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Is this the beginning of the end for Tesla - Mercedes EQC

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  • 15-05-2019 6:02pm
    #1
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭


    With the arrival of the big car makers is this the beginning of the end of Tesla.
    With a premium interior and all the usual EV tech along with a premium brand why would you choose Tesla now the big boys are in the game.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUEDCT4oQM&t=750s

    Interesting review of the new Mercedes EQC


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Comments

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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I’ve been in all the big brands.
    The best so far was the Audi Jeep. But I haven’t driven it so no idea what it’s like on the roads.

    Tesla has improved big time. I had the 100d this year and the interior quality is way ahead of what it used to be, but at the end of the day, it’s a 100k car so it should reflect that.

    I feel that bmw, Merc, Audi will have striking interiors in the future on their EV’s (currently they are no better than any other car) but will tesla have the better tech?

    It’s hard to argue against the tech inside a Tesla currently.


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    #3
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Tesla are 10-15 years ahead of the competition, whether that has can be closed remains to be seen.
    The E-tron looks great but a monumental 'gas guzzler'.


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    #4
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    JPA wrote: »
    Tesla are 10-15 years ahead of the competition, whether that has can be closed remains to be seen.
    The E-tron looks great but a monumental 'gas guzzler'.

    Would love to understand how they are 10-15 years ahead of the competition I can't see how they are. Perhaps in their charging network what else am I missing.


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    #5
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Well, they're ahead in some areas and not in others. The likes of Mercedes or any of the traditional car makers have a huge advantage in the sense that they can mass produce high quality, highly design driven complex vehicles. Adding an electric drive train is complicated, but it's less of a hurdle than trying to tool up from scratch to produce cars.

    I strongly suspect the likely future for Tesla is that they'll get into financial issues and be bought out by a traditional car company. Nobody's going to buy them while the hype is still there though.


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    #6
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    The “big boys” won’t matter until they deliver in volume. That remains to be seen.

    And there always seems to be the idea that once the big boys have a car that that means Tesla are then dead. No reason why both won’t continue to coexist long term.


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    #7
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    Anteayer wrote: »
    Well, they're ahead in some areas and not in others. The likes of Mercedes or any of the traditional car makers have a huge advantage in the sense that they can mass produce high quality, highly design driven complex vehicles. Adding an electric drive train is complicated, but it's less of a hurdle than trying to tool up from scratch to produce cars.

    I strongly suspect the likely future for Tesla is that they'll get into financial issues and be bought out by a traditional car company. Nobody's going to buy them while the hype is still there though.

    I think you hit the nail on the head right there.


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    #8
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    They are what ??

    E-Pace vs model X

    E-Pace is 10 to 15 years behind ??


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    #9
    mrbongo
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭mrbongo


    JPA wrote: »
    Tesla are 10-15 years ahead of the competition.

    Fantastic. Company who produced their first car 11 years ago is up to 15 years ahead of the competition! :eek: :)


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    #10
    jusmeig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    No, it's not.


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    #11
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    JPA wrote: »
    Tesla are 10-15 years ahead of the competition, whether that has can be closed remains to be seen.
    The E-tron looks great but a monumental 'gas guzzler'.

    They seem great for tech but unable to put a car together.


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    #12
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JPA wrote: »
    Tesla are 10-15 years ahead of the competition, whether that has can be closed remains to be seen.
    The E-tron looks great but a monumental 'gas guzzler'.


    Tesla are not ahead....they are behind Nio

    Do you buy a Q5 or a Q7 because they are good on diesel?

    So why would you expect the electric version to be good on electricity?

    The eTron is bought for comfort and quality, not because it will do better kWh/100km.

    What exactly is this tech which is 10-15 years ahead?


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    #13
    scooby77
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭scooby77


    VAG as a whole will put it up to Tesla across the board in maybe next 3-5 years. It's possible after that there might be a Chinese influx which would be a sea change...they really on top of the EV game ( as opposed to ICE)

    Though Geely will be sooner through their Volvo/ Polestar brands!

    PS I've a feeling Toyota might be a pure EV force within maybe 10 years. Cant see them staying on sidelines!


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    #14
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    the build quality of the tesla and the interior materials are just way behind the europeans. I wouldnt be surprised if tesla just became the cummins of electric power trains and let the big boys just buy / licence their technology and the cars get pumped out without elon being near the styling, manufacturing or quality control.


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    #15
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Tesla are not ahead....they are behind Nio

    Do you buy a Q5 or a Q7 because they are good on diesel?

    So why would you expect the electric version to be good on electricity?

    The eTron is bought for comfort and quality, not because it will do better kWh/100km.

    What exactly is this tech which is 10-15 years ahead?

    Auto Pilot, FSD, Super Charger network.

    Neo is not out, still somewhat unknown. It's also IMO not in competition with Tesla as it's in a different class.


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    #16
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,774 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Great to see some competition finally from the German giants (albeit at the higher end of the market for now. Where the hell is BMW?). From a few glimpses of the review, it looks like the Mercedes EQC is brutally inefficient, just like the Audi eTron before it. Inefficiency itself is not so much of an issue itself, but it means that the range at motorway speeds is far from adequate. I guess pretty bad aerodynamics are at play here.


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    #17
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    JPA wrote: »
    Auto Pilot, FSD, Super Charger network.

    Neo is not out, still somewhat unknown. It's also IMO not in competition with Tesla as it's in a different class.

    Tesla or no other manufacturer has FSD. And anything less than level 4 is not safe, if the driver has to respond in emergency its too late already.

    It won't take a manufacturer like VAG or PSA long to roll out a fast network with their dealer network.

    One thing that Tesla is way behind on is warranty and spares. Unless they fix this then the other manufacturers who have a massive dealer network will destroy them. Tesla are still getting 1st adapters so they will put up with some issues, if they want to go mainstream they need to massively up their game


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    #18
    scooby77
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭scooby77


    Del2005 wrote: »

    It won't take a manufacturer like VAG or PSA long to roll out a fast network with their dealer network.

    One thing that Tesla is way behind on is warranty and spares. Unless they fix this then the other manufacturers who have a massive dealer network will destroy them.

    Agreed. Polestar, for example, have reportedly changed their mind and now decided to piggyback on the existing Volvo dealer network. Their original plan was for limited, stand alone "Spaces "
    Joe public, myself included, wants/ needs the security of relatively local dealer backup.


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    #19
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,774 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Tesla or no other manufacturer has FSD.

    You could argue with that. The Mercedes EQC or the Audi eTron you buy today will never ever have FSD. They will be forever stuck at autonomous driving level 2, just like my 2016 model year €25k Hyundai Ioniq. The hardware simply isn't there and will not be retro fitted in future

    The Teslas however have all the hardware required for FSD right now. Software updates are sent OTA. Maybe not this year, but it is very well possible that in the next few years a Tesla bought today will be have FSD. Have a look at the FSD demo (beta software) that's already at autonomous driving level 4 today

    That's the big difference


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    #20
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JPA wrote: »
    Auto Pilot, FSD, Super Charger network.

    Neo is not out, still somewhat unknown. It's also IMO not in competition with Tesla as it's in a different class.

    https://www.nio.com/

    I suggest before making statement about Tesla you know what the competition are at


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    #21
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    unkel wrote: »
    You could argue with that. The Mercedes EQC or the Audi eTron you buy today will never ever have FSD. They will be forever stuck at autonomous driving level 2, just like my 2016 model year €25k Hyundai Ioniq. The hardware simply isn't there and will not be retro fitted in future

    The Teslas however have all the hardware required for FSD right now. Software updates are sent OTA. Maybe not this year, but it is very well possible that in the next few years a Tesla bought today will be have FSD. Have a look at the FSD demo (beta software) that's already at autonomous driving level 4 today

    That's the big difference

    FSD will only be on motorways or high quality trunk routes, which we already have. Nobody will not be driving their own car anywhere else unless they massively change the law to prioritise cars in urban areas and they will never do that again.


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    #22
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,758 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    https://www.nio.com/

    I suggest before making statement about Tesla you know what the competition are at

    How on earth do you consider nio ahead of Tesla in the world of EVs?


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    #23
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Sure they could kill Tesla anytime, we all know that

    They won't for a long time yet

    Autogiants make compliance electric cars to avoid regulatory fines

    They'll continue to sell as many ICE vehicles as possible on the back of electric side show cars for years to come, keep that gravy train going, shareholders happy, expenses down

    All of them are up to eye balls in debt, they can't afford to just drop ICE and go after Tesla, if they could they would have done it already

    Do ye honestly think VW or Daimler couldn't have crushed Tesla up to now lol 😂

    They don't give a **** about Tesla, they are happy as they are

    If it wasn't for pesky Chinese/European/US emmision regulatory fines/laws they would be much happier

    They'll crush Tesla when Governments make them, no sooner


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    #24
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    JPA wrote: »
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    https://www.nio.com/

    I suggest before making statement about Tesla you know what the competition are at

    How on earth do you consider nio ahead of Tesla in the world of EVs?

    He read a few things and an expert on Nio now,m

    Nio shares are on the floor now so he should really buy if he's so knowledgeable on them

    Have looked at them myself but must read a bit more before buying a few, do look promising from what I have read, like Tesla they burn through cash


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    #25
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Tesla are like Apple was shortly after the release of the first iPhone. Great tech in a product competing against the established players like Nokia and Ericsson. (Where are they now?)

    Roll on more than a decade and Apple still has over 15% market share, despite stiff competition from Samsung and others. Apple is still probably the most desirable phone brand.

    Tesla's position is similar to Apple's and I can't see that changing any time soon.


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    #26
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Looks class from the car wow review

    How much will it be here?


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    #27
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JPA wrote: »
    How on earth do you consider nio ahead of Tesla in the world of EVs?

    Seeing as you have no idea who they are, how do you know they are not?

    AI In car, battery swap technology, battery upgrade, E1 racing, are only some of the things Nio have mastered and brought to market....

    If Nio was an American company I wonder how much the news would be full of them

    I’m no expert on Nio, just tracked progress over last few years....hopefully the product will make it to Europe

    Only one expert on this forum, seems to be an expert for electric cars, financial viability of car manufacturers, battery cost, battery degradation, share prices, stock exchange....


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    #28
    BKtje
    Registered Users Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭BKtje


    unkel wrote: »
    I guess pretty bad aerodynamics are at play here.

    Drive train efficiency and weight differences also play a huge part i'd say. The Merc I think is 2400kg while a model 3 is 1600kg.

    The merc certainly looks very premium which is to be expected.


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    #29
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Tesla are like Apple was shortly after the release of the first iPhone. Great tech in a product competing against the established players like Nokia and Ericsson. (Where are they now?)

    Roll on more than a decade and Apple still has over 15% market share, despite stiff competition from Samsung and others. Apple is still probably the most desirable phone brand.

    Tesla's position is similar to Apple's and I can't see that changing any time soon.

    Nokia and Ericsson went back to their core business : network infrastructure. It's actually a very, very different sector. Ericsson has been around for over a hundred years and is hugely dominant in telecoms infrastructure. You've been making calls on Ericsson switching equipment all your life and so was your granny in the 1950s. Nokia absorbed Alcatel which included Bell Labs.

    Both companies are anything but 'gone'.

    The problem was neither were consumer product companies by origin and when the technology shifted to basically being a mobile touch screen computer, two old infrastructure companies didn't have the knowledge of user interfaces and computer technology to compete and the emphasis for handsets shifted to Silicon Valley.

    Other than it contains the word phone and can make calls, a smart phone is not primarily a phone. It's very advanced computer. An iPhone has everything in common with a Mac and almost nothing in common with a Nokia 5110. It would be like comparing a PC to a 1990s VCR. They can both record television programmes but they've nothing in common beyond that one function.

    In the car industry the older players are finely honed consumer oriented manufacturing outfits that are extremely good at what they do and the shift of technology is only the drive train. The fundamental of design, manufacturing, supply chain and marketing haven't changed.

    Tesla would have had to have made a breakthrough like flying cars that had some element of teleportation to be compared to the dawn of the smartphone Vs the telephone.


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    #30
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This headline is nonsensical.
    The amount of doom sayers (dare I say, shorts) around here is ridiculous.
    You know who you are and you should be ashamed. Without Tesla there would be no mainstream EVs. And there isnt anything out there that matches Tesla now.


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    #31
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    It's an innovative company in terms of marketing EVs, but that doesn't change the fundamentals of where it is and it's not that unusual for niche players to emerge and get absorbed.


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