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Any casual fans turned off by the amount of non knockout games these days?

  • 11-06-2019 9:34pm
    #1
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭


    I think the changes in football and hurling are good overall for the players and the dedicated fans. More games to play / go to at a high level.


    As a more casual fan though, I do find myself zoning out more and more of the championships. With the provincial championships so devalued, the business end of the season doesn't start until quite near the end now.


    For football, that's now after the super 8s. I've no idea who thought it was a good idea to have another league format after the provincial championships!
    I had more of an interest in the Munster championship when it was straight knockout games. The new format leads to decent games but you're still waiting for the business end of the season.


    I'd question the overall appetite for this number of games. The dedicated fans will always turn up but wonder if crowds will trend lower and lower over time.


Comments

  • #2
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Between the back door and super 8s you can now lose two matches and still win an AI. That doesn’t sit right with me. The super 8s doesn’t work for me as the last games are always going to run a big risk of being a free hit and the early games could well see teams think ah sure it’s gone but we can forget this game and play well next week whilst the game is still on.


  • #3
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Teams can now lose 3 times and win their respective championship.


  • #4
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,323 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Whatever about the merits of the OP, there are a massive amount of knockout championship games on, but they are not on the Hurling Channel, I mean RTE...... Only a few minutes from all the games last weekend for instance.
    Meanwhile, a non stop procession of meaningless, one sided hurling games.


  • #5
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    100% agree OP

    I've found it tough at times to properly get into the championship this year. Much more-so than the older format

    On another note are there even many senior club championships out there that follow a knockout format anymore (even with back door included)?

    Dublin and Galway football championships are two high profile ones that I know of that have recently changed to a group format. It seems everything now is migrating to a format with much more matches for each side, but in turn leads to a convoluted and often more boring format for the neutral

    The Galway hurling championship for one has almost become farcical. 6 teams per group, teams can even lose their first 3 games and still qualify. Doesn't get going at all until the penultimate round of the group, if even


  • #6
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    I think the Super 8s is a load of ****e tbh no edge as it's not knockout. Don't care for the hurling round robin either but I'm not a hurling fan really.


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  • #7
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    The fact that you get bigger crowds for provincial championship games than similar qualifier games would suggest people aren’t that bothered by whether it’s a knockout game. Overall most people and players want to see their teams playing more games in the summer


  • #8
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    With the Super 8s at least there's only 4 teams in group, so the first game will at least have an edge to it

    With 5 teams in hurling you could conceivably lose 3 and qualify. There is basically zero at stake in the first game

    I wonder are we far away from teams actually putting out second strings in some matches for tactical purposes and only targeting a couple of wins to get 3rd


  • #9
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    harpsman wrote: »
    The fact that you get bigger crowds for provincial championship games than similar qualifier games would suggest people aren’t that bothered by whether it’s a knockout game. Overall most people and players want to see their teams playing more games in the summer
    The provincial football games are knockout in a way if you want to win the province. My own county would have much more interest in the Ulster Champ than the qualifiers. The fans or the players wouldn't care much about the qualifiers, we aren't going to win or challenge for the All Ireland, Dublin have it won.

    Be interested to see what the hurling fans think of the round robin this years hasn't been that great at all. But sure the GAA are changing the format again supposedly so who knows.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Fans being interested in games that aren't knock out?
    It will never work... wait what's the Pro 14, Premier League, NBA, AFL etc


  • #11
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    Fans being interested in games that aren't knock out?
    It will never work... wait what's the Pro 14, Premier League, NBA, AFL etc

    What an example!

    Has to be perhaps the most boring league on the planet


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  • #12
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    Fans being interested in games that aren't knock out?
    It will never work... wait what's the Pro 14, Premier League, NBA, AFL etc
    Even Rugby fans don't give a toss about Pro 14. This is meant to be championship knockout we already have a League.


  • #13
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    I like it. For the hurling it is actually more knock-out than with the back door system.
    Losing your first game makes things quite hard now whereas in the past bar you were very unlucky you got plenty of time to recover in the qualifiers.
    Last year in Munster was a brilliant championship although as a Tipp fan it was a very long time to not see your county in action going out so early.
    This years version is fairly poor due to Clare and Waterford being fairly dreadful.
    I think the novelty of it will wear out however, playing the same 4 teams year after year and the possibility of having to play a team 3 times in the championship, so I would much prefer and open draw.
    Enjoyed the football last year from Super 8s on. Was as interesting as it could have been given the inevitability of the final outcome of the championship, however the early rounds bar the odd exception is just dross. Dublin badly need to be beaten to give a shot in the arm to the football championship.


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    jr86 wrote: »
    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    Fans being interested in games that aren't knock out?
    It will never work... wait what's the Pro 14, Premier League, NBA, AFL etc

    What an example!

    Has to be perhaps the most boring league on the planet

    Just because you find it boring doesn't mean everyone else does.

    The point was just about every main stream sport runs a league as their competition.
    Some throw in later KO after league qualification.

    This notion that GAA players should slave away training for months and to receive a paltry 1-5 games is absurd.
    If you've no interest in the sport because someone isnt falling on their sword then you probably don't have a huge interest to begin with IMO.


  • #15
    puzl
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭puzl


    I'm a hurling fanatic and I think I prefer the old system. We have one more year of it before they have to vote on it again. My main problem with it is how compressed the calendar is. There's a whole bunch of stuff in May/June and then the provincial finals through to All Ireland final is around 6 weeks. That's crazy.. Also, having the leinster final and munster final on the same day is terrible.. really terrible IMO. Both of those occasions deserve to be marquee events on dedicated days.

    And dead rubber games are just bizarre and should not be possible IMO. The old system was spectacularly brilliant and thrilled us all summer long from early may right through to september with ample time for build up for each game.

    I fully support the stated goal of helping club players.. but has it really? If you are a non inter-county club player you had to be fit for a round or two in April, and then maintain your fitness all year long playing a handful of low priority league matches while waiting for the county team lads to return.. and did any county really finish up their county championships significantly earlier?

    I'm really trying to keep an open mind and embrace the new system, and one more year should give us better insights, but already I'm longing for and end to the round robins and a return to the old system.


  • #16
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    Just because you find it boring doesn't mean everyone else does.

    Ha - its inundated with paltry attendances, basically every rugby fan I know thinks its a mess. The Rugby Forum on this site is even full of criticism of it


  • #17
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    The problems with huge differences in population and abilities means it will take a lot of tinkering to get a championship that is interesting but also pleases the big and small teams.

    The hurling round robin was brought in as a response to the football super8s. Personally I think its working well. It gives players and supporters a number of days out, rather than 2 at most for some counties.

    Many footballers put their life on hold and put everything into the championship. That they are knocked out year after year after 2 or 3 games must be hard to take and its no wonder many from weaker counties opt out, creating a situation where the weak get weaker and the strong get stronger.


  • #18
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    C__MC wrote: »
    Teams can now lose 3 times and win their respective championship.

    That would be nigh on impossible in football anyway and even if, so what?


  • #19
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,336 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    the compressed season is also very hard on county players
    lot of games in a short space of time

    the league is different as its played during the spring when pitches are softer and teams are not fully up to speed


  • #20
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    theoneeyedman wrote: »
    Whatever about the merits of the OP, there are a massive amount of knockout championship games on, but they are not on the Hurling Channel, I mean RTE...... Only a few minutes from all the games last weekend for instance.
    Meanwhile, a non stop procession of meaningless, one sided hurling games.

    Meaningless to who? Why do fans of one code always feel the need to have a dig at the other? Even those clowns Spillane and Daly are at it now, fecking patethic.
    jr86 wrote: »

    With 5 teams in hurling you could conceivably lose 3 and qualify. There is basically zero at stake in the first game

    It would take some set of freak results for a team with 2 pts to qualify, wont ever happen. Lose your first match and you are seriously up against the wall, saying there is noting at stake is simply not true.


  • #21
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Pogue eile wrote: »

    It would take some set of freak results for a team with 2 pts to qualify, wont ever happen. Lose your first match and you are seriously up against the wall, saying there is noting at stake is simply not true.

    I should have said fail to win 3

    All of Galway (first proper match lets be honest), Wexford, Dublin, Cork and Limerick failed to win their first match this year and all can still qualify going into the final round - 3 of the above are guaranteed to qualify, and Cork extremely likely also


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  • #22
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Mathematical possibility of a team losing three times in senior championship and winning AI is minimal.

    However, in Leinster minor hurling, it is possible for a tier one team to be beaten three times in Leinster and once in AI group stage and still win the AI.

    A team could lose two of their three group games, once there was another team that lost all three below them; then win their qualifier and semi final but get beaten in the Leinster final; then lose one of their games in the AI group stages, but still qualify for the semi finals, and then win that and the final!

    Which would mean a team could have a record of W 6 : L 4 and win a championship. Another team could conceivably win 5 of 6 games, or 6 of 7 and get beaten in the final.

    Which is a bit mad Ted.


  • #23
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    Fans being interested in games that aren't knock out?
    It will never work... wait what's the Pro 14, Premier League, NBA, AFL etc


    That was kind of my point.
    Historically, GAA has had the league over the winter and Championship in the summer. Championship for decades was straight knockout games. My question was whether there is enough interest in GAA from casual fans for a league type Championship or will crowds continue to decline to just the dedicated fans.


    It's seen today like someone mentioned in there being more interest in the provincial games over the qualifier games. Provincial games at least can draw on the tradition of a provincial championship, qualifier games seem to be largely ignored.


  • #24
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    vetinari wrote: »
    That was kind of my point.
    Historically, GAA has had the league over the winter and Championship in the summer. Championship for decades was straight knockout games. My question was whether there is enough interest in GAA from casual fans for a league type Championship or will crowds continue to decline to just the dedicated fans.


    It's seen today like someone mentioned in there being more interest in the provincial games over the qualifier games. Provincial games at least can draw on the tradition of a provincial championship, qualifier games seem to be largely ignored.

    I think yes , summer league format will get crowds but whether they will support a summer AND winter league I don’t know


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