Disney to launch Netflix competitor

kerplun k · 12-04-2019 8:40am #1

Looks like Disney+ will launch in November.

km79 · 12-04-2019 10:43am

What is Disney Life then? Was just about to sign up to it using Three credit? Will it be incorporated into Disney +

Sleepy · 12-04-2019 11:07am

Honestly I'm hoping Disney+ fails. I like Netflix, they've practically defined the medium of on-line streaming and I'd hate to see them bullied out of it by Disney's deep pockets

correction · 12-04-2019 12:41pm

Do we know anything about how this Disney+ will work in Ireland? I'm assuming plenty of the content won't be available here for a while yet?

Sad Professor · 12-04-2019 12:46pm

correction wrote: »

Do we know anything about how this Disney+ will work in Ireland? I'm assuming plenty of the content won't be available here for a while yet?

US only to begin with. Global rollout may take up to 4 years apparently (see below), but UK will probably be 2020, so we might get it then or soon after.

https://twitter.com/DaveLeeBBC/status/1116473076814737408

Yermande · 12-04-2019 12:52pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Honestly I'm hoping Disney+ fails. I like Netflix, they've practically defined the medium of on-line streaming and I'd hate to see them bullied out of it by Disney's deep pockets

They've got plenty of franchises, particularly Marvel and Star Wars, that could really benefit from quality long-form treatment. So I personally hope it succeeds. As a film and TV fan I wouldn't wish any creative enterprise to fail.

correction · 12-04-2019 12:59pm

So I won't even legally be able to sign up and watch the original content? So then so far my only option to watch Lady & The Tramp on launch day would be illegally? I'm sure they'll make it available to buy in countries without access once the time comes but it'll be interesting nonetheless.

pixelburp · 12-04-2019 1:07pm

I do wonder how Brexit is going to affect a lot of these kind of services - including others like Amazon (and not just TV streaming but their general store). Ireland often got lumped in with the UK for convenience, but now that only one of us will remain in the EU, I wonder if we'll suffer in terms of getting these kind of products & services.

tigger123 · 12-04-2019 1:30pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I do wonder how Brexit is going to affect a lot of these kind of services - including others like Amazon (and not just TV streaming but their general store). Ireland often got lumped in with the UK for convenience, but now that only one of us will remain in the EU, I wonder if we'll suffer in terms of getting these kind of products & services.

I highly doubt it. We're part of the EU. It's the UK that'll have their service effected if anything.

They'll be too distracted foraging for food and medicine to notice though.

johnny_ultimate · 12-04-2019 1:59pm

A lot of the streaming services, in their shift towards international content, are very much thinking internationally - so you'd hope rights won't be much of an issue there, regardless of how Brexit goes.

What it could impact is cinema releases. Not so much for the big blockbusters, but smaller, independent releasers often buy up UK/Ireland rights. In some cases the Irish release will amount to a cinema or two in Dublin (maybe Galway), and then the arts centre circuit. If customs and shipping charges start becoming a bit more complex after Brexit, one could envision a situation where British distributors don't think the outlay for an Irish release is worth it. Now it's too early to tell whether that will in fact be the case, tbh, and it's a bit of a worst case scenario. But it is something to keep an eye on.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-04-2019 2:01pm

Yermande wrote: »

They've got plenty of franchises, particularly Marvel and Star Wars, that could really benefit from quality long-form treatment. So I personally hope it succeeds. As a film and TV fan I wouldn't wish any creative enterprise to fail.

You really think that those franchises haven’t been played to death? Star Wars fans don’t like Star Wars these days.

Sleepy · 12-04-2019 2:04pm

Yermande wrote: »

They've got plenty of franchises, particularly Marvel and Star Wars, that could really benefit from quality long-form treatment. So I personally hope it succeeds. As a film and TV fan I wouldn't wish any creative enterprise to fail.

Netflix's original goal of being the "Spotify for Film & TV" is what most of the market want imo. With Disney, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, HBO Now, YouTubeTV, Starz et all trying to jump on their bandwagon we're going to end up with an incredibly fractured eco-system for TV/Film content and that's only going to encourage piracy.

There's nothing creative about the studios trying to take over the distribution channel, it's a tried-and-tested business plan that goes back to the studios owning cinemas and television channels. It's greed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-04-2019 2:06pm

tigger123 wrote: »

I highly doubt it. We're part of the EU. It's the UK that'll have their service effected if anything.

They'll be too distracted foraging for food and medicine to notice though.

I dint think ireland is lumped in with the U.K. at all with regards to any TV or movie licensing. If we were iTunes would be better.

Quazzie · 12-04-2019 2:08pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Netflix's original goal of being the "Spotify for Film & TV" is what most of the market want imo. With Disney, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, HBO Now, YouTubeTV, Starz et all trying to jump on their bandwagon we're going to end up with an incredibly fractured eco-system for TV/Film content and that's only going to encourage piracy.

There's nothing creative about the studios trying to take over the distribution channel, it's a tried-and-tested business plan that goes back to the studios owning cinemas and television channels. It's greed. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have to agree. I currently pay for Sky (basic package) and I also pay for Netflix, but if/when Disney, Apple, Youtube etc start to become equally as big and all want money from me, I'll just resort back to my dodgy box, which is a once off payment per year and has them all in one convenient place

Sad Professor · 12-04-2019 2:38pm

The writing was on the wall for Netflix from early on. The film studios were never going to allow them to do to the film/tv industry what iTunes did to the music industry. Netflix's goal from 2012 onward was to become a HBO-like content producer so they could compete with the content owners when decided they wanted in on streaming. Aside from the quality of their original programming being far below HBO standards, Netflix have achieved that.

I don't see any of this increasing piracy tbh. It's not like Netflix ever gave you access to everything like Spotify does. It's selection was always pretty limited. Barely any films before 1980, missing most of the major prestige shows, etc. The shift from broadcast to streaming hasn't changed tv viewing that much. Most people just want something to veg out to and as the success of crap like Birdbox and Bright show, many of them will watch the first thing that pops up when they open the app. I don't see all those people going back to torrenting or messing around with Kodi add-ons that get abandoned every 3 months.

Yermande · 12-04-2019 2:38pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You really think that those franchises haven’t been played to death? Star Wars fans don’t like Star Wars these days.

I'm not a Star Wars movie fan. I came to the franchise via The Old Republic RPG's and the Thrawn novels. I agree that the main through-line of the franchise has been almost rinsed to death, but free from that baggage it's a great setting and still has a lot of potential. I expect Disney will continue to play it safe (fingers crossed for the upcoming The Mandalorian series) but, as per my original comment, I always hope and wish for success over failure.

In terms of Marvel being played to death. Well, Black Panther was one of the most critically celebrated films of 2018 and the first superhero film to be nominated for a Best Picture Oscar, and yet it wasn't even the highest grossing superhero movie of the year. Into the Spider-Verse (admittedly not a Disney-owned IP) is arguably the stand-out piece of mainstream animation of the century so far, and based on a character we're all sick to death of, and yet it worked. So the interest and the audience is still there for Marvel, be it Marvel Studios or broader Marvel properties.

I think that the Marvel TV shows that we've seen so far have been a missed opportunity. There's been some excellent re-imaginings of B-tier characters happening within the comics, and the optimist in me would like to think that at least some of that creativity might transfer over to Disney now that they're announcing new Marvel productions.

To answer your question, I don't think both franchises have been played to death, relative to the depth of their catalogues and potential. My fear is that Disney, with its family friendly approach, won't capitalise on all of that potential.

I can see that I'm being very optimistic and I'll take that on the chin. I just remember a time when comic book adaptations were flat-out awful and the only decent Star Wars story was on my Xbox or in a dusty old paperback, so I'm happy that there's new shows and movies being produced.

icdg · 12-04-2019 2:49pm

correction wrote: »

So I won't even legally be able to sign up and watch the original content? So then so far my only option to watch Lady & The Tramp on launch day would be illegally?.

Sky still have a content deal with Disney through to 2020, so it might appear on Sky Cinema. Not sure if the deal covers what would technically be a direct-to-video release.

Alternatively, maybe they’ll give it a cinematic release internationally?

Yermande · 12-04-2019 2:55pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Netflix's original goal of being the "Spotify for Film & TV" is what most of the market want imo. With Disney, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, HBO Now, YouTubeTV, Starz et all trying to jump on their bandwagon we're going to end up with an incredibly fractured eco-system for TV/Film content and that's only going to encourage piracy.

There's nothing creative about the studios trying to take over the distribution channel, it's a tried-and-tested business plan that goes back to the studios owning cinemas and television channels. It's greed. Nothing more, nothing less.

My TV/film eco-system is already, and I expect always be, extremely fractured. I use various subscriptions and digital outlets and still buy, and am frequently forced to import, Bluray releases of films that I cannot access anywhere else. I refuse to have my taste in art determined by whatever Netflix have been able to license. A one-stop solution is for me in 2019 exactly what it was in 1999, a daydream.

As for Disney's greed, I agree with you. They've announced a lot of content that I'm interested in and am willing to pay for, but I'm under no illusions as to why they're doing it. They want to be the biggest and the richest. There's nothing creative about that impulse, but earning and retaining that market share necessitates new content being bought or funded through its development, and that's what I'm interested in.

It's the exact same with Netflix. I'm eagerly awaiting Charlie Kauffman's new film next year, but Netflix haven't bought it because they're Kauffman fans, they've bought it because I and many others are Kauffman fans.

Disney are old money but, given the chance, would Netflix behave any differently?

pixelburp · 12-04-2019 3:02pm

The simple equation comes down to whether Disney have gambled correctly that there is enough of a market share hungry for "just" Marvel and Star Wars content (I know there's more than that on the channel). There's an ongoing debate as to whether there's a large enough audience out there for non-trilogy Star Wars content in the first place, and the MCU bubble will burst at some stage, it's only a matter of when.

Netflix / Amazon have a very wide menu at the moment, and while the quality is debatable at times, there's plenty on both services to keep any number of audience types entertained. I get the temptation to have access to Disney's back catalogue is a big one, I just wonder whether Disney might be overestimating their appeal.

kerplun k · 12-04-2019 3:07pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Netflix's original goal of being the "Spotify for Film & TV" is what most of the market want imo. With Disney, Apple, Amazon, Hulu, HBO Now, YouTubeTV, Starz et all trying to jump on their bandwagon we're going to end up with an incredibly fractured eco-system for TV/Film content and that's only going to encourage piracy.

There's nothing creative about the studios trying to take over the distribution channel, it's a tried-and-tested business plan that goes back to the studios owning cinemas and television channels. It's greed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally I don't see any issues with the competition.
No one will force you to use any of these services and the competition will only force each of the content providers to remain competitively priced, but not only that, the standard of content will also increase. for instance, A Star Wars live action television series would never have been possible without a paid subscription TV service, and while the market is ultimately saturated, its up to us to decide which providers we want to endorse, which only further pushes these providers to deliver better stuff.

However, I do think that the market is very crowded and will only get even more competitive, the ones losing out here will be the provider that people don't support, so I think its only a matter of time before one of the big players loses billions.

Yermande · 12-04-2019 3:08pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The simple equation comes down to whether Disney have gambled correctly that there is enough of a market share hungry for "just" Marvel and Star Wars content (I know there's more than that on the channel). There's an ongoing debate as to whether there's a large enough audience out there for non-trilogy Star Wars content in the first place, and the MCU bubble will burst at some stage, it's only a matter of when.

Netflix / Amazon have a very wide menu at the moment, and while the quality is debatable at times, there's plenty on both services to keep any number of audience types entertained. I get the temptation to have access to Disney's back catalogue is a big one, I just wonder whether Disney might be overestimating their appeal.

I wonder if we're all underestimating exactly how much they're going to throw at this thing? Have they categorically said it will only be a vehicle for Disney owned vehicles? What's to stop them opening their wallet and start buying stuff all over the shop to supplement their own content. In fact I'd be surprised if that didn't happen if they don't make the kind of splash they're hoping for.

But you've raised a good point. I'm primarily interested in Marvel and Star Wars, but I'm not going to keep a rolling subscription based on just that. I'll likely sign up for 1 month every now and then and binge my way through the latest additions to those franchises.

Edit: Actually, I can't see them licensing third-party content.

Yermande · 12-04-2019 3:42pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

The writing was on the wall for Netflix from early on. The film studios were never going to allow them to do to the film/tv industry what iTunes did to the music industry. Netflix's goal from 2012 onward was to become a HBO-like content producer so they could compete with the content owners when decided they wanted in on streaming. Aside from the quality of their original programming being far below HBO standards, Netflix have achieved that.

I don't see any of this increasing piracy tbh. It's not like Netflix ever gave you access to everything like Spotify does. It's selection was always pretty limited. Barely any films before 1980, missing most of the major prestige shows, etc. The shift from broadcast to streaming hasn't changed tv viewing that much. Most people just want something to veg out to and as the success of crap like Birdbox and Bright show, many of them will watch the first thing that pops up when they open the app. I don't see all those people going back to torrenting or messing around with Kodi add-ons that get abandoned every 3 months.

I agree with pretty much all of that. The Netflix library is very limited indeed. We maintain a subscription in my house because my girlfriend will watch just about anything, but I'd have gotten rid of it long ago, maybe popping back every now to wipe out a full series.

Have you sampled Amazon Prime? The movie selection is bordering on a joke, although in fairness they don't pretend otherwise; their service is primarily about their in-house content.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-04-2019 3:50pm

Yermande wrote: »

I agree with pretty much all of that. The Netflix library is very limited indeed. We maintain a subscription in my house because my girlfriend will watch just about anything, but I'd have gotten rid of it long ago, maybe popping back every now to wipe out a full series.

Have you sampled Amazon Prime? The movie selection is bordering on a joke, although in fairness they don't pretend otherwise; their service is primarily about their in-house content.

If by Netflix library you mean movies, it is not a movie streaming service anymore. Beyond that it is hardly limited.

I suppose all that Disney has to do with this service is make more money than they would have by allowing Netflix to have their shows, but I can't see them dominating the market in any way. Their major movie franchises are going to play in the theatres long before their own streaming service get them, and I would assume that the kind of people who like blockbusters that much will go and see them on the big screen.

Then they have a back catalogue which is impressive but you probably only need to have a few of those movies to keep the kids entertained.

Yermande · 12-04-2019 4:21pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

If by Netflix library you mean movies, it is not a movie streaming service anymore.

You're quite right, I'm primarily interested in films. Although to give them credit I've watched a good range of their shows over the years.

Hurrache · 12-04-2019 8:21pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

The writing was on the wall for Netflix from early on. The film studios were never going to allow them to do to the film/tv industry what iTunes did to the music industry.

iTunes didn't have much of an affect on the music industry IMO, certainly nothing like Netflix or Spotify.

If the TV and movie market continues to fracture it'll be the piracy route for many.

ted1 · 12-04-2019 8:26pm

I’ll cancel sky shortly and sign up to amazon and Disney.

Already have Netflix, the kids don’t watch live tv. O my sky on demand and Netflix. The misses loves greys anotomy , the good fight etc. She wants to keep access to this.

Her general view if Netflix is that all their shows are violent and gorey

Sad Professor · 12-04-2019 9:39pm

Yermande wrote: »

I agree with pretty much all of that. The Netflix library is very limited indeed. We maintain a subscription in my house because my girlfriend will watch just about anything, but I'd have gotten rid of it long ago, maybe popping back every now to wipe out a full series.

Have you sampled Amazon Prime? The movie selection is bordering on a joke, although in fairness they don't pretend otherwise; their service is primarily about their in-house content.

Yeah, I've tried Amazon. It's very poor alright. Mostly obscure tv movies.

Hurrache wrote: »

iTunes didn't have much of an affect on the music industry IMO, certainly nothing like Netflix or Spotify.

iTunes unbundled the album and totally dominated music downloading for years. It paved the way for Spotify. The music industry rues the day it gave Apple so much power. Note how much difficulty Apple has had negotiating with the rest of the entertainment industry for movies, tv shows, books, etc. They see the music industry as an example of what happens when you let one let one company dictate to them. This is why Netflix was never going to be a Spotify for movies and tv.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-04-2019 11:27pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, I've tried Amazon. It's very poor alright. Mostly obscure tv movies.

iTunes unbundled the album and totally dominated music downloading for years. It paved the way for Spotify. The music industry rues the day it gave Apple so much power. Note how much difficulty Apple has had negotiating with the rest of the entertainment industry for movies, tv shows, books, etc. They see the music industry as an example of what happens when you let one let one company dictate to them. This is why Netflix was never going to be a Spotify for movies and tv.

If the music and other industries were thinking like that they were stupid. As Steve Jobs said easy is better than free. The music industry started to recover when easy became better than free. iTunes earns labels money. So does Spotify. Torrent doesn’t.

KilOit · 13-04-2019 10:22am

Yermande · 13-04-2019 10:26am

I wonder how long it will take before some enterprising young start-up packages all of these content providers together and charges 50 quid a month for the entire set and a bespoke remote control. Just like Sky TV, basically. A snake eating its own tail.

Sad Professor · 13-04-2019 10:42am

Yermande wrote: »

I wonder how long it will take before some enterprising young start-up packages all of these content providers together and charges 50 quid a month for the entire set and a bespoke remote control. Just like Sky TV, basically. A snake eating its own tail.

That's what Apple has been trying to do with great difficulty for the better part of the last decade. The content providers won't play ball. Their underwhelming and overpriced bundle service is launching in the US later this year.

Disney to launch Netflix competitor

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