Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

Odhinn · 29-10-2018 3:14pm

New President of Brazil. A real beauty this one.

On Gay folk

“I would be incapable of loving a homosexual son. I’m not going to be a hypocrite: I’d rather my son died in an accident than showed up with some bloke with a moustache.” (June 2011)
“I won’t fight it or discriminate, but if I see two men kissing each other in the street, I’ll whack them.” (October 2002)
“We Brazilians don’t like homosexuals.” (2013)
“Are [gays] demigods? ... Just because someone has sex with his excretory organ, it doesn’t make him better than anyone else.” (February 2014)

“I don’t run the risk [of seeing my children date black women or being gay]. My children were very well raised.” (March 2011)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/jair-bolsonaro-brazil-tropical-trump-who-hankers-for-days-of-dictatorship?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR3nv-UBQWGd_U1FN3qBtpvSuK4k8BWtZ7_pvpgDU0jPFi4fwRGIEUpnZTI

In a 2011 interview with Jornal de Notícias, Bolsonaro linked homosexuality to pedophilia, claiming that "many of the children who are adopted by gay couples will be abused by these couples." He further argued that Brazil does not need legislation specifically targeting homophobia, because "most homosexuals are murdered by their respective pimps at hours when good citizens are already asleep."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Views_on_homosexuality

He's also pro torture and not gone on "black" people.

PopePalpatine · 29-10-2018 3:21pm

But this totally real and not a strawman 20-stone woman with vividly-dyed hair is complaining about it, therefore he's /ourguy/!

Christy42 · 29-10-2018 3:43pm

Odhinn wrote: »

New President of Brazil. A real beauty this one.

On Gay folk

“I would be incapable of loving a homosexual son. I’m not going to be a hypocrite: I’d rather my son died in an accident than showed up with some bloke with a moustache.” (June 2011)
“I won’t fight it or discriminate, but if I see two men kissing each other in the street, I’ll whack them.” (October 2002)
“We Brazilians don’t like homosexuals.” (2013)
“Are [gays] demigods? ... Just because someone has sex with his excretory organ, it doesn’t make him better than anyone else.” (February 2014)

“I don’t run the risk [of seeing my children date black women or being gay]. My children were very well raised.” (March 2011)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/jair-bolsonaro-brazil-tropical-trump-who-hankers-for-days-of-dictatorship?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR3nv-UBQWGd_U1FN3qBtpvSuK4k8BWtZ7_pvpgDU0jPFi4fwRGIEUpnZTI

In a 2011 interview with Jornal de Notícias, Bolsonaro linked homosexuality to pedophilia, claiming that "many of the children who are adopted by gay couples will be abused by these couples." He further argued that Brazil does not need legislation specifically targeting homophobia, because "most homosexuals are murdered by their respective pimps at hours when good citizens are already asleep."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Views_on_homosexuality

He's also pro torture and not gone on "black" people.

What are the odds he will get on well with Trump!

Odhinn · 29-10-2018 3:56pm

Christy42 wrote: »

What are the odds he will get on well with Trump!

O yeah. Shitehawks of a feather and all that.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-10-2018 9:21pm

He's not too well up on his biology. The penis is an excretory organ, the anus is not (as technically, food which exits the digestive tract never entered the body.)

recedite · 29-10-2018 11:26pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

He's not too well up on his biology. The penis is an excretory organ, the anus is not (as technically, food which exits the digestive tract never entered the body.)

Good point. However, this is just something that was written in the Guardian. We would have to revert to the original quote, which was presumably in Portuguese, before nitpicking too much.

Recedite The Flawless Shaper

PopePalpatine · 09-12-2018 8:13pm

You'd think poor Steve would have a slush fund to tap into.

robindch · 25-12-2018 12:39pm

Some hints for today.

https://twitter.com/Outfox_Holidays/status/1075445021208387584/video/1

robindch · 27-12-2018 10:22pm

Here are a few fun excerpts from Mike Pompeo, the US Secretary of State - the top US diplomat - from, I believe, 2015:

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/status/1078298857434501120

Mike Pompeo wrote:

We will continue to fight these battles, it is a never ending struggle... until the Rapture.

Mr Pompeo also rails against marriage equality, abortion, gay men and women, children's rights and other religions.

spacecoyote · 11-01-2019 10:09am

And this guy claims that he's not a racist

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/424688-steve-king-asks-how-terms-white-nationalist-and-white-supremacist-became

smacl · 02-05-2019 9:20am

And Florida introduces a law to let teacher carry guns, that'll really help with gun violence in schools. I'm guessing the remaining Christian brothers here are mad jealous. Nuns with guns, that's what we need Ted. :pac:

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0502/1046977-florida-bill-permits-teachers-to-carry-guns/

recedite · 02-05-2019 1:23pm

Lots of teachers already own guns, and know how to use them. But weren't allowed to bring them to school.
Its a bit simplistic to suggest that allowing them to bring their guns into school will make the school less safe. Its an insult to those teachers.

volchitsa · 02-05-2019 1:38pm

recedite wrote: »

Lots of teachers already own guns, and know how to use them. But weren't allowed to bring them to school.
Its a bit simplistic to suggest that allowing them to bring their guns into school will make the school less safe. Its an insult to those teachers.

Most deaths by guns in the US (other than gangland killings) happen accidentally or because someone else gets hold of the gun. It's inevitable that if guns are present in schools, there will be accidental shootings. So no, it's not simplistic or an insult to anyone, just a statement of fact.

recedite · 02-05-2019 2:29pm

volchitsa wrote: »

So no, it's not simplistic or an insult to anyone, just a statement of fact.

Its not "a statement of fact", its pure conjecture, which can easily be disproved by reference to recent events in comparable circumstances...

The off-duty Border Patrol agent and an Iraq War Army veteran helped stop a suspected gunman who had opened fire at Chabad of Poway on Saturday in what authorities praised as an "act of courage."
One person died and three more were injured in the hate-fueled attack during Passover services.
Stewart, 51, was in the back of the room when the shots rang out, he told reporters. The veteran said his military training kicked in.
"I ran to fire. That's what I did. I didn't plan it. I didn't think about it. It's just what I did," he said.
Stewart said he started yelling expletives at the gunmen, who stopped shooting when he heard Stewart's voice.
“Get down!” and “I’m going to kill you,” Stewart said he yelled.
According to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department, the suspected gunman fled the synagogue to a nearby vehicle. Stewart was in close pursuit.
"Stewart caught up to the vehicle as the suspect was about to drive away," the department said in a statement.
Stewart said he began punching the shooter's window when Morales told him to get out of the way.
"He yelled, 'Clear back, I have a gun,'" Stewart said. Then, Morales began firing...
The rabbi recalled telling Morales, “Please arm yourself when you are here. We never know when we’ll need it.”
"I don't think I'm a hero," Stewart said. "I just did what I did,"

Christy42 · 02-05-2019 3:13pm

recedite wrote: »

Its not "a statement of fact", its pure conjecture, which can easily be disproved by reference to recent events in comparable circumstances...

I am really, really confused as to how that proves that accidents don't happen with guns?

I am still confused as to how the answer fpr school shootings is to have gun battles in a school while kids are there. Not everyone is John McClain and people died even when John McClain was there.

Mark Hamill · 02-05-2019 3:20pm

recedite wrote: »

Its not "a statement of fact", its pure conjecture, which can easily be disproved by reference to recent events in comparable circumstances...

I don't see how that case of an off duty patrol man and former army vet (ie someone with military and police training with guns) implies teachers, as a group, would managed to avoid and accidents with guns.
Like, I could link to this article about a FBI agent who dropped his gun during a dance and when he picked it up it went off and hit someone in the crowd. Does that prove that no-one at all is safe with guns?

recedite · 02-05-2019 3:43pm

Christy42 wrote: »

I am really, really confused as to how that proves that accidents don't happen with guns?

Did I say that?
It proves that arming certain people can sometimes save lives.
Therefore it disproves the "statement of fact" that arming teachers would inevitably cost lives.

recedite · 02-05-2019 3:50pm

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I don't see how that case of an off duty patrol man and former army vet (ie someone with military and police training with guns) implies teachers, as a group, would managed to avoid and accidents with guns.

Teachers as a group? We're not talking about forcing teachers to carry arms, or arming little old ladies.

Spin it how you like, but you could equally ask how arming "jewish congregations as a group" could possibly save lives. Its not arming the group, its allowing certain qualified people to have access to arms while on the premises.

Plenty of teachers are in the National Guard, some may even have been to war zones. Others have their own private expertise related to sport or whatever.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-05-2019 4:55pm

recedite wrote: »

Did I say that?
It proves that arming certain people can sometimes save lives.
Therefore it disproves the "statement of fact" that arming teachers would inevitably cost lives.

This is even more dumb than the "they say cigs cause cancer, but my grandad smoked all his life and lived to be 100" thing.

It's just an anecdote which, even if true, proves nothing.

recedite · 02-05-2019 6:37pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's just an anecdote which, even if true, proves nothing.

Of course its true. It was all over the news last week.
Only one person died in what was probably intended (by the shooter) to be a mass shooting.
You can call it nothing, but I call it "lives saved".

And it was in Florida, the same state where they are moving to allow some teachers access to guns in the schools, which makes it even more relevant.

There have been lots of similar instances where crimes have been foiled by armed "good guys" who happened to be in the vicinity.

volchitsa · 02-05-2019 7:42pm

recedite wrote: »

Of course its true. It was all over the news last week.
Only one person died in what was probably intended (by the shooter) to be a mass shooting.
You can call it nothing, but I call it "lives saved".

And it was in Florida, the same state where they are moving to allow some teachers access to guns in the schools, which makes it even more relevant.

There have been lots of similar instances where crimes have been foiled by armed "good guys" who happened to be in the vicinity.

I hope you're not claiming that the number of lives saved is greater than the number of lives lost through gun violence every year?

Although even if that were the case, perhaps a better alternative whe making guns harder to get for everyone, so that all deaths from gun violence would drop substantially?

It's not that hard to get your head around, you know.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) claimed that, on average, one child died every three days in accidental incidents in the U.S. from 2000 to 2005.

That doesn't include suicide by the way - easy access to guns increases the suicide rate among children and teens.
And it doesn't include, like I said earlier, a distressed kid getting hold of a teacher's gun and going on a rampage.

Or indeed a member of staff. Workplace shootings are another danger in the US.

recedite · 02-05-2019 9:11pm

volchitsa wrote: »

And it doesn't include, like I said earlier, a distressed kid getting hold of a teacher's gun and going on a rampage.
Or indeed a member of staff. Workplace shootings are another danger in the US.

That could also happen, nobody knows the future.

But at least now you are acknowledging its not simplistic.

Christy42 · 03-05-2019 12:04am

recedite wrote: »

Did I say that?
It proves that arming certain people can sometimes save lives.
Therefore it disproves the "statement of fact" that arming teachers would inevitably cost lives.

The statement of fact was that they would make schools less safe. You have not disproven this (sorry about the misstatements, I found the post you quoted a little confusing).

Teachers need to prove that this will save lives.

I still see that story as lives lost due to poor gun control.

robindch · 03-05-2019 12:45pm

recedite wrote: »

There have been lots of similar instances where crimes have been foiled by armed "good guys" who happened to be in the vicinity.

Yes, there have been a few such cases. Not many though. And they are heavily outnumbered by cases where people have suffered injury or death from the broad availability of guns within society.

Haven't checked the figures for a while, but memory suggests that the risk of injury or death from gunfire is around five times higher in homes which have a gun over homes which do not have a gun (even after accounting for any injuries or deaths which might have been prevented by having a gun in the house and being able to find it and get it ready in time for it to be useful in preventing any further injury or death).

recedite · 03-05-2019 1:39pm

robindch wrote: »

Yes, there have been a few such cases. Not many though. And they are heavily outnumbered by cases where people have suffered injury or death from the broad availability of guns within society.

Haven't checked the figures for a while, but memory suggests that the risk of injury or death from gunfire is around five times higher in homes which have a gun over homes which do not have a gun (even after accounting for any injuries or deaths which might have been prevented by having a gun in the house and being able to find it and get it ready in time for it to be useful in preventing any further injury or death).

Maybe, but the specific issue we were discussing was the availability of guns to teachers inside schools, in the context of a broad availability of guns in wider society.

robindch · 03-05-2019 1:45pm

recedite wrote: »

Maybe, but the specific issue we were discussing was the availability of guns to teachers inside schools, in the context of a broad availability of guns in wider society.

The figures might vary a little, but the same logic applies in schools as it does in homes - more guns around the place means more gun-related injury and death.

recedite · 03-05-2019 2:15pm

Guns in schools would be kept in purpose-made securely locked gun cabinets, not just in the sock drawer.
Likewise guns kept at home in Ireland must be kept in a locked cabinet and fully registered, hence you never hear of toddlers getting hold of them.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-05-2019 7:12pm

In Ireland it also helps that shotguns and .22 rifles are hard enough to get hold of, pistols much more difficult to get hold of, assault rifles etc. are banned.

So, in the hypothetical 'shooter on campus' scenario how is the teacher going to get to the central locked gun cabinet without leaivng their class alone and entirely unprotected, and without putting themselves at risk? Or is there to be a locked gun cabinet in every classroom? If the teachers move from room to room are they to bring their guns with them between classes?

This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

Mark Hamill · 03-05-2019 9:58pm

recedite wrote: »

Its not arming the group, its allowing certain qualified people to have access to arms while on the premises.

Plenty of teachers are in the National Guard, some may even have been to war zones. Others have their own private expertise related to sport or whatever.

That is all empty speculation. All the qualification required is some generic gun training, not to have been on the National Guard or in a war.
Not to mention my previous example of the FBI agent who did something stupid while in posession of a gun, causing it to go off and hit a bystander, showing that even official training isn't perfect.

recedite wrote: »

Guns in schools would be kept in purpose-made securely locked gun cabinets, not just in the sock drawer.
Likewise guns kept at home in Ireland must be kept in a locked cabinet and fully registered, hence you never hear of toddlers getting hold of them.

Firstly, the law says they can carry guns, nothing about them having them locked in cabinets.
Secondly, minimum gun cabinet standards are actually quite low, to keep them cheap (thanks to vested interested). You can get a certified gun safe, large enough for a rifle, for less than €160 and light enough to carry with one hand.

smacl · 04-05-2019 9:40am

recedite wrote: »

Guns in schools would be kept in purpose-made securely locked gun cabinets, not just in the sock drawer.
Likewise guns kept at home in Ireland must be kept in a locked cabinet and fully registered, hence you never hear of toddlers getting hold of them.

So if the attacker was also throwing around hand-grenades, do you reckon hand-grenades should be provided for the staff? :pac:

Half-baked Republican Presidential Fruitcakes (and fellow confections)

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