Licensing conditions and the quagmire of ambiguity

JohnFitz2332 · 18-06-2019 4:08pm #1

Chaps,

I was told (in what I thought were no uncertain terms) that I was not being granted permission to have a moderator with my new rifle. The FO even said I could have a chat with the Super about it to see if an amendment (presumably in the form of a new license) could be made.

I should note that no refusal in writing was given.

Here I am. Shiny new license. But there's a pretty little 'S' right underneath the 'Firearm Certificate No: xxxxxxx'.

Anyone care to weigh in on whether I can take it that I am definitely allowed to own and possess a moderator?

I am reluctant to ask the Gardai about it in case they revoke the right to have the moderator.

solarwinds · 18-06-2019 4:34pm

I would say you are ok. If you ticked the box on your application and your licence has an S with no conditions then you got what you applied for.

juice1304 · 18-06-2019 4:37pm

I would never listen to any FO from my personal experience they have no idea what they are talking about in both relation to the super or firearms in general. You ticked the box you have the S on the licence so that is your permission. If you are in doubt call the firearms pokliy unit in the phoenix park. They will be able to tell you if it is logged as such in the pulse system and they have nothing to do with your local station. 01-666-1911

Cass · 18-06-2019 5:37pm

If it's a Black "S" under the cert number, as you described, then you have it.

J.R. · 18-06-2019 7:09pm

This is what the S looks like and its location

If you have one the same as this, in the same place, then I'd imagine you have been granted one.

Grizzly 45 · 19-06-2019 12:27pm

It's on your liscense.You are entitled to posses,if there is a screwup its on their heads not yours.Go get one and enjoy.
Moral.Dont ever take the Monkeys word for anything.Talk to the organ grinder.

JohnFitz2332 · 19-06-2019 8:58pm

Thank you for the responses everyone. It's just odd, because this FO (Roxboro, LK) is pretty competent from what I have hitherto seen. I wonder if, when I mentioned not getting a refusal in writing, they changed their mind to avoid an appeal/challenge...?

Wadi14 · 19-06-2019 9:41pm

Don't over think it, you applied for a moderator and the person responsible for making the decision on your application granted it.

Grizzly 45 · 19-06-2019 9:46pm

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Thank you for the responses everyone. It's just odd, because this FO (Roxboro, LK) is pretty competent from what I have hitherto seen. I wonder if, when I mentioned not getting a refusal in writing, they changed their mind to avoid an appeal/challenge...?

Quite possible.The neighbours in Henry St gave me the .22 with endorsement of use.Main thing is you now have it and thats 10/10th of the law.Go and enjoy.:)

eoin.d · 19-06-2019 9:51pm

Grizzly 45 wrote:

Quite possible.The neighbours in Henry St gave me the .22 with endorsement of use.Main thing is you now have it and thats 10/10th of the law.Go and enjoy.

Grizzly do you mind me asking what the endorsement of use was? I never heard of anything like that

oldgit1897 · 19-06-2019 9:54pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It's on your liscense.You are entitled to posses,if there is a screwup its on their heads not yours.Go get one and enjoy.
Moral.Dont ever take the Monkeys word for anything.Talk to the organ grinder.

Sorry to say, but that is incorrect, the onus is on you to make sure things are right. So when the guards are right they are right, and when they are wrong they are right.

BattleCorp · 19-06-2019 10:53pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It's on your liscense.You are entitled to posses,if there is a screwup its on their heads not yours.Go get one and enjoy.
Moral.Dont ever take the Monkeys word for anything.Talk to the organ grinder.

Sorry to say, but that is incorrect, the onus is on you to make sure things are right. So when the guards are right they are right, and when they are wrong they are right.

That applies if you have the wrong type of licence. As in if you have an unrestricted licence for a restricted firearm. But in this case, the correct permission was sought by ticking the box for silencer on the form and the correct licence was issued.

cookimonster · 19-06-2019 11:00pm

As above, the OP didn't get an offical refusal from the GS and it is not the 'FO' who makes the decision, he or she processes the application for the Super Intendant ultimate decision.

So if the licence came back from the printers with 's' on it then some one in the office ticked the box as per the OPs application.

Cass · 19-06-2019 11:03pm

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

I wonder if, when I mentioned not getting a refusal in writing, they changed their mind to avoid an appeal/challenge...?

Who knows, but the main thing is you have the "S" and hence the authorisation for it.

It cannot be done by mistake btw. To get the "S" on the license they need to manually input authorisation on PULSE otherwise it wouldn't be printed on the license.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy your new mod.

meathstevie · 20-06-2019 10:22am

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Sorry to say, but that is incorrect, the onus is on you to make sure things are right. So when the guards are right they are right, and when they are wrong they are right.

Looks pretty watertight to me. Applied in the correct manner and written evidence of being granted on the licence....

Grizzly 45 · 20-06-2019 10:45am

cookimonster wrote: »

As above, the OP didn't get an offical refusal from the GS and it is not the 'FO' who makes the decision, he or she processes the application for the Super Intendant ultimate decision.

So if the licence came back from the printers with 's' on it then some one in the office ticked the box as per the OPs application.

Precisely...So if they came back and said..."oops sorry the Super made a mistake,thats your fault,you are in possesion of an unlisensed silencer!" They would be laughed out the door of the court.Keeping paperwork in order works both ways Y'know. When you are issued somthing,you are living under the perfectly reasonable assumption that everything you did was correct and in order to be granted the privilidge of owning an item,or doing somthing.So if he has the S on the liscense it means he did everything correct and the super is happy with it.He[The supt] cant turn around now and say he has no good reason not to have it because I changed my mind/wasnt paying attention/missed somthing.Without opening a new tin of wrms.

Grizzly 45 · 20-06-2019 10:56am

eoin.d wrote: »

Grizzly do you mind me asking what the endorsement of use was? I never heard of anything like that

That I can only use it on my own property or on a range.[Strange,as I have a 308 silencer I can use anywhere].His reasoning was that he considerd it with the usual nonsense reasoning,that using it outside those enviroments would be too much of a danger to walkers,hikers etc ,if I used it on my deer let,and thatI would have more knowledge and control as to who enters my private property.
Despite the fact mydeer let is a huge valley that works as an echo chamber,and you have no clue as to where the shot might come from be it unsilenced or suppressed....But that was his logic...Go figure.:P

eoin.d · 20-06-2019 12:05pm

Grizzly 45 wrote:

That I can only use it on my own property or on a range.[Strange,as I have a 308 silencer I can use anywhere].His reasoning was that he considerd it with the usual nonsense reasoning,that using it outside those enviroments would be too much of a danger to walkers,hikers etc ,if I used it on my deer let,and thatI would have more knowledge and control as to who enters my private property. Despite the fact mydeer let is a huge valley that works as an echo chamber,and you have no clue as to where the shot might come from be it unsilenced or suppressed....But that was his logic...Go figure.

Unbelievable stuff they can come out with

tac foley · 20-06-2019 4:14pm

As if you are going be taking a shot with 'walkers, hikers' in the vicinity. These people must be total dwongs, at the very least.

Kramer · 22-06-2019 12:24am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But that was his logic...Go figure.:P

Smart enough reasoning

.

Grizzly 45 · 22-06-2019 1:28am

How so?? If you read my post describing my let,it is an echo chamber in a valley.The shot noise is thrown at least twice off the whole area,so it almost sounsd panoramic.You have no idea where the shot might be coming from.As the farmers up there have herds of cattle and horses,that kind of noise could panic them into some hidden ravines where streams have cut into the hillsides to in one case a 30 foot drop I have a 308 silencer for use up there as well.A Hell of a lot more dangerous if misused than a .22 in that situation...So maybe explain the sound logic in this???

Grizzly 45 · 22-06-2019 1:34am

tac foley wrote: »

As if you are going be taking a shot with 'walkers, hikers' in the vicinity. These people must be total dwongs, at the very least.

Especially that if you did shoot in this valley the shot noise echos all over the place and you have no idea where it is coming from.I discoverd recently it was an old Irish army firing range area in WW2.It's ideal for that,as you could reach out to over 1000 yards no problem and the backstops are about 500 foot high and about 2miles thick.It's just that echo that shut it down as a range after ww2 as well.Plus you do have a fine oversight of anyone entering the valley from both ends,and it is a tad hard to mistake them for deer as well.

Emmersonn · 22-06-2019 7:11am

I applied for and received the Magical "S" on my licence this renewal. It came with the condition that when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator. Using a phone to inform them is acceptable.

The pigeon man · 22-06-2019 8:30am

Emmersonn wrote: »

I applied for and received the Magical "S" on my licence this renewal. It came with the condition that when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator. Using a phone to inform them is acceptable.

Such a condition is nearly impossible to comply with. It's pure nonsense.

Cadpat_cowboy · 22-06-2019 10:28am

The pigeon man wrote: »

Such a condition is nearly impossible to comply with. It's pure nonsense.

I wonder if a small sign on the gate of the feild say shooting using with a silencer/moderater/suppressor similar to a planing permission sing would doðŸ˜‚

Kramer · 22-06-2019 12:02pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How so??

Ah Grizz, you didn't get it..........

Kramer wrote: »

Smart enough reasoning .

You have to get it, surely

.

Kramer · 22-06-2019 12:06pm

Emmersonn wrote: »

when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator.

Wow, that's onerous - I wouldn't be accepting that condition.

Grizzly 45 · 22-06-2019 1:16pm

Kramer wrote: »

Ah Grizz, you didn't get it..........

You have to get it, surely .

OK...OK....Wise guy!:) Where you been hiding out?Havent seen you here in ages?:)

Grizzly 45 · 22-06-2019 1:19pm

Emmersonn wrote: »

I applied for and received the Magical "S" on my licence this renewal. It came with the condition that when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator. Using a phone to inform them is acceptable.

I'm really sure everyone in your hunting area must be happy to get a phone call at zero dark hundred on a weekend morning to be informed,that you are going hunting with your silencer/suppressor???:rolleyes:

oldgit1897 · 24-06-2019 11:34pm

Emmersonn wrote: »

I applied for and received the Magical "S" on my licence this renewal. It came with the condition that when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator. Using a phone to inform them is acceptable.

I think common sense is officially dead and buried in this country :rolleyes:

tac foley · 25-06-2019 9:41am

Emmersonn wrote: »

I applied for and received the Magical "S" on my licence this renewal. It came with the condition that when I wish to use the moderator that I inform anyone within 1000mts of where I propose to shoot that I am using the moderator. Using a phone to inform them is acceptable.

So basically, you are telling them not to overly concern themselves about the noise that they can't hear?

Makes good sense, of course.

To the inmates of St Brendan's.

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Licensing conditions and the quagmire of ambiguity

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