Trackless Trams - Innovative solutions for sustainable cities.

I don't see any advantage this has over a decent spec BRT.

This isn't really autonomous, it has a driver, it is just driver assistance.

As for segregation, you can do that with BRT too, plenty of examples of fully segregated BRT's around the world. You just have to be willing to give up the road space to it. Something we struggle with in Dublin with the narrow streets.

A full charge only gives you 40km! That is very poor, we are starting to see EV buses that can operate all day on one charge, that is what is needed for EV buses to take off.

This just seems like a BRT fancied up a bit to try and sell it.

wassie wrote: »

Thats what was said when the Luas was first proposed - "just use Bus Corridors". Yet now we have a functional east-west & north-south service that users now could never imagine going back. Just takes a bit of imagination and ingenuity.

Don't connect me with nonsense like that, that isn't what I was suggesting.

Segregation is enforced by physically keeping cars out of a route. BRT can be badly spec'd in this regard or well spec'd. There are absolutely BRT routes around the world where the BRT's are completely segregated from the cars:





Note in the above pictures how the BRT lanes are physically separated from the road and cars can't access the BRT lane. That is what I meant by a high spec BRT.

As for your trackless trams, there really isn't anything special about them. They are just a BRT. They would require the same roadspace and forced segregation as the above pictured BRT. If you didn't have that separation, then cars could wonder into your "trackless tram" route no different then a bad spec'd BRT.

The issue with Dublin is the lack of necessary dedicated space for this sort of segregation on our narrow streets. If you are going to give this sort of dedicated street space, then I'm of the opinion you'd be better off dedicating it to Luas

Markcheese wrote: »

The big advantage over the Luas would be the ability to go around some obstacles, and easier to share some junctions /pinch points on the route with traffic,

I agree with most of what you say, but this is one bit I disagree with.

I use to think the same, but I've now come to the realisation that flexibility in such systems, in particular in Irelands political environment is a major disadvantage.

A BRT/Trackless Tram like the above are simply to easy for Irish people to ignore and for politicians to bend to local campaigning and suddenly you have the BRT/Trackless Tram route full of buses, taxis, cyclists, cars or the route redirected away from particular street onto less ideal routes.

It is too easy for them to be interfered with.

By comparison, IMO the beauty of Luas is that it is a big ass train on tracks, that simply can't be ignored or pushed out of the way or redirected once built. It has a real permanency and ends up having a big effect around it. You see regeneration of shops and buildings on and near the streets it runs and people opting to buy homes along it's line.

I don't think a BRT/Trackless tram has anywhere near the same effect, because it is too easy for it to be gone tomorrow.

Luas getting blocked is an argument for even higher segregation of Luas from traffic (more priority at junctions, rd light cameras, bollards separating Luas track from Road, removal of junctions with Metro, etc.), not for creating a more "flexible" tram that is forced onto different routes and even worse traffic.

The point is, where we have space for proper segregation, then we should be building Luas. It is a very proven technology, works well here and we have lots of experience with it.

What we don't need is even poorer solutions, with less segregation. We already know that it doesn't work.

I mean the main complaint people have about Luas is that in the core city center, we should have built both the Red and Green lines as undergrounds. So with even more priority and segregation (and cost), not a cheaper, poorer solution.

I don't think cost is a major issue for building new Luas lines. The issue is that we are running out of places with enough road space to put segregated lines. Maybe Lucan and a few extensions, but that is about it.

I think the way ahead for us in Dublin is pretty clear:
- Build Metrolink, DU and future fully segregated Metros
- Extend and expand the Luas where there is road space to do so.
- Make the most out of the rest of the bus network. BusConnects, dedicated bus lanes, off bus ticketing, multi door operations, zero driver ticketing, all that good stuff.

The above trackless tram system has no place in Dublin. It might do in Cork, Galway, etc. but even there I think full segregation is more important then what vehicle is used. Also the battery tech in it seems poor, too little range and too long a charge. That would need to improve substantially if it is to work IMO.

It is certainly an interesting technology and I hope it continues to develop. But I'd want to see it actually rolled out in a number of Chinese cities and maybe even a few European ones and actually used for a few years, before risking an unproven system like this.