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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

  • 15-06-2019 8:43am
    #1
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭


    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.


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Comments

  • #2
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    As mad as any party, but maybe looking after the planet is a good idea, future generations might appreciate it, but I'm not convinced carbon taxes is the way to go though, but of course I could be wrong


  • #3
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    cutelad wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.
    Why would they "tax the hilt out of us"?


  • #4
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions. In that context, the Green Party would be mad not to go into government in the near future, given the time lag between policy decisions and implementation.

    Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.


  • #5
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    cutelad wrote: »
    I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.
    Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?


  • #6
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

    imo, its not, but it wont be easy to resolve these issues, people do need to make a living. its clearly obvious that radical changes are required to protect our planet, but the complex operations of our modern economic systems wont make this an easy one to resolve


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  • #7
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yes but the OP is giving out about the possibility of the Greens getting into government but it's mainly the OPs choices i.e. long commute because of their job and their home choices


  • #8
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Seth Brundle wrote:
    Yes but the OP is giving out about the possibility of the Greens getting into government but it's mainly the OPs choices i.e. long commute because of their job and their home choices

    Funnily enough, you ll find, we don't live in a perfect world, where we truly have complete control of where we live and work, again, solving our environmental problems isn't gonna be easy for many reasons, including these ones. The approach of 'personal responsibility' has severe limitations in this regard, but that's not to say we should all personally ignore our own responsibilities in helping solve these issues.


  • #9
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,414 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Its a complete waste of time.
    A little country like Ireland wouldn't even make a dent in global emissions.
    As long as the US/China/India and other developing nations continue to pollute the planet its basically a losing battle.
    Its going to basically take a catastrophic event before we get our act together.


  • #10
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Blazer wrote:
    Its a complete waste of time. A little country like Ireland wouldn't even make a dent in global emissions. As long as the US/China/India and other developing nations continue to pollute the planet its basically a losing battle. Its going to basically take a catastrophic event before we get our act together.


    So let's do nothing?


  • #11
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    So let's do nothing?

    Kind of. Have you seen the "keep it in the ground" campaign to ban oil and gas exploration round Ireland?

    We're going to virtue signal by banning exploration and then keep importing and using oil and gas from abroad. :D


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  • #12
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Kind of. Have you seen the "keep it in the ground" campaign to ban oil and gas exploration round Ireland?

    We're going to virtue signal by banning exploration and then keep importing and using oil and gas from abroad. :D

    thats rather progressive isnt it, kind of, do nothing! by any chance would that have any negative effects on our environment?

    keep it in the ground, kinna makes sense, if we start doing it, and other countries to, maybe we can start changing things for the better? maybe it would force us all to move towards alternative energy sources? :confused:


  • #13
    jcd5971
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    Macha wrote:
    Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

    Seth Brundle wrote:
    Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

    I live in West of Ireland, the only option is to drive, there is not even public transport routes, therefore I have to drive 45 mins each way everyday.

    A diesel is the most cost efficient method to do this so that's what I do, and its not a fancy hybrid it's an old dirty smoky diesel.

    whilst I'm aware that I'm doing damage to the environment, I have not been provided with a financially viable alternative and therefore, I continue to operate as I do, because the sad fact is that like the majority of the people in this country I don't care enough about climate change and bio diversity to change.

    The greens will never be the primary party, be realistic even if this local elections performance translates to the next election, the best they can hope for is to be the junior party, the most likely outcome is finna fail/fine Gael coalition continuing and paying token heed to environment.


    Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.


  • #14
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

    What about the costs and unconvince in the near future from not making some changes now?


  • #15
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    jcd5971 wrote: »

    Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

    The selfish will always be selfish. The same ilk who had a problem with the smoking ban and the charge on plastic bags. Government policies shouldn't be dictated by those who are happy to destroy the common good


  • #16
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

    In an EV yes. We actually need more focus on what can be easily addressed.


  • #17
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    As mad as any party, but maybe looking after the planet is a good idea, future generations might appreciate it, but I'm not convinced carbon taxes is the way to go though, but of course I could be wrong

    If they curb their out and out zealotry they'd be no different to any of the other putative government parties. While there is unquestionably a sense of urgency on climate change their focus is far too black and white in some areas to sell to people. Much higher taxes alone would not fly at all and they could be out of government as quickly as they got in.


  • #18
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    cutelad wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

    No. But in mid 2019 any political party who's policies are not framed by green ones is mad, ignorant, stupid (or bought).


  • #19
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    demfad wrote: »
    No. But in mid 2019 any political party who's policies are not framed by green ones is mad, ignorant, stupid (or bought).
    The challenge for the Greens is to continue to stand out. The likes of FF & FG can just attach green policies to negate them.


  • #20
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    The bottom line is people like turkeys won't vote for xmas. Yes the greens got a few more votes at the last time of asking but it was what 8% of the overall, hardly a green wave is it?


  • #21
    jcd5971
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    Grudaire wrote:
    What about the costs and unconvince in the near future from not making some changes now?


    So what is my alternative, its easy to say just change, but how what's your actual alternative to a 45 minute commute?

    And that's not a snarky reply, what is the actual solution?
    No public transport so that's out.

    Get a hybrid, realistically not happening cost is too prohibitive.

    Its easy say change with no actual solutions its just idle chatter and nothing actually changes


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  • #22
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    cutelad wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

    I used to vote Green but I thought the decision to go into government with FF was a bad one and they came badly out of it. Did some good things, but say the removal of bedsitters from Dublin etc without sufficient alternatives being put in place was downright reckless and a contributory part to the current housing problems there. Likewise the incentives to buy diesel cars just fueled the pockets of the car dealers. An elderly neighbour here had a perfectly good but older petrol car which became increasingly expensive to tax & insure - scrapped and a new diesel bought.

    The Greens have changed, they used to be a party that opposed environmental destruction by say mining.. but now they support environmental destruction with policies to construct industrial scale wind farms. The Greens used to be about making do with less - reduce, reuse, recycle.. but now they want us to buy electric cars. More churning of the market, more waste of resources.

    The future of life according to the Greens here is city living and everything powered by electricity. But little or no care or thought into how all this electricity will be supplied and the environmental consequences of same.


  • #23
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    cutelad wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

    Can they be any worse than FFG?

    We've got about a decade to provide a future for our children. It's clear FFG have no credentials in this regard.


  • #24
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    The bottom line is people like turkeys won't vote for xmas. Yes the greens got a few more votes at the last time of asking but it was what 8% of the overall, hardly a green wave is it?

    The Green party in Germany has been the largest party in polling for the last 3 polls in a row at 27%. That is very significant. We are coming from a smaller base being a (traditionally) more conservative country. But the direction is clear.


  • #25
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    cutelad wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

    You do realise it’s not the greens who will tax the hilt out of us

    If we don’t meet our CO2 targets then we will be buying CO2 credits at stupid money so whichever party is in power is going to have to pay those fines, how will they generate that money? Tax of course

    If Ireland met our targets and went below them we could actually sell our credits at stupid money to other people
    Ireland is one of the smallest land masses in Europe and we have the one of the Hughes percentage of diesel cars.....a 40 mile commute is tiny!!!


  • #26
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    I used to vote Green but I thought the decision to go into government with FF was a bad one and they came badly out of it. Did some good things, but say the removal of bedsitters from Dublin etc without sufficient alternatives being put in place was downright reckless and a contributory part to the current housing problems there. Likewise the incentives to buy diesel cars just fueled the pockets of the car dealers. An elderly neighbour here had a perfectly good but older petrol car which became increasingly expensive to tax & insure - scrapped and a new diesel bought.

    The Greens have changed, they used to be a party that opposed environmental destruction by say mining.. but now they support environmental destruction with policies to construct industrial scale wind farms. The Greens used to be about making do with less - reduce, reuse, recycle.. but now they want us to buy electric cars. More churning of the market, more waste of resources.

    The future of life according to the Greens here is city living and everything powered by electricity. But little or no care or thought into how all this electricity will be supplied and the environmental consequences of same.

    I am not a green supporter. However, I find it mighty unlikely that those policies that you have outlined are actual green policies.

    For example switching to electric cars make sense if the electricity comes from renewable sources. Reducing the cost of public transport also makes sense.
    Reducing the average journey between workplace and commuter makes sense.
    A high quality data network meaning that an ever increasing volume of work does not have to be completed at the place of work.
    This reduces over all construction etc.
    That's just a few policies around transport.
    Everyone should be up to date on these issues. It's the one issue where our positions must be grounded in reality


  • #27
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Green parties are usually big city hipsters and generally clueless about the real-world nation-wide implications of their ill-thought-out "politics".

    I used to vote Green but then I started looking into their politics beyond the lazy attitude I had that "sure, they probably good for the planet" and left.


    Parties like this are usually leftists and will be hijacked by socialists sooner or later.

    From greenparty.ie
    The Green Party is a progressive political party focused on social justice, democracy and protection of the environment.
    Only one thing here is green, the rest is leftist mumbo jumbo..


  • #28
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    If ppl have been paying there are some very worrying signs this year regarding climate change

    For example.


  • #29
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Why would they "tax the hilt out of us"?

    We'll they are hardly going tax the rich are they ? Wouldn't go down too well in their comfortable leafy suburbs.

    It's all about passing the burden of carbon taxes onto those who can least afford them, i.e. the ordinary working person. As usual the rich and the social welfare classes will be looked after.


  • #30
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    I live in West of Ireland, the only option is to drive, there is not even public transport routes, therefore I have to drive 45 mins each way everyday.

    A diesel is the most cost efficient method to do this so that's what I do, and its not a fancy hybrid it's an old dirty smoky diesel.

    whilst I'm aware that I'm doing damage to the environment, I have not been provided with a financially viable alternative and therefore, I continue to operate as I do, because the sad fact is that like the majority of the people in this country I don't care enough about climate change and bio diversity to change.

    The greens will never be the primary party, be realistic even if this local elections performance translates to the next election, the best they can hope for is to be the junior party, the most likely outcome is finna fail/fine Gael coalition continuing and paying token heed to environment.


    Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

    diesel is not the most efficient....unless you are driving 500km a day or similar mileage

    It’s also not the most cost effective....


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  • #31
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taxpayers-could-face-carbon-emissions-bill-of-7bn-930992.html

    Just to confirm what I posted above, 7bn....how efficient is your smoky diesel now


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