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What's the optimal week?

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  • 21-02-2019 12:58am
    #1
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭


    Which of these three 30 mile weeks is better and why?

    From a stimulus and an injury risk POV.

    What are the pros and cons of one week type over the other?

    Assume correct effort levels and pacing. Assume it's aerobic base building.

    Week A.

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: Rest
    Tues: 6 miles easy
    Wed: 7 miles easy
    Thurs: Rest
    Fri: 7 miles easy
    Sat: Rest

    Week B

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: Rest
    Tue: Rest
    Wed: 10 miles easy
    Thurs: 10 miles easy
    Fri: Rest
    Sat: Rest

    Week C

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: 3 miles recovery
    Tue: 4 miles easy
    Wed: 3 miles easy
    Thurs: 3 miles easy
    Fri: 4 miles easy
    Sat: 3 miles easy


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    #2
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,418 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Lazare wrote: »
    Which of these three 30 mile weeks is better and why?

    From a stimulus and an injury risk POV.

    What are the pros and cons of one week type over the other?

    Assume correct effort levels and pacing. Assume it's aerobic base building.

    Week A.

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: Rest
    Tues: 6 miles easy
    Wed: 7 miles easy
    Thurs: Rest
    Fri: 7 miles easy
    Sat: Rest

    Week B

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: Rest
    Tue: Rest
    Wed: 10 miles easy
    Thurs: 10 miles easy
    Fri: Rest
    Sat: Rest

    Week C

    Sun: 10 mile endurance run, progression, easy to HMP.
    Mon: 3 miles recovery
    Tue: 4 miles easy
    Wed: 3 miles easy
    Thurs: 3 miles easy
    Fri: 4 miles easy
    Sat: 3 miles easy

    What’s the runner profile? What’s the goal?

    I’ll take the easy option and say “it depends on the runner.” Having said that I don’t think any of the options is the best 30 mile week. The choice between 0, 3 or 4 rest days is too limiting. Why not 1 or 2?

    A 10 mile LR ending in HMP is a tough enough workout, depending on the runner’s ability from experience to carry out this kind of progression. I know when I was less experienced I tended to be far less gradual in transitioning through the gears, often blowing a gasket as a result.

    To me, A has too much rest for the run duration, but B has too much run duration for the days spent running. C is probably best of the three, but unnecessarily has no rest day. Why not give a day off and add a mile to the other days? Why not give 2 days off for beginners?

    Just thinking out loud here of course.


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    #3
    ger664
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ger664


    Agree with murphy_d how long is a piece os string.

    A looks the best but I would go 4/6/4 Tue Wed Thurs and 5 Sat and every second week add some faster miles into LR.

    Again depends on how many days running and what mileage was been completed before hand or where you are coming from or intending to go


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    #4
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭ariana`


    To be honest it looks like a nice way of demonstrating that it's not all about the number of miles run!

    As someone who runs in/around 30mpw 'A' jumps out at me as being the most likely to suit me and seems the most sensible to my novice eyes in terms of mix of run duration and rest days.


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    #5
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Don't get caught up on a calendar week, I would consider a 30 mile weekly average program in 3 day cycles 2 on, 1 off, over 3 weeks you can hit your 90 miles.


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    #6
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    What I'm trying to get at I suppose is whether it's all about the mileage (again assuming everything is optimal) or whether it's all about the make up of that mileage. In terms of achieving the best training stimulus.

    Is six days running shorter distances better than four days running medium length distances?


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    #7
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    BeepBeep67 wrote: »
    Don't get caught up on a calendar week, I would consider a 30 mile weekly average program in 3 day cycles 2 on, 1 off, over 3 weeks you can hit your 90 miles.

    That sounds sensible.

    Posted my previous before reading.


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    #8
    El CabaIIo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    Lazare wrote: »
    What I'm trying to get at I suppose is whether it's all about the mileage (again assuming everything is optimal) or whether it's all about the make up of that mileage. In terms of achieving the best training stimulus.

    Is six days running shorter distances better than four days running medium length distances?

    It's probably better to add a day of 40-60 minutes than to have less days but at 60+ minutes first. When you've stable and balanced week before adding more than 60 somedays. We were just talking about this on one of the logs yesterday yesterday. Mileage is important but how you spread it over a cycle is important too I think.


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    #9
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    ariana` wrote: »
    To be honest it looks like a nice way of demonstrating that it's not all about the number of miles run!

    As someone who runs in/around 30mpw 'A' jumps out at me as being the most likely to suit me and seems the most sensible to my novice eyes in terms of mix of run duration and rest days.

    A is what I'm currently doing, well, building to, on 28 mpw right now. Was doing something like C last year and found it easier going. Less rest days but shorter distances.


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    #10
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Lazare wrote: »
    That sounds sensible.

    Posted my previous before reading.

    Something like this

    473682.JPG


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    #11
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Lazare wrote: »
    A is what I'm currently doing, well, building to, on 28 mpw right now. Was doing something like C last year and found it easier going. Less rest days but shorter distances.

    Yeah 'C' is probably closer to what i was doing last year too. I haven't actually hit 30mpw this year either, 29.5 is as close as i've gotten and that was your 'A' type structure: Mon (6.5 session), Wed (7.5 mid week endurance), Fri (5.5 session) & Saturday (10m long run).

    I concur that i found this tougher than similar mileage in the 'C' like approach from last year, i feel this is because it's missing the easy runs as both of the easy paced days are 90 mins + at my pace. On the 'C' like structure i would have had at least 2 days of 60 mins easy pace.


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    #12
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭ariana`


    BeepBeep67 wrote: »
    Something like this

    473682.JPG

    This sounds great in theory but the problem arises for some of us where everything else in life is ordered in a 7 days cycle, for example i always run on a Monday during kids' GAA training or I can't run on Thursdays because my OH is away every Thursday. So personally I'd find this difficult to maintain :cool:


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    #13
    Huzzah!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Lazare wrote: »
    What I'm trying to get at I suppose is whether it's all about the mileage (again assuming everything is optimal) or whether it's all about the make up of that mileage. In terms of achieving the best training stimulus.

    Is six days running shorter distances better than four days running medium length distances?

    Timely thread as it's something I'm playing around with myself at the moment. The mileage will be the same but I'm wondering if having an MLR and two shorter runs midweek suits be better than having equal mileage on the three days.

    FWIW, I moved from five days a week in 2017 to six days a week in 2018, but keeping the mileage the same, and I found six days much easier, whether psychological or not, I don't know.


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    #14
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Timely thread as it's something I'm playing around with myself at the moment. The mileage will be the same but I'm wondering if having an MLR and two shorter runs midweek suits be better than having equal mileage on the three days.

    FWIW, I moved from five days a week in 2017 to six days a week in 2018, but keeping the mileage the same, and I found six days much easier, whether psychological or not, I don't know.

    You mentioned this to me before actually, i remember thinking about it at the time but i didn't have the context, having done a couple of weeks of FRR plan's now i understand it better. It's one of the main differences between the Grads plan and the FRR plans.

    What i like about doing less days is it frees up a day for S&C which gets neglected otherwise. But the runs are longer so when i'm gone i'm gone for longer so i'm not home in time for the younger kids' bedtime or else if i go after they're all in bed i'm running quite late (after 9 pm which is late by my standards). It's probably a case of finding some kind of happy medium and/or a different approach suiting during different seasons or life stages :cool:


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    #15
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Yeah, the time element is definitely a factor. Particularly if you're juggling other stuff in your life.

    Hard for me to understand which approach is best though both for fitness and injury avoidance.

    I'd much prefer 6 days shorter over 4 days longer anyway.


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    #16
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Lazare wrote: »
    Yeah, the time element is definitely a factor. Particularly if you're juggling other stuff in your life.

    Hard for me to understand which approach is best though both for fitness and injury avoidance.

    I'd much prefer 6 days shorter over 4 days longer anyway.

    If the difference is marginal then maybe it's best to go with whichever suits your life best and/or whichever gives you the most enjoyment as ultimately those two factors are what will give you longevity and that's where the biggest gains will be made.


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    #17
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    ariana` wrote: »
    This sounds great in theory but the problem arises for some of us where everything else in life is ordered in a 7 days cycle, for example i always run on a Monday during kids' GAA training or I can't run on Thursdays because my OH is away every Thursday. So personally I'd find this difficult to maintain :cool:

    I have a busy life, travel for work, have various evening commitments, but I haven't missed a day since Aug 2017, there are 24 hrs in each day to play with ;)


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    #18
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    If it turns out to be marginal I definitely will.


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    #19
    Lazare
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    BeepBeep67 wrote: »
    I have a busy life, travel for work, have various evening commitments, but I haven't missed a day since Aug 2017, there are 24 hrs in each day to play with ;)

    I like the structure and routine of the 7 day week though. The chalking off on Sunday, Wed is always X, Saturday is always X. Probably a bit silly but that routine works well for me.


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    #20
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    ariana` wrote: »
    If the difference is marginal then maybe it's best to go with whichever suits your life best and/or whichever gives you the most enjoyment as ultimately those two factors are what will give you longevity and that's where the biggest gains will be made.

    +1 to this big time. As Beepbeep also says about not missing days the secret of improvement is in consistency over a long period of time.


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