The hand pass over the bar

lawred2 · 01-09-2019 8:58pm #1

Is there any appetite in GAA circles for striking out the hand pass over the bar as a score?

It's a kop out for me and I hate seeing it...

I have no issue with fisting or palming the ball for a score but running with the ball and then hand passing it over leaves me cold.

North of 32 · 01-09-2019 9:20pm

If a player has worked themselves into a scoring position they should take whatever decision they think is best. And a near-guaranteed point is almost always the right decision in my estimation.

Forge83 · 01-09-2019 9:24pm

North of 32 wrote: »

If a player has worked themselves into a scoring position they should take whatever decision they think is best. And a near-guaranteed point is almost always the right decision in my estimation.

But it’s Football.....not handball.
Would agree with the OP. Enough hand passing in the game, should be removed as a scoring option for points.

Euphoriasean · 01-09-2019 9:52pm

North of 32 wrote: »

If a player has worked themselves into a scoring position they should take whatever decision they think is best. And a near-guaranteed point is almost always the right decision in my estimation.

Don't think that really answers the OP question,they on about a rule change. Personally dislike both the handpass and the fist pass over the bar. Each to their own though.

MayoAreMagic · 01-09-2019 10:53pm

Forge83 wrote: »

But it’s Football.....not handball.
Would agree with the OP. Enough hand passing in the game, should be removed as a scoring option for points.

Well going on that rationale, they shouldn't be able to use their hands at all.
There are instances where the only option is a fist over the bar. I dont see why people hate it so much.
If anything needs fine tuning it is the whole kickouts scenario. I dont think loading up one half so a team cant kick the ball out is really a good direction to be going in for the sport. When a team scores there should be some restart offered to the other team, similar to how they kick off again in soccer.

lawred2 · 01-09-2019 10:57pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well going on that rationale, they shouldn't be able to use their hands at all.
There are instances where the only option is a fist over the bar. I dont see why people hate it so much.

It's the 'only option' because it's available as an option... Lads running down blind alleys only to throw it over the bar...

No idea where you're going with the kick out stuff

blanch152 · 01-09-2019 10:57pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well going on that rationale, they shouldn't be able to use their hands at all.
There are instances where the only option is a fist over the bar. I dont see why people hate it so much.

If anything needs fine tuning it is the whole kickouts scenario. I dont think loading up one half so a team cant kick the ball out is really a good direction to be going in for the sport. When a team scores there should be some restart offered to the other team, similar to how they kick off again in soccer.

Agree with you on the hand pass scores.

On the kick outs, think you are way off.

threeball · 02-09-2019 12:45pm

lawred2 wrote: »

It's the 'only option' because it's available as an option... Lads running down blind alleys only to throw it over the bar...

No idea where you're going with the kick out stuff

Exactly, good defending of forcing an attacker into a bad position isn't rewarded. The attacker has enough options to offload the ball either by hand or foot to a team mate rather than hand passing over the bar. i think the hand passed score should be done away with completely like it was in hurling. Hurling is a better spectacle for it and football would be too. It also would make attackers take on goal chances more often which would add to the excitement.

willabur · 02-09-2019 12:50pm

I'd happily get rid of it

I played a 7 aside indoor tournament in Canada a few years ago and they made a handpass worth 2 points. It turned the game into a horrible basketball style game where kicking was almost penalised. So taking out the value of the handpass over the bar would encourage more kicking for scores and more risktaking for going for goals. With so many managers risk averse I would say it would dramatically drop the number of goals we see in the game.

robbiezero · 02-09-2019 2:07pm

Would love to see the handpass point got rid of. No skill at all in it and very hard to defend.
Same for the palmed goal. Almost like a volleyball spike at this stage.

Insect Overlord · 02-09-2019 2:12pm

robbiezero wrote: »

Would love to see the handpass point got rid of. No skill at all in it and very hard to defend.
Same for the palmed goal. Almost like a volleyball spike at this stage.

"No skill at all" is very harsh. Try it yourself sometime when you're running at an angle to goal, under pressure from a fullback line, and see how you get on.

robbiezero · 02-09-2019 2:21pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

"No skill at all" is very harsh. Try it yourself sometime when you're running at an angle to goal, under pressure from a fullback line, and see how you get on.

Done it many times. No skill is harsh, agreed. A lot less skill and its a poor spectacle compared to a kicked point and is also a bit unfair on the defenders as its really hard to stop even if you have defended well.

jmayo · 02-09-2019 2:34pm

There are bigger issues out the field that need to be addressed.

blanch152 · 02-09-2019 4:23pm

When people are continuously complaining about packed defences ruining the game, someone else wants to stop something that helps beat a packed defence.

lawred2 · 02-09-2019 4:28pm

blanch152 wrote: »

When people are continuously complaining about packed defences ruining the game, someone else wants to stop something that helps beat a packed defence.

how do you work that out?

you might appreciate throwing the ball over people's heads as a skill - but I don't

As for beating a packed defense? Don't follow - how does running right into the middle of a packed defense until you're about 7/8 yards out undo the packed defense?

Surely it would be easier to kick it over their heads from 35 yards than run into the heart of them? That would require skill though.

BIGT4464 · 02-09-2019 4:28pm

robbiezero wrote: »

Would love to see the handpass point got rid of. No skill at all in it and very hard to defend.
Same for the palmed goal. Almost like a volleyball spike at this stage.

Totally agree, the two open palmed directional throw to the net is my pet hate. Should be a closed fist only.

threeball · 02-09-2019 4:39pm

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Totally agree, the two open palmed directional throw to the net is my pet hate. Should be a closed fist only.

Should be banned completely. Take away a lot of square ball controversy too.

threeball · 02-09-2019 4:43pm

blanch152 wrote: »

When people are continuously complaining about packed defences ruining the game, someone else wants to stop something that helps beat a packed defence.

It encourages packed defences as you need more guys close to the goal to prevent the piggy in the middle game of handpassing through defences and popping it over the bar.

PARlance · 02-09-2019 4:55pm

Can never really get the hate for the fisted point and love seeing a goal scored with the hand from a long ball.... but a short hand pass to a palmed goal...I wouldn't shed a tear if that was ruled out.

threeball · 02-09-2019 5:23pm

PARlance wrote: »

Can never really get the hate for the fisted point and love seeing a goal scored with the hand from a long ball.... but a short hand pass to a palmed goal...I wouldn't shed a tear if that was ruled out.

I'd have time for a fisted goal from a kick pass. The rest should be consigned to history.

lawred2 · 02-09-2019 6:01pm

PARlance wrote: »

Can never really get the hate for the fisted point and love seeing a goal scored with the hand from a long ball.... but a short hand pass to a palmed goal...I wouldn't shed a tear if that was ruled out.

I've no issue with the fisted goal... Just the hand pass over the bar.

Always Tired · 02-09-2019 6:15pm

It has to be struck by the hand doesn't it? I know there is a bit of leeway but as long as you can't blatantly throw it then as long as it goes over the bar it should be a point.

There's already enough of a lack of scoring, nearly every match you see at least one team going for an age without a point from play. Even after being gifted a one man advantage Kerry went at least ten minutes into the second half before scoring from play, every point was from a free.

Taking away scoring plays isn't going to help a game that's already bordering on unwatchable.

threeball · 02-09-2019 9:34pm

Always Tired wrote: »

It has to be struck by the hand doesn't it? I know there is a bit of leeway but as long as you can't blatantly throw it then as long as it goes over the bar it should be a point.

There's already enough of a lack of scoring, nearly every match you see at least one team going for an age without a point from play. Even after being gifted a one man advantage Kerry went at least ten minutes into the second half before scoring from play, every point was from a free.

Taking away scoring plays isn't going to help a game that's already bordering on unwatchable.

Scoring averages are the highest they've ever been so don't know where you're getting the lack of scoring idea.

Bonniedog · 02-09-2019 11:56pm

Fisted points were actually a lot more common in the 50s and 60s. Look at the old film. I think the great Galway teams of both decades used it to particular effect.

As someone else said it is way of beating a wall of defenders. Rules should never favour negativity.

Game is opening up as yesterday's final and other games proven. Can't think of any out and out negative team that even looked like making the eights.

MayoAreMagic · 03-09-2019 1:40am

lawred2 wrote: »

It's the 'only option' because it's available as an option... Lads running down blind alleys only to throw it over the bar...

No idea where you're going with the kick out stuff

But it isnt a blind alley when you can get to the point where you can fist it over...

Re the kickout stuff, well it isnt what the restart was intended to be, where open play was to be restarted and the game recommence, rather than the game revolving around the kickout itself. But teams have stumbled onto a kind of glitch in the system, where whenever the ball goes dead from a free for example, they can make it virtually impossible for 95% of goalkeepers to find a man from the restart even a couple of times. It is basically just jumped up set piece play - stoke city-esque tactics on steroids. The reward is probably too great and the ask put on the goalkeepers too harsh. That is why id look to reduce the effectiveness of this type of play. Just thought id explain what i meant, i dont want to derail the thread...

harpsman · 04-09-2019 10:51am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But it isnt a blind alley when you can get to the point where you can fist it over...

Re the kickout stuff, well it isnt what the restart was intended to be, where open play was to be restarted and the game recommence, rather than the game revolving around the kickout itself. But teams have stumbled onto a kind of glitch in the system, where whenever the ball goes dead from a free for example, they can make it virtually impossible for 95% of goalkeepers to find a man from the restart even a couple of times. It is basically just jumped up set piece play - stoke city-esque tactics on steroids. The reward is probably too great and the ask put on the goalkeepers too harsh. That is why id look to reduce the effectiveness of this type of play. Just thought id explain what i meant, i dont want to derail the thread...

If anything it makes kick outs exactly what was intended and how it was for 100 years before the short kick out or picking out a man on the run, which only started with Cluxton.

When the opposing team press up the goalkeeper has to lump it out in the general direction of a good fielder and let them fight it out there, exactly what every kick out used to be.

Would love to see the hand pass point abolished-theyre so boring,even the crowd reaction is very flat after one, compared to a kicked point; would rather see the attacker shoot, would lead to more goals as well. If it means players arent able to throw the ball over the bar from the endline then I'll not miss that.

Also agree on the volleyball spike into the net-maybe if you receive a handpass you cant score a goal with open palm.

Hammer Archer · 04-09-2019 2:14pm

I remember 10 years ago, David Bray scored an exceptional fisted point against Mayo in the All Ireland quarter final:
https://youtu.be/rUQxd8N9FsM?t=688

To this day, I've no idea how he hit it so hard.

flasher0030 · 05-09-2019 1:52pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I remember 10 years ago, David Bray scored an exceptional fisted point against Mayo in the All Ireland quarter final:
https://youtu.be/rUQxd8N9FsM?t=688

To this day, I've no idea how he hit it so hard.

Wow. I wouldn't kick it that far. Some piece of skill.

Strumms · 05-09-2019 2:33pm

North of 32 wrote: »

If a player has worked themselves into a scoring position they should take whatever decision they think is best. And a near-guaranteed point is almost always the right decision in my estimation.

This 100%. The people coming out with the argument “ ahhh but it’s ‘football’ ”. I’d say to them then if they’d advocate banning players having the ability to field the ball, hand pass the ball ? Neanderthal stuff, using ones hands and the ability to score with them has been an important facet of the game for centuries, it should and WILL continue despite the nonsense posted to the contrary.

elefant · 05-09-2019 2:43pm

The only handpass I'd like to see banned is the handpass directly back to the goalkeeper after receiving a kickout.

Tomw86 · 05-09-2019 2:43pm

I don't understand how people would want to get rid of this.

Using the same argument with regards to the use of the hands, surely the ''throw-in'' is very anti-football too as it's contested and won using only the hands, as are most long kick-outs.

Silly argument.

The hand pass over the bar

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