 3:47pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Parnell's are now mid table in D3. Signing lads like Wooly was going one way. Colm Begley was the only outsider who gave a good service to the club. Cluxton stepped down to second team as didnt like the way senior team was been ran.

Yikes I didn't realise Parnells had fallen so far.

seligehgit · 07-09-2019 3:51pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Eamonn. It was actually a legitimate transfer as he was working in Dublin, got married here and had a house and played for O'Tooles which was closest senior team to where he lived.

That semi final day in 1995 was crazy. Yourselves and Offaly were also part of a double header and it was full! Had to move people across the pitch from the Cusack. I suppose it was just part of the "revolution years" vibe, that counties who had been out of limelight for decades were on verge of winning one; which of course was true for Clare and Wexford, and a revived Offaly, but sadly not for ourselves. Couple of near misses is all and absolutely destroyed in rematch with Cats in Parnell in 1996.

Fine hurler Eamonn Morrissey but he was definitely past his peak at the time of the transfer.

manofwisdom · 07-09-2019 3:54pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Good over a few games in Connaught which is a small sample size - not so good in Super 8's.

The reason why I raise this, like I explained above, is for all the questioning of Kerry's selections which resulted of not picking him.

I, along with others, made the argument that he was never great in our county championship and that there were several lads not on the panel who were better - this is just me reaffirming that through evidence.

And it is important to give an update on such a player's situation as it gives context to decisions and stops people making over the top judgements based on very little information

Played 12 league and championship games for Roscommon this year scoring 1-54 and 10 of those games was against Div 1 opposition which is a enough sample size to judge. He scored 0-15 in the 3 Connacht championship games this summer and 0-14 in his three Super 8s games. That's just taking his scoring into account and from what i seen of him he's been good in general play, creating/assisting plenty of scores on top of what he scored.

What is really important is keeping to the topic of the thread and as said already what you are posting here about Conor Cox is not relevant to this thread.

GAA Transfers/Blow in's club and intercounty - 'taking the Michael'

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