Equality of marriage and love

Cabaal · 06-03-2019 8:43pm

pauldla wrote: »

And what if one of the partners isn't gay but did kinda experiment once for a little while in their early twenties and kinda liked it but didn't really pursue it after that...?

Asking for a friend.

The answer is clear, the child would have to be taken off of them and given to somebody else for between 25-25% of the time.

Need to ensure they are "raised right" after all.

pauldla · 07-03-2019 12:31am

Cabaal wrote: »

The answer is clear, the child would have to be taken off of them and given to somebody else for between 25-25% of the time.

Need to ensure they are "raised right" after all.

Could I just give 20-25% of the child, all the time? The bits I don't like, perhaps?

I mean my friend give. Not me.

robindch · 14-03-2019 12:53pm

pauldla wrote: »

Scurrilous gossip gleaned from the internet: Pence is gay, and has undergone conversation therapy. There are a few skeletons in that closet, it is said.

Reports coming in that Varadkar will be having breakfast tomorrow morning with his partner, Matt Barrett. Mike Pence will be having breakfast too, though no doubt he'll be eyeing the sausages warily:

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/leo-varadkars-partner-matt-barrett-will-accompany-him-to-breakfast-with-us-vicepresident-mike-pence-37910373.html

recedite · 14-03-2019 5:25pm

robindch wrote: »

no doubt he'll be eyeing the sausages warily..

Sailor uniforms will be de rigeur as it looks like there might be some mutual naval gazing going on over the breakfast.

last year he and his wife Karen did extend an invitation for both the Taoiseach and Mr Barrett to visit his Washington home at the Naval Observatory

Karen Pence won't be present as she's in the Abu Dhabi for the Special Olympics.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-03-2019 6:47pm

Hmm he said he'd never have lunch with a woman unless his wife was present, but gay men are ok... he obviously thinks he's irresistible to women, but not gay guys obviously because of his unprecendented heteroness that jams gaydars at a range of 2000m.

robindch · 14-03-2019 7:08pm

News of the meeting has reached Waterford:

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/03/14/taoiseach-spends-entire-pence-meeting-shifting-boyfriend/

Hotblack Desiato · 15-03-2019 2:35am

Mike "beating off with a shîtty stick those straight women who just can't help themselves" Pence.

What a man.

Peregrinus · 15-03-2019 2:37am

How can I learn his secrets of sexual magnetism?

(Asking for a friend.)

Hotblack Desiato · 15-03-2019 2:46am

His theory of sexual magnetism is that only opposites can ever attract

Peregrinus · 15-03-2019 2:48am

. . . but, boy, do they attract!!!, seems to be his experience. Which is the bit I'm keen to learn more about.

. . .

I mean, the bit my friend is keen to know more about.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-03-2019 2:51am

He's some man for one man.

I've yet to feel the need to send the mrs out of the country just because I'm having lunch with two gay guys, in case one attraction gets in the way of the other, but he's superhetero, not like normal guys.

pauldla · 15-03-2019 8:21am

Lifted from YLYL...is Pence making a move on our Leo...?

Hotblack Desiato · 15-03-2019 11:18am

#HandsOffOurTaoiseach

Cabaal · 17-05-2019 9:02am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48305708

Taiwan's parliament has become the first in Asia to legalise same-sex marriage following a vote on Friday.

robindch · 15-08-2019 12:48pm

Ashers and Gareth Lee are now off to the European Court of Human Rights to establish whether Mr Lee's human rights were denied when Ashers refused to bake him his cake:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49350891

antiskeptic · 16-08-2019 11:12pm

robindch wrote: »

Ashers and Gareth Lee are now off to the European Court of Human Rights to establish whether Mr Lee's human rights were denied when Ashers refused to bake him his cake:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49350891

All the hallmarks of a first world problem.

"This is about limited companies being somehow able to pick and choose which customers they will serve.

"It's such a dangerous precedent."

This man has apparently never been told "Sorry mate, it's members-only" outside a nightclub

robindch · 11-02-2020 11:56pm

First same-sex marriage takes place in Northern Ireland

Robyn Peoples (26) and Sharni Edwards (27) thank campaigners as they make history

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/first-same-sex-marriage-takes-place-in-northern-ireland-1.4170502

Best of luck to them both

robindch · 15-06-2020 5:47pm

Contrary to expectations, given the current conservative majority, SCOTUS has ruled that LGBTQ+ workers are protected by civil rights' law. No doubt Mafia Don will reach for his Twitter client and, very slowly and carefully, support this with a thoughtful comment applauding the result:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/15/politics/supreme-court-lgbtq-employment-case/index.html

Hotblack Desiato · 19-06-2020 12:21pm

Great! but just wait until they are asked to rule on gay abortions.

robindch · 22-03-2023 8:37pm

Uganda passes a splendidly wide-reaching anti-homosexuality bill promising hefty prison sentences for a range of made-up crimes and has apparently unleashed a wave of blackmail across the country:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-65034343

robindch · 23-03-2023 12:39pm

"Leaked emails from anti-trans lobbyists and state lawmakers read, at times, like scripts from “The Handmaid’s Tale.”"

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxpky/leaked-emails-reveal-an-anti-trans-holy-war

robindch · 16-08-2023 10:34am

German RCC priest blesses a group of couples, one of whom is same-sex, then discovers that news of his activities has leaked back to Rome.

“There is always a small number of people in any parish with their ‘deep concerns’ who creep to Rome. It’s less than five per cent, but they are very spiteful”, he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/08/16/blessing-controversy-underlines-deep-divisions-within-german-catholic-church/

Cabaal · 16-08-2023 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120391171#Comment_120391171

The Handmaid's Tale isn't fiction, its just a history book from an alternative potential reality

Hotblack Desiato · 16-08-2023 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984950#Comment_120984950

A record 522,000 left Catholic Church in Germany last year. With 20.9 million members, the Catholic Church in Germany has lost more than a tenth of its following – nearly 2.4 million people – in the last decade.

No doubt the substantial cost of remaining nominally a member in countries like Germany helps concentrate minds.

Peregrinus · 17-08-2023 3:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120987296#Comment_120987296

Not as much as you might think. Registered (and therefore taxpaying) membership has always been much higher than the number rocking up to mass each week. It seems unlikely that the decline in recent years is driven by a sudden aversion to paying taxes that people didn't feel before; far more likely to be a response to abuse scandals and other institutional failings.

We've seen a much steeper decline in Ireland in the numbers identifying as Catholic, and that's clearly not driven by tax concerns. I see no reason to assume that the German decline is.

Hotblack Desiato · 17-08-2023 10:21am

Hmm yeah but the trend in non-RC-box-ticking here has a very considerable lag (20-30 years or more) compared to non-participation in mass, confession especially, and of course vocations which went into steep decline in the early 70s and never recovered.

Ticking a box is hardly a reliable indicator of 'membership' in any meaningful (non-wooey eternal change to the supposed soul) sense anyway, which is why I've always said the only thing we can be pretty sure of with someone ticking the RC box is that they were baptised, but anything in relation to their current beliefs or practices is an assumption.

If people are paying a substantial bit of money and are aware of that and that it's optional, then they are more inclined to question what their relationship with that body should be. My Irish brother-in-law was living in Switzerland for several years before he became aware that he was paying an optional tax... and he's a qualified accountant! Needless to say he opted out asap but was not best pleased about the amount he'd paid already.

crusd · 17-08-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988888#Comment_120988888

I know of one Irish person who moved to Germany who had to declare that he wasn't RC. Their base assumption in the tax system seemed to be he is Irish therefore Catholic so must pay the tax. I think he had to complete at notarised declaration that he had left the church.

I beleive that is someone wished to get married in a church they need to be registered as catholic.

Peregrinus · 18-08-2023 2:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989585#Comment_120989585

Everyone who takes up permanent residency in Germany has to register their religious identification. This isn't a rule for Irish people only, or for (former) Catholics only.

As for having to be registered as a Catholic in order to be married in a Catholic church, this ties into a subject that has been much discussed on boards in the past; can you ever really leave the Catholic church? It's an article of faith for some on this board that, in the Catholic church's view, you can't — once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Whereas the Catholic church's actual view is that you can indeed leave the church, but it requires a "formal act" which is in some way public. Simply not going to mass any more doesn't cut it, but being received into another church does, as does — in Germany — cancelling your registration as a Catholic with the state.

Does this mean you can't be married in a Catholic church? Not necessarily; in general, as long as one member of the couple is a Catholic, you can have a Catholic marriage ceremony. But if both have left the church, or if one has left the church and the other was never a member in the first place then no, you're not Catholics, you don't get a Catholic wedding. (But you'd hardly want one, so I don't see that the issue would arise very often in practice.)

Peregrinus · 18-08-2023 2:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989537#Comment_120989537

Agree to all that. But Germans are all aware that the church tax is optional; this doesn't come as a surprising discovery to them in their mid-50s. And huge numbers of them opted to pay it, while not being particularly active, or active at all, in their respective churches. (This isn't just a Catholic thing.) What has happened in the past 10 years or so is that a significant chunk of those, um, non-playing members have formally opted out of the Catholic church. (I don't know if other churches have had the same experience.)

What changed in the past 10 years to make them opt out? Needs further study, but there's no reason at present to think it was the money, because nothing about the money side of the equation changed in that time. It seems more likely to have been their feelings about the church.

robindch · 22-08-2023 10:51am

[Peregrinus] It's an article of faith for some on this board that, in the Catholic church's view, you can't — once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Whereas the Catholic church's actual view is that you can indeed leave the church, but it requires a "formal act" which is in some way public. Simply not going to mass any more doesn't cut it, but being received into another church does, as does — in Germany — cancelling your registration as a Catholic with the state.

That's not fully accurate. Depending on who pronounces upon the topic, the RCC's position varies slightly, but the central point is that once you are baptized, you are marked as "belonging to the church" and that mark cannot be erased, so membership of the church is therefore permanent.

The RCC does, however, permit acts of "defection" by which somebody who has been baptized, and therefore belongs "to the Body of Christ that is the Church", commits apostasy, heresy or schism, then declares that they have done so in writing to competent church authorities, who must then judge if the act and the declaration are valid, and if so, then the RCC allows that the cleric can add a note to the baptismal registry stating that the person concerned has committed a valid act of defection. The full process is documented at the link below, but it also states that the act of defection, even if judged valid, does not remove one from the "Body of Christ that is the Church".

Make of this word salad what you will:

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Equality of marriage and love

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