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Doctor Who Season 11 [** Spoilers **]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,727 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Exactly. Did the future partners just happen to pass while they were guarding and decided to ensure they would have future guards?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That felt way more like a season finale than the Battle of Thingy-Ma-Jig the other week; not without its flaws with the plotting being a bit haphazard, while the reconciliation with Ryan's Dad felt far, far too fast & tidy (seriously, how could anyone quickly forgive not turning up for your mother / your son's grans funeral??), but I generally enjoyed it as a last episode. A big, epic adventure to end the season.

    And, once again Dr. Who has managed to reset the menace of the Dalek, to make them sinister again - and once again all that was required was to reduce their numbers to a single unit. They keep making the same mistake over and over, reducing their threat by having dozens on-screen ranting impotently, when having just one of the creatures can affect more threat. His writing has been patchy, but credit to Chibnell for realising this - I hope they keep to that in future.

    Side bar though; anyone else a little miffed UNIT has been mothballed? Not sure if all the talk of international funding disappearing was a jab at Brexit, but given the current complexities it's hard not not to read between the lines.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    I did laugh at the fact the alien weaponry was being guarded by a single new guy.
    Well not single as his boyfriend was mentioned. I understand what they were trying to do, but as usual it comes across all clunky and forced. And before the inevitable: Yes, it would have been just as clunky if his girlfriend had been mentioned.
    And I know we shouldn't overthink these things but when the guy was killed while carrying the Dalek part, not only did I find it strange the robbers didn't even check what he was carrying but then he and the package were left in that exact spot, on a road long enough to be covered naturally?
    Yeah. :D Though that a bit wut? To be fair Doctor Who has been more about fantasy and expedient fantasy throughout its history and has been fond of more holes in plot than a moth eaten net. It's the outings where they mount up to a point where you're waiting for more that can become funny.

    Funny enough of the series this along with the thinly veiled Amazon episode I enjoyed the most. To be fair, not a high bar on my account. I didn't mind the dad/gramps/son asides. It showed Chibnal the writer, who can write a particular angle of dialogue very well, kitchen sink, the oop nooorth type stuff. The Tardis featured way more this time out, though the old style emotional bond thing is missing, though fair enough, a change is as good as a rest. Though Chibby missed a trick there with having the Doc/Tardis relationship stay the same, even with the Tardis being identified as all being female, unless she got a sex change too.

    I enjoyed it generally until the Doc showed up. Then it tended to go pear shaped for me more than it didn't. When I hear one set of folks praise her performance as brilliant and another set bemoan her entirely, I"m not so sure if we're all watching the same show.

    Like I said earlier, for me the Doc is a bloke and should have remained so and this was a) a Hail Mary to revive flagging figures and b) the Beeb going full Guardian reader. However, in the end I thought eff it, I'll consider it a reboot/retcon/reimagining, from another dimension :D and come at it that way. Keep my Galifreyan fix going.

    But the main thing that has stymied this for me - and it's not the scripts, though good god they've been lacklustre - is Whittaker. I honestly would have loved a "ahh you're wrong!" moment about her(like I had with Smith for example). I love being wrong, a love I experience on the regular... :D But her? Nope. She's just so... tiresome. Zero charisma and grimaces and weakly spouts (oft cringe)lines from one scene to another. OK imagine yer man who played Rory back in the day. He was a well written guy, played extremely well by the actor and had strengths and weaknesses etc and was a great little character. But, now imagine him as the Doc. Imagine him as the Doc facing a Dalek/slime beast from Hades IV, spouting "I'm the Doctor and you must stop now. Please. I'm trying to be nice". Yeah... Wut? Imagine Whittaker doing the Zygon war speech scene. Not a hope in hell.

    There are a too many companions for me. The "Fam" thing is getting old. Yaz is entirely superfluous, Ryan is OK, but comes across as a character that walked into the wrong set by mistake. Again for me it would have been more interesting just to have her, a "younger" woman and Graham, a middle aged man. That might have made for a far more interesting "gender/age dialogue". Well in the hands of a writer more light of touch. Oh wait...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And yeah, the incidental music is bloody awful. And not just in volume. Not a patch on previous.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,727 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well not single as his boyfriend was mentioned. I understand what they were trying to do, but as usual it comes across all clunky and forced. And before the inevitable: Yes, it would have been just as clunky if his girlfriend had been mentioned.

    I meant single as in he was on his own. :) I didn't even think of relationship.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yeah CT I should have put a smiley in there. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    I was a huge who fan. I have been to cons, met Colin Baker, Tom Baker and Paul McGann.

    I have fallen out of love with the series. I had huge hopes for Capaldi but ended up being so disappointed with his run and alas Jodi Whittaker is going the same way.

    It just feels flat tbh it has done since Matt Smith left


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Yasmin is woefully underdeveloped. Why not have her be one of the cops chasing the runaway car? (she has to work sometime)
    They introduced her as a probation police officer, why not use that sometimes.
    There's something "Ghostbusters reboot" about Doctor Who now and it isn't just the female leads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,727 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Yeah CT I should have put a smiley in there. :D

    Was thinking you weren't serious but wasn't sure.
    flazio wrote: »
    Yasmin is woefully underdeveloped. Why not have her be one of the cops chasing the runaway car? (she has to work sometime)
    They introduced her as a probation police officer, why not use that sometimes.
    There's something "Ghostbusters reboot" about Doctor Who now and it isn't just the female leads.

    Yeah you'd think Yaz would need to work, especially if on probation.
    As for Ghostbusters, I actually liked the reboot, even though I was a naysayer. For this, it was the opposite, always giving the new doctor a chance but Jodie just hasn't won me over yet


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Doctor Who has never worked with 3 companions, not back in the Classic Series and certainly not now. Especially for these once-off style of stories where the story needs to run its course in 50-60 minutes. Now, at least this current lot are a fairly likeable bunch, unlike the terrible trio of Adric, Nyssa and Tegan (shudder), but for Series 12 one'd think at least one person would have to be dropped - perhaps becoming the 'homebase' character for any modern-day episodes. I'd lean towards Ryan, if only because what little story he had is finished, with an easy out for the character by spending time with his repentant Dad in Sheffield.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Personally I'd drop the lot of them save for Graham. The other two are dead ends and the Yaz wan is utterly superfluous(and the actress is below par). It also needs different writers, preferably not ones with some "message" or other to grind out above story and plot. They've all been clunky and obvious and lecturing aimed at Guardian readers who knit their own muesli(it doesn't need to go Daily Mail either :eek:). It can be done better and if you actually want to get a message across it has to be done better.

    But then you'd still have Whittaker. That core is weak tea. Add in too many companions, no real arc/thread to hold it together, clumsy plotting and lecturing, dubious production design, tweaks to the canon and a definite and noticeable drop in the quality of incidental music and it's a hard road.

    And in before the "broflake" stuff: if Whittaker had been cast with Capaldi as Romana I'd be just as Whiskey Tango Foxtrot about it. And her lack of charisma would be even more stark in that setup. And if Capaldi - IMHO the best actor of all of them(and the only one that would have worked in the classic and new series), let down by variable scripts - was in this season 11 speaking the exact same lines I'd be thinking the decline is steeper again.

    Then again, if I was in the driving seat I'd go back to basics, sack the current writers, hire Paul McGann as the Doc(even as a "prequel" of sorts) and go from there. He was more The Doctor in a one off five minute special than Whittaker has been in a full season. And I've never listened to any Big Finish stuff and wasn't too crazy about the 90's TV flic. Never mind just him, watch said five minute special and it's only him and two women and the writing, direction, pacing and acting is well above most of what we saw in this season. The lass who played the head of the sisters easily went toe to toe with him. Oh and she had gravitas and charisma too. No guns either.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    If you have Spotify premium, look up Doctor Who, a lot of Pauls Big Finish Work is there. Don't worry, it's all legally put there by Big Finish.
    Also Series 10 has been put up on Netflix up to World Enough and Time.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    flazio wrote: »
    If you have Spotify premium, look up Doctor Who, a lot of Pauls Big Finish Work is there. Don't worry, it's all legally put there by Big Finish.
    Cheers, but I could never get into audio shows.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,727 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Personally I'd drop the lot of them save for Graham. The other two are dead ends and the Yaz wan is utterly superfluous(and the actress is below par). It also needs different writers, preferably not ones with some "message" or other to grind out above story and plot. They've all been clunky and obvious and lecturing aimed at Guardian readers who knit their own muesli(it doesn't need to go Daily Mail either :eek:). It can be done better and if you actually want to get a message across it has to be done better.

    But then you'd still have Whittaker. That core is weak tea. Add in too many companions, no real arc/thread to hold it together, clumsy plotting and lecturing, dubious production design, tweaks to the canon and a definite and noticeable drop in the quality of incidental music and it's a hard road.

    And in before the "broflake" stuff: if Whittaker had been cast with Capaldi as Romana I'd be just as Whiskey Tango Foxtrot about it. And her lack of charisma would be even more stark in that setup. And if Capaldi - IMHO the best actor of all of them(and the only one that would have worked in the classic and new series), let down by variable scripts - was in this season 11 speaking the exact same lines I'd be thinking the decline is steeper again.

    Then again, if I was in the driving seat I'd go back to basics, sack the current writers, hire Paul McGann as the Doc(even as a "prequel" of sorts) and go from there. He was more The Doctor in a one off five minute special than Whittaker has been in a full season. And I've never listened to any Big Finish stuff and wasn't too crazy about the 90's TV flic. Never mind just him, watch said five minute special and it's only him and two women and the writing, direction, pacing and acting is well above most of what we saw in this season. The lass who played the head of the sisters easily went toe to toe with him. Oh and she had gravitas and charisma too. No guns either.

    Great post.

    I have to agree with you about Walsh. HE CAN ACT. That is a u turn from me.

    You bring up a very interesting point about Capaldi, one of my favourites. HE CAN ACT. And that is something that this series has neglected. They have chosen too many actors who can't act to the level required for this programme.

    And Paul McGann as the next Doc - that is a very canny choice.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ebbsy wrote: »
    I have to agree with you about Walsh. HE CAN ACT. That is a u turn from me.
    I was really surprised myself E. He's "quiet" as an actor. No arm waving, he's still in the part. Natural.

    The thing is Whittaker is a good actor. Check her CV and she's bloody good on that score. If she's playing a Walsh type, a still, quiet, natural role, not the more arm waving scene chewing type, while being able to be quiet when required acting that is part of the Doctor role. That's where she flounders and her arm waving stuff comes across as "wrong".

    That's a very hard set of talents/skills to find in one actor. Previous actors had both to some degree. Tennant was more on the scene chewer end, Ecclestone was more the quiet brooding end, Smith and Capaldi could do both equally. I kinda expected that from Capaldi, but on reflection Smith really impressed me and he didn't initially. John Hurt could chew the scenery while being quiet. Tom Baker ditto.
    And Paul McGann as the next Doc - that is a very canny choice.
    He'd be brilliant I reckon. On so many levels. His age might come into it though depending on the shooting schedule and all the heavy duty public appearances that come with the role. He's the same age as Capaldi, though really doesn't look it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    For Paul McGann we already know where and how he dies and regenerates into the War Doctor.


    That clip about it was pretty good, but is there enough material for him as The Doctor?

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    In retrospect the short 'Night of The Doctor' feels like a feeler for the Capaldi Doctor.
    Think about it, you could easily put Peter Capaldi in that, acting out those lines and it'd still work for his character.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Looks like Season 12 filming is already underway; not sure where.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,182 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Looks like Season 12 filming is already underway; not sure where.

    South Africa


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Cool, thanks fritzelly. No rest for the wicked I guess, and puts paid to the brief rumours Whittaker had left after Season 11.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I'll say this. I didn’t like Capaldis first season. And I think Moffat knew he went down the wrong way and therefore we get the mini reset when 12 rolls out on a tank with a guitar.
    Therefore, I'm willing to give this setup one more chance. Among all the political whinge and the masked sexism from the Internet perhaps Chibnall could see where the series went wrong with fans and will address it in the next season.
    I'd say the BBC will gauge reactions to the first 3 episodes before making a decision.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭jrkb


    Il tune in for the first couple of episodes but if its anything like this season then im out.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    TBH I'll likely not watch. I just found that last season, from pacing, to writing, to design, to acting/casting was mostly below par, sometimes way below.

    Unless reviews from some quarters start coming in as positive. Not the more mainstream reviewers and sites as they were almost 100% saying last season was great, to an embarrassing degree at times.

    I found it was hard to get a middle ground of critique. It seemed to me mostly made up of two groups; the ones who really wanted it to fail and reviewed accordingly and the others that really wanted it to succeed and reviewed accordingly.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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