World League thread

troyzer · 28-02-2019 8:42am #1

Lads, this is getting advanced to the point now where I think it deserves its own thread. The details of a new 12 year deal have been revelead.

Per the NZ Herald article today:

Essentially the new format will require all 12 nations to play each other once in the calendar year, with a semi-final and final to be played in late November, possibly early December.

The 12 nations will be the current Six Nations – England, France, Italy, Scotland, Ireland and Wales – the current Rugby Championship sides of New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Argentina plus Japan and USA who are going to be invited to join the Rugby Championship.

There will be no promotion or relegation from either the Six Nations or Rugby Championship which means the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga have been left out in the cold for at least 10 years.

The only real difference between this and the details leaked at the LA meeting is that relegation now seems to be off the table which was clearly done to get the Six Nations teams on board. They want to have it ready to go by 2020 which means we might well have had our last ever June and Autumn internationals as they currently exist.

Locking out the tier 2s like the islands and Georgia is fairly reprehensible but understandable from a commercial perspective.

The players are not happy and feel like they haven't been consulted and that this will have a negative effect on player welfare and the club game:

International Rugby Players President Jonathan Sexton said: “While players gave this idea a cautious welcome when we met at the end of last year, it now seems like a commercial deal on the future of the game is being negotiated at a rapid pace with little consideration given to the important points we raised with World Rugby in November.

“The issue of player load has never been so topical, however needs to be properly understood. To suggest that players can play five incredibly high-level test matches in consecutive weeks in November, is out of touch and shows little understanding of the physical strain this brings”

There are quotes from other top test captains like Owen Farrell and Kieran Read in the article I linked.

It would make the Lions tours unworkable and also undermine the value of the world cup which would effectively only be notable for having tier 2 sides get battered on live TV. I'm really, really worried about this.

PMC83 · 28-02-2019 9:14am

Yep, really not sure I'm loving this idea at all. Also locking out the pacific island teams?? Come on lads

troyzer · 28-02-2019 9:15am

The tier 2 teams would never play top sides outside of a world cup, it's madness.

thomond2006 · 28-02-2019 9:20am

Growing the game eh?

troyzer · 28-02-2019 9:23am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Growing the game eh?

Nah, player welfare is the priority.

lawred2 · 28-02-2019 9:29am

There should have been at least one relegation place.. they are being given nothing to play for

However reading the logistics of it, does the six nations serve as five games played by the northern hemisphere sides?

If so, then it's hard to see how relegation could have been facilitated.

lawred2 · 28-02-2019 9:34am

Big money getting a seat at the table as well with Japan and the USA involved.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2019 9:34am

If the IRFU and in particular the NZRU have voted in favour of this they should be ashamed of themselves really.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 9:36am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the IRFU and in particular the NZRU have voted in favour of this they should be ashamed of themselves really.

I don't see why the IRFU would, the NZRU definitely did though given their financial issues.

Clegg · 28-02-2019 9:46am

Read an interestin point about the Pacific Islands sides being left out.

We'll see more of their top players retiring from test rugby and signing for English and French sides for big money. There's little to no incentive or benefit for playing internationally when you can't play the best sides. Nadolo has already retired from test rugby to focus on Montpellier and will miss the World Cup. We'll be seeing more of this in the future.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 9:46am

The SANZAR unions have the most to gain here so you can be sure they were the driving force.

Agustin Pichot's crusade to protect the smaller nations lasted just long enough to ensure Argentina got their snouts in the trough.

This whole thing is a disgrace.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 9:47am

Former Former wrote: »

The SANZAR unions have the most to gain here so you can be sure they were the driving force.

Agustin Pichot's crusade to protect the smaller nations lasted just long enough to ensure Argentina got their snouts in the trough.

This whole thing is a disgrace.

It's almost FIFA-esque.

stephen_n · 28-02-2019 9:47am

How exactly does this fit with the idea of player welfare which was floated when it was first mentioned? Seems like a money grab for the bigger nations in world rugby and f the rest.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 9:49am

stephen_n wrote: »

How exactly does this fit with the idea of player welfare which was floated when it was first mentioned? Seems like a money grab for the bigger nations in world rugby and f the rest.

It's essentially a money grab by SANZAAR and the North are enabling them knowing that if they go into financial ruin, it'll hurt them too. SANZAAR do have real problems that need to be fixed but this solution throws the tier 2 teams, player welfare, the world cup and the magic of test rugby against teams only every few years firmly under the bus.

Clegg · 28-02-2019 9:50am

Japan and America are also joining the Rugby Championship. The US are fecking terrible. There's no reason for including the other than for money. Pointless fixture for the SANZAAR sides. Increases likelihood of injury with more games on the horizon.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2019 9:56am

Former Former wrote: »

The SANZAR unions have the most to gain here so you can be sure they were the driving force.

Agustin Pichot's crusade to protect the smaller nations lasted just long enough to ensure Argentina got their snouts in the trough.

This whole thing is a disgrace.

Pichot is on the board of USA Rugby now as well

thomond2006 · 28-02-2019 9:58am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pichot is on the board of USA Rugby now as well

Ugh this is L*wryesque.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 10:05am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pichot is on the board of USA Rugby now as well

Oh good. I was worried there might be a conflict of interest or something.

Exclamation Marc · 28-02-2019 10:06am

troyzer wrote: »

It's almost FIFA-esque.

It's actually the opposite.

Fifa are extending the world cup size to include as many teams as possible, making the qualification process almost redundant. Sure they have a larger market of teams but they're moving to include as many teams as possible.

This is going the other way in locking teams out.

AdamD · 28-02-2019 10:10am

Pichot has consistently come out with ****e ideas since he got the job.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2019 10:29am

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

It's actually the opposite.

Fifa are extending the world cup size to include as many teams as possible, making the qualification process almost redundant. Sure they have a larger market of teams but they're moving to include as many teams as possible.

This is going the other way in locking teams out.

Yeah. If it was FIFA-esque then we might actually have a European body that’s responsible for all of the sides in Europe rather than just a small cabal of six teams who are only interested in looking after themselves. Our sport is nowhere near that level of maturity.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 10:29am

In some ways it is good. There had been a need for the top NH sides to play the best in the SH more often.

For the 3 tests down under in June you could have a first game against Argentina (put out a 2nd string). Then S Africa and a final test against NZ.

Then in November you play Oz, Japan and USA. Hardly a tough run. If in the top rankings you then play 2 high end games, so max of 3 fixtures for the top players.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 10:32am

The lads will be clocking up serious air miles.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 10:41am

troyzer wrote: »

The lads will be clocking up serious air miles.

Not necessarily. You could have 2 groups of players.
First group (2nd string) flies to Argentina, main group flies to SA, then certain players join the 1st team in NZ for the last test.

It is pretty certain that the 1st xv won't play 3 international games in a row in June or November, unless they get to the latter stages in November.

The big impact is on the clubs. How will the Top14 and Premiership react. 5 week break in the leagues without top players and then losing them for the 6 Nations.

The South Sea players' value will increase as effectively they have no games to play.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 10:42am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Not necessarily. You could have 2 groups of players.
First group (2nd string) flies to Argentina, main group flies to SA, then certain players join the 1st team in NZ for the last test.

It is pretty certain that the 1st xv won't play 3 international games in a row in June or November, unless they get to the latter stages in November.

The big impact is on the clubs. How will the Top14 and Premiership react. 5 week break in the leagues without top players and then losing them for the 6 Nations.

The South Sea players' value will increase as effectively they have no games to play.

I don't know if you've noticed but Argentina have knocked us out of two world cups, you can't send a team there with ZERO of our top players.

Tigerandahalf · 28-02-2019 10:46am

troyzer wrote: »

I don't know if you've noticed but Argentina have knocked us out of two world cups, you can't send a team there with ZERO of our top players.

Wales went there this year with a 2nd string and beat them. They are not the same team they once were.

If Sky secure the tv rights it would give them a great spread of games from the 6N in February right through to November.

troyzer · 28-02-2019 10:53am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Wales went there this year with a 2nd string and beat them. They are not the same team they once were.

If Sky secure the tv rights it would give them a great spread of games from the 6N in February right through to November.

That 2nd string team in the first test shared 11 players from the 23 which just beat England including George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Gareth Davies and Rob Evans among others. It was a bit of an experimental side but it was absolutely stacked with top drawer players. Ireland couldn't afford to send nothing but our second stringers to Argentina. We didn't even do that to Italy in November.

sydthebeat · 28-02-2019 10:58am

can someone outline to me what problem they are trying to solve with this please?

troyzer · 28-02-2019 11:01am

sydthebeat wrote: »

can someone outline to me what problem they are trying to solve with this please?

All of the SANZAAR teams have huge financial difficulties for different reasons. They're trying to offset this by maximising TV revenue and a certain TV company (un-named but probably Sky) have offered a gigantic TV deal on the condition that they get the Six Nations, Rugby Championship and a new North/South annual tournament as part of the package.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 11:01am

sydthebeat wrote: »

can someone outline to me what problem they are trying to solve with this please?

The financial deficit faced by the Southern Hemisphere unions. That's it.

Fewer games? No.

More involvement for the Tier 2 nations? No.

Player welfare? No.

Former Former · 28-02-2019 11:03am

This is also very likely the death knell for international rugby on free-to-air TV.

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