Sibling Robbing money from father

The_Honeybadger · 10-08-2019 07:53PM

corklily05 wrote: »

All,

To answer a few queries, yes, i'm using boards as a place to vent. My brother thinks he's untouchable and his arrogance is plain to see. He never taught for a second that he'd ever got caught. i withholding some info that's available on bank statements that i have in my possession that will make this case stone wall. Please understand this as i dont want to give away my trump card.

To give feedback about me losing a brother and my father losing a son, i must stress that all action taken will be my father's way, i will not coerce him into doing something he's not comfortable with. Can i ask genuinely how can my father and i go about this without a big falling out? Do we say nothing and pretend it never happened? If the family is tor apart then there's only one person at blame here and that's my brother.

I've taken a lot of your advise on board and will act on it. But, the actions of my bother are inexcusable and to many i reckon unforgivable. If this was to continue my father could've been completely cleaned out.

Many thanks for your contribution everyone

In short, your father cannot go ahead with legal action and expect to maintain a relationship with your brother. It’s just not feasible. A legal case will not only cause a rift in the family but it will make the issue very public. Your extended family, friends and neighbours will probably all get the details.

You father could confront your brother with your support, or possibly even with Garda support and try to settle the matter but if your brother is the type to do what he did I cannot see him paying any meaningful sum back.

Even with a court order he could make things difficult, claim inability to pay etc.

I think the stress and hardship that this could cause everyone far outweighs the small chance that your dad gets repaid.

OP, I think your father will probably have to accept the money is gone

dellas1979 · 11-08-2019 06:54PM

corklily05 wrote: »

To give feedback about me losing a brother and my father losing a son

This really really pissed me off - that you had to write this.

Lads, the brother saw the plot of land, fancied it (for himself), bought the shovel himself, and dug the hole himself. He did all this.

And yet posters have the cheek to blame the OP/father? I think people with this attitude would be of the same mind frame as the brother - takes no responsibility.

What he has done is criminal and abuse. He did this. He chose to do this. He didnt think about his father. He didnt think or care to think about the consequence of his actions.

He ripped his father off, ffs. His son ripped him off. An older and more vulnerable man, who is his father. And posters are giving out about the father not being able to use an ATM/manage his money - against his son?

corklily05 · 11-08-2019 07:30PM

dellas1979 wrote: »

This really really pissed me off - that you had to write this.

Lads, the brother saw the plot of land, fancied it (for himself), bought the shovel himself, and dug the hole himself. He did all this.

And yet posters have the cheek to blame the OP/father? I think people with this attitude would be of the same mind frame as the brother - takes no responsibility.

What he has done is criminal and abuse. He did this. He chose to do this. He didnt think about his father. He didnt think or care to think about the consequence of his actions.

He ripped his father off, ffs. His son ripped him off. An older and more vulnerable man, who is his father. And posters are giving out about the father not being able to use an ATM/manage his money - against his son?

I couldn't of said it better myself. With the way things are these days people see the victim as the criminal and vice versa. I must stress to anyone reading this that some of your feedback/comments have been out of line and out of context on the issue.

Just remember there is a real person behind this story and it just happens to be my father.

dellas1979 · 11-08-2019 08:08PM

I have sat my parents down (Id be the *teccie* one in the family) and explained to them ways in which they can get ripped off.

I do this often.

These are my folks - my folks who walk off and leave the door unlocked when going for a walk/doing the shopping.

Twice they have been caught out. Twice. By people they dont know. And they were so dismayed. They dont see the badness in the world - everyone is grand.

This is how they were brought up and see the world. It often reminds me of child-like - they do not see the world through our eyes. I think it is a lovely way to be.

To be clear, they are not the problem. Its the people wanting to rip them off who are. Just because they are vulnerable, doesnt give anyone a licence to behave how they want to.

Your brother should be on his knees begging mercy. And the shame should be shocking.

I wouldnt hold my breath tho - he has form to lie and distort things - so watch out for the twist in this (he will blame anyone else but himself).

poisonated · 11-08-2019 10:04PM

I couldn’t report my brother to the Gardai but completely understand that it may be necessary for you to do that.

corklily05 · 11-08-2019 10:17PM

poisonated wrote: »

I couldn’t report my brother to the Gardai but completely understand that it may be necessary for you to do that.

Thing is, my father deserves every cent paid back to him, i'm keeping my options open but other than turning up at his house with a hurley, a civil case is the only other way i can think of. Any suggestions?

Btw, i'ts not my prerogative to tear yp the family, i think we're gone past that point already. Either way, this will not end well

poisonated · 11-08-2019 10:46PM

corklily05 wrote: »

Thing is, my father deserves every cent paid back to him, i'm keeping my options open but other than turning up at his house with a hurley, a civil case is the only other way i can think of. Any suggestions?

Btw, i'ts not my prerogative to tear yp the family, i think we're gone past that point already. Either way, this will not end well

This is probably very obvious but would threatening that you are going to report him to the Gardai if he didn’t pay back the money work? I would never steal from my parents but if I had done that and I was given the option to pay back the money or have a very serious conviction, I would pay back the money in a heartbeat.

corklily05 · 11-08-2019 11:00PM

poisonated wrote: »

This is probably very obvious but would threatening that you are going to report him to the Gardai if he didn’t pay back the money work? I would never steal from my parents but if I had done that and I was given the option to pay back the money or have a very serious conviction, I would pay back the money in a heartbeat.

Could go that route but first of all he'll deny everything, secondly there's a baby on the way so he'll play the "i need to buy a cot or a pram this week, ill pay double next week" and so on..

I've looked into this and spoke to people i trust and are in the know, if my father is to get his money back, something more than a verbal agreement between parties needs to be done.

There's no way i'm accepting that my father won't see his money again as people have pointed out here, there's no way anybody should be able to help themselves to tens of thousands of their fathers money (without consent) with no repercussions

Alrigghtythen · 11-08-2019 11:17PM

corklily05 wrote: »

Could go that route but first of all he'll deny everything, secondly there's a baby on the way so he'll play the "i need to buy a cot or a pram this week, ill pay double next week" and so on..

I've looked into this and spoke to people i trust and are in the know, if my father is to get his money back, something more than a verbal agreement between parties needs to be done.

There's no way i'm accepting that my father won't see his money again as people have pointed out here, there's no way anybody should be able to help themselves to tens of thousands of their fathers money (without consent) with no repercussions

Have you considered that your father may forgive your brother and not expect the money back? You could then be excluded as you may be seen as the one who lives far away coming looking for money and causing trouble? It's something to consider as it is a possible outcome. Especially with a grandchild on the way

ILoveYourVibes · 11-08-2019 11:29PM

corklily05 wrote: »

Thing is, my father deserves every cent paid back to him, i'm keeping my options open but other than turning up at his house with a hurley, a civil case is the only other way i can think of. Any suggestions?

Btw, i'ts not my prerogative to tear yp the family, i think we're gone past that point already. Either way, this will not end well

Corklily

I Know how you feel its justified.

But you really haven't considered how your brother is going to react?

He will cut you and your father out of his life. He will stop your father seeing grandchildren etc. He is that type of person.

Yes he will pay the money back maybe monthly etc and that might be ONLY contact your father ever gets.

When you ask your brother for the money back ....do it in the most loving way possible. And accept you might not get it all back.

He may never see that grandchild.

Maybe you don't care but does your father?

And yes its all emotional manipulation etc.

But IF you are going to take on responsibility for your father's financial well being you are going to have to take on responsibility for his emotional well being too.

You have to find a way to do this without tearing your family apart. Because if that happens it won't be worth the money.

I promise you it won't be.

If you want to be the one to handle this rather than your father you have take real responsibility.

Being a 'boss' means having to say you are sorry even when its not your fault sometimes. Being a parent is the same.

Being a boss means taking part responsibility for other peoples actions sometimes. I am sorry but that is the real world.

LegacyUser · 12-08-2019 12:56AM

Regardless of what your friend "in the know" says, there is no guarantee that your brother will pay a cent back to your dad. I was privvy to the details of a similar theft recently. It was a member of a group, stealing large sums of money over the course of a decade from the group. The group got legal advice from someone "in the know" (a solicitor) and were told that the best option was to go at this softly softly. To appeal to his better nature, as a well known member of the community, to pay the money back and restore his name. He said if you go in all guns blazing threatening all sorts he could shut down and the group would never see a penny. The group were told if he spoke to a solicitor himself the first advice the solicitor would give him is to admit nothing and do not offer to pay a cent back. He said if it went to court it would cost a fortune and there would still be no way of recouping any of the money anyway.

Be careful about speaking to friends "in the know". Get independent advice from a solicitor, not a friend who's trying to spin a positive outcome to make you feel better.

It's unlikely your brother will pay anything back. If he is using your dad's money to fund his lifestyle, then obviously he can't afford it. That's why he's stealing. A drink and gambling addiction isn't something he will just stop so as to divert his money elsewhere.

CollyFlower · 12-08-2019 01:34AM

I think you're being too soft on your brother, if I was you I'd report it to the police without telling your brother, no need to tell the police that you think /know it's him unless they ask, just say you want to report a fraud, the police may be able to get the full extent of the fraud from the bank and then let it be up to your father if he wants to have him charged.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-08-2019 01:47AM

CollyFlower wrote: »

I think you're being too soft on your brother, if I was you I'd report it to the police without telling your brother, no need to tell the police that you think /know it's him unless they ask, just say you want to report a fraud, the police may be able to get the full extent of the fraud from the bank and then let it be up to your father if he wants to have him charged.

If you can ask the guards to not reveal your name etc. It will come out though if it goes to court.

12-08-2019 01:51AM

CollyFlower wrote: »

I think you're being too soft on your brother, if I was you I'd report it to the police without telling your brother, no need to tell the police that you think /know it's him unless they ask, just say you want to report a fraud, the police may be able to get the full extent of the fraud from the bank and then let it be up to your father if he wants to have him charged.

This is horrible advice. The name could come out during courts proceedings and suddenly she goes from being the honourable sibling to being a bit of a snake too.

lukesmom · 12-08-2019 07:47AM

Dont report him to the guards. The pin is changed and chances of further damage has been lowered. If you want to maintain the relationship between father and sibling you need to forget about the historic spending. A grandchild is on the way. Your father lives alone and your sibling lives close to him. There is much more at steak here than calling him out for past stealing is worth. I would maybe tell him that the pin has been changed because the bank noticed erratic spending on his account, not naming any names.

sportsfan90 · 12-08-2019 09:09AM

corklily05 wrote: »

There's no way i'm accepting that my father won't see his money again as people have pointed out here, there's no way anybody should be able to help themselves to tens of thousands of their fathers money (without consent) with no repercussions

That's not for you to decide. If your father accepts it, then that's that.

That's what posters here are saying to you, yes you're father was taken advantage of and it was a scummy thing to do, but you're turning it into you're own revenge against your brother. Of course he would deserve it, but it's not your decision.

You said yourself at the beginning that your dad doesn't like confrontation. If he chooses not to take it any further, that's his decision - not yours. Likewise, if he does want to take it further, by all means help out by printing out his bank statements etc.

The only thing you have to decide is if you want to continue your relationship with your brother.

Gerianam · 12-08-2019 09:29AM

I've looked into this and spoke to people i trust and are in the know, if my father is to get his money back, something more than a verbal agreement between parties needs to be done.

There's no way i'm accepting that my father won't see his money again as people have pointed out here, there's no way anybody should be able to help themselves to tens of thousands of their fathers money (without consent) with no repercussions[/QUOTE]

OP, this is not about you, these decisions are your father's to make and HIS only.

wiggle16 · 12-08-2019 12:50PM

corklily05 wrote: »

I've looked into this and spoke to people i trust and are in the know, if my father is to get his money back, something more than a verbal agreement between parties needs to be done.

There's no way i'm accepting that my father won't see his money again as people have pointed out here, there's no way anybody should be able to help themselves to tens of thousands of their fathers money (without consent) with no repercussions

It's not up to you. It doesn't matter whether or not you can accept the fact or not. That's the long and short of it.

It's up to your father to pursue the stolen money, and if he chooses not to there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
If he wants to pursue it then by all means help him if you want but if he doesn't want to you can't do it for him. It would be very foolish of him not to, but it's his choice.

You are angry because your father has been taken advantage of, and you want to do something about it to put it right, that's natural. I am the same, I have a massive dislike of unfairness and if someone I know is being treated unfairly then it really, really bothers me. But if he won't take it further then you need to grin and bear it. People need to make their own mistakes.

You've said several times that this situation will not end well - corklily if you get too involved and take this on then you will be the one to come out feeling sore, I promise you. Your father seems like he will do anything for a quiet life, even if it means leaving this be. If your father decides to leave this be for the sake of a quiet life but you decide to pursue it further then he will likely turn on you for "causing trouble" for him and you will be made out to be the bad guy.

The other side of it is one simple fact: the money is spent. Your brother is not going to give it back. Gardaí or no gardaí, the money is gone.

In every set of siblings there is one who always gets away with more than the others, for whatever reason. Whether he gets the money back or not, your father could well start giving your brother money again anyway. I would take a step back.

Call me Al · 12-08-2019 12:59PM

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/carersrelatives/protecting-older-people-from-abuse.html

The above link gives good advice, but I agree that ultimately it's not up to you if your father wants or gets his money back.
But firstly he does need to change his pin codes and not have all his money in a standard current account. I'd also bring my parent into the bank, ask to speak to a manager and explain what has been happening, and just have it flagged in case your sibling tries to get money across the counter in-branch at a later stage.

corklily05 · 12-08-2019 06:50PM

Hi Guys,

I've taken in all the advise and a lot of what you're saying is true. My father is ultimately the person who needs to pursue this if he wants his money back. If he wishes not to, there's not a whole pile i can do about it. A lot of the anger is from the fact that my own brother completely exploited my fathers vulnerability and took full advantage. You hear about this a lot but when it comes to your own front door out of the blue it really hits home what people are capable of where money is concerned.

I thank you all again and ill keep you posted. From conversations over the phone recently i'm gathering my father has more fight in him than i thought myself, time will tell though

Markcheese · 12-08-2019 07:36PM

Fair dues, keep your head up, and keep looking out for your dad ( and yourself)...
And try not to let things get you down..

Another day · 12-08-2019 08:01PM

https://www.ageaction.ie/how-we-can-help/elder-abuse
Maybe you can impartial advice from these.

A desperate situation for you and your dad. Some people have no morals, your brother being one.

An option is to reduce his inheritance by the amount stolen. Have it written into your father's will. If your dad is as vulnerable as you say then you need to get something in place to assist him and prevent a reoccurance of this situation.

wiggle16 · 13-08-2019 12:24PM

Mod nite:

As I believe you've got all the advice you are likely to get and this thread looks to have run its course, I am going to close this thread.

Thanks & grma all who posted.

Good luck corklily.

Thread locked

Sibling Robbing money from father

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