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Domestic Wind Turbine Urban

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  • 23-06-2019 5:57pm
    #1
    Coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭


    Has anyone come across a turbine that might work satisfactorily at the house/garden in Dublin, without needing planning permission?

    I’m fairly certain the answer’s no, but want to make sure that I’m doing what I can (period house, plenty of insulation and decent windows, A2W, EV, large PV-array, no battery).

    Payback not a primary consideration. Within reason, anything that I can do to help the environment will pass muster.


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    #2
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Hi
    Great seeing you interested in to this area.
    Started a DIY topic few months ago...after spending couple of months researching VAWT end up giving up as not feasible in the built estates location(s) in order to get the wind at speed and force to move the unit.

    I say just go with other aspects / projects for now and share your experience.
    I'll start with insulation as is the bigger and most rewarding project.

    Have fun...


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    #3
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Coltrane wrote: »
    Has anyone come across a turbine that might work satisfactorily at the house/garden in Dublin, without needing planning permission?

    I’m fairly certain the answer’s no, but want to make sure that I’m doing what I can (period house, plenty of insulation and decent windows, A2W, EV, large PV-array, no battery).

    Payback not a primary consideration. Within reason, anything that I can do to help the environment will pass muster.

    How large a Pv array ? Considering the max that you are allowed for self generation is limited to 6kw, if your wind turbine brought you over that amount you might have problems.

    Unless some form of limitation or switch between PC and wind could be done.

    That's before you look at size and potential of a wind turbine in your garden.


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    #4
    Coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Coltrane


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    How large a Pv array ? Considering the max that you are allowed for self generation is limited to 6kw, if your wind turbine brought you over that amount you might have problems.

    Unless some form of limitation or switch between PC and wind could be done.

    That's before you look at size and potential of a wind turbine in your garden.

    It’s 5kWp. I had in mind a piece of kit which would limit the export to the legal max, but that in practice the turbine would tend to produce more after dark.


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    #5
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    No offence but the wind turbine is very hard to predict its generated power "after dark" and before that... ;)
    You can get some limitators aka power dumpers so that when a certain threshold reached, it "consume" the electricity and slows down the turbine while limiting the export can be done at inverter level with some clever settings.

    Overall,a turbine is not efficient in estates and it can be dropped the case of it.


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    #6
    Coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Coltrane


    rolion wrote: »
    No offence but the wind turbine is very hard to predict its generated power "after dark" and before that... ;)
    You can get some limitators aka power dumpers so that when a certain threshold reached, it "consume" the electricity and slows down the turbine while limiting the export can be done at inverter level with some clever settings.

    Overall,a turbine is not efficient in estates and it can be dropped the case of it.

    None taken. The Climate Action Plan refers to a coming change in ‘building regulations’ to facilitate its aspirations re microgeneration.

    Most likely this refers to a change to planning law to facilitate more rooftop solar. But it could include an amendment to permit rooftop turbines.

    Would that make city turbines more viable, or would there still be too much shelter on urban roofs?


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    #7
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Coltrane wrote: »
    Would that make city turbines more viable, or would there still be too much shelter on urban roofs?

    I had to mention the "no offence" as some posters here are sensitive to wind(s) ...

    I love the ideea of having some small turbines on the roof of the houses but quite tricky in existing ones.
    Structural i see the main problem,as the roof thrusts are not designed to take the extra load. Not mentioning the vibration and noise..i know mentioning the noise will drive crazy anyone but still are present at small RPMs. Vibration will be a big no go as that will affect the house adn the turbine,the pol eiwll need to be well attached to the side of the house and / or anchored with wire to some adjacent buildings ...or ...well fixed in solid foundation inside the attic.

    Performance wise,i will say you will get a minim few hundreds rpm but output wil be in low,very low hundreds barely covering the base load or enough strength to get the rotor / stator beating the friction force.

    Have a look at my post HERE... few toughts stolen and applied from other people more crazy than us...

    Let me have your toughts.


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    #8
    Coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Coltrane


    Thanks for the link. I had seen this and similar conclusions previously, but couldn’t resist checking on here again, as I consider the climate situation to be very grave.

    Great that you had an inventive try at it, if only to conclude that it doesn’t yet work.

    Let’s see what - if anything - the new planning regs may bring.

    Don’t think the neighbours would appreciate the last (5kW) turbine of your three YouTube links!


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    #9
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    I'm considering something like this if it ever becomes available without planning permission as my new place is in a town but only 200m from the beach with a clear line of sight so nothing blocking any wind that may occur.

    I figure that by combining a small turbine with the existing heat pump, adding in some small PV panels that can be connected to the existing system as well as adding a decent battery storage solution, it could make for a pretty decent almost self sufficient power solution.

    The whole house is electric, no gas or oil for central heating and its got a BER rating of A2, so the only real power usage will be kitchen appliances and other personal electric devices.

    Does this sound like over kill or a possible viable solution?


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    #10
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    ................

    Does this sound like over kill or a possible viable solution?

    Works well, seen it done

    Few small turbines be lovely, easy to service


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    #11
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,764 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Works well, seen it done

    Few small turbines be lovely, easy to service

    I'm putting a decent metal shed in the back garden so could strap a turbine to that and place the battery storage in there. Would take a bit of work cabling wise but if planned properly it wouldn't be a huge amount of work.


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    #12
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2007/si/83/

    if you can comply with the conditions in above you dont need planning


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    #13
    slo007
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭slo007


    Could an item like this work in a residential environment? I accept 350 watts is not huge, but at least it could work day and night, all year long (unlike solar).

    Superwind 350-353


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    #14
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Just forget about a wind turbine in any kind of urban or semi urban area, a total waste of time. PV and batteries a far superior solution.


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    #15
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    air wrote: »
    Just forget about a wind turbine in any kind of urban or semi urban area, a total waste of time. PV and batteries a far superior solution.

    Good advice.
    Let me complete that with ... solar PVs AND solar tubes (rather than unknown nonmature improbable batteries).

    Solar tubes have a nice SEAI grant and guaranteed return and immediate satisfaction in terms of temperature,usability and ... pleasing all family members.

    Dont work in the industry,just practical feedback from past 4 years of using it.
    40 tubes,over 60 hot degreeeeess any day of the summer... full cylinder.

    https://www.vbus.net/scheme/3a2d0feae70e6ff873aaaf72aec7fea2


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    #16
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    rolion wrote: »
    Good advice.
    Let me complete that with ... solar PVs AND solar tubes (rather than unknown nonmature improbable batteries).

    Solar tubes have a nice SEAI grant and guaranteed return and immediate satisfaction in terms of temperature,usability and ... pleasing all family members.

    Dont work in the industry,just practical feedback from past 4 years of using it.
    40 tubes,over 60 hot degreeeeess any day of the summer... full cylinder.

    https://www.vbus.net/scheme/3a2d0feae70e6ff873aaaf72aec7fea2

    How many tubes do you have Rolion?


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    #17
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    Kaydence Modern Berry wrote: »
    How many tubes do you have Rolion?

    40 tubes for a 300l cylinder.
    They are not optimised due to compromise of the PV panels.


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    #18
    ggsolar ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭ggsolar ireland


    Coltrane wrote: »
    Has anyone come across a turbine that might work satisfactorily at the house/garden in Dublin, without needing planning permission?

    I’m fairly certain the answer’s no, but want to make sure that I’m doing what I can (period house, plenty of insulation and decent windows, A2W, EV, large PV-array, no battery).

    Payback not a primary consideration. Within reason, anything that I can do to help the environment will pass muster.

    Check out the attachment. Depending where you are you may need planning permission.the norm is 10m and under and planning permission is not required. Check pdf attached.


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    #19
    Coltrane
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Coltrane


    ggsolar ireland wrote: »
    Check out the attachment. Depending where you are you may need planning permission.the norm is 10m and under and planning permission is not required. Check pdf attached.

    Thanks. The paper’s almost nine years old but its conclusions look more or less current: Not practical in an urban garden.


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