The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

16-11-2018 03:50PM

It kind of is happening to Connor and additionally given his history I don't imagine his body will be able to stand up to it as long as some others

Foxtrol · 16-11-2018 04:57PM

billr67 wrote: »

Bell in his best year had 11 Touchdowns 8/9 Rushing and 3/2 receiving and his best rushing season was 9 TD's last year. Connor has 11 TD's already 10 rushing and 1 receiving and that's in only 9 games. He only needs 5 TD's to beat Franco Harris's single season rushing record and 6 to beat Willie Parkers combined season record. Ok when it comes to combined yardage Bell's record in 2014 will be very hard to ever beat but now that we have Ju Ju and McDonald there's no need to force feed the RB. Yes we have some tough games coming up but confidence at the moment is sky high.

TDs are simply a terrible metric to assess an RB, as TDs are completely situation dependent.

Per that logic Alex Collins and Isaiah Crowell are having better years and/or are superior to Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliott.

raze_them_all_ · 16-11-2018 05:07PM

When a team has to gameplan for you that's a good player

dfx- · 16-11-2018 09:43PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

TDs are simply a terrible metric to assess an RB, as TDs are completely situation dependent.

Per that logic Alex Collins and Isaiah Crowell are having better years and/or are superior to Saquon Barkley and Ezekiel Elliott.

Gurley and Bell each have four 100 yard rushing games in their career so far. Conner has that in the opening eight games this season...

Conner already has more 20yard+ runs than Bell had all last year...

eagle eye · 16-11-2018 09:51PM

If Bell had have come back I think he would be in a lot better position to get a really big contract but now I'm not so sure.

If I was a gm I'd be questioning his commitment now. When a player does this once you can't just trust him fully. You'd have to worry that he might sit out again if he wasn't happy over something.

I think it affects him badly in contract negotiations.

Still there seem to be lots of idiots running teams so he might get paid.

Also any team giving him a five year deal would be crazy. He turns 27 in February so you are only getting three seasons of him under 30 and we all know how many RB's fall off at that age.

Mr. Guappa · 16-11-2018 10:09PM

I don't think Bell left 14 million on the table without very strong wink/nod indications from a team or three that a suitable package would be on the table come next spring.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 16-11-2018 10:20PM

dfx- wrote: »

Gurley and Bell each have four 100 yard rushing games in their career so far. Conner has that in the opening eight games this season...

Conner already has more 20yard+ runs than Bell had all last year...

More terrible metrics :P

Foxtrol · 17-11-2018 02:21PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

More terrible metrics :P

It is great to be agreed with.

Foxtrol · 17-11-2018 02:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

If Bell had have come back I think he would be in a lot better position to get a really big contract but now I'm not so sure.

If I was a gm I'd be questioning his commitment now. When a player does this once you can't just trust him fully. You'd have to worry that he might sit out again if he wasn't happy over something.

I think it affects him badly in contract negotiations.

Still there seem to be lots of idiots running teams so he might get paid.

Also any team giving him a five year deal would be crazy. He turns 27 in February so you are only getting three seasons of him under 30 and we all know how many RB's fall off at that age.

Like Donald and Mack's commitment was questioned, they couldnt be trusted fully, and it badly affected their contract negotiations?

The length of the NFL contracts don't mean anything once they get past the guaranteed money. People get too caught up on the length of contracts and/or average salary when assessing deals.

eagle eye · 17-11-2018 10:21PM

Neither of them sat out a full season.

eagle eye · 17-11-2018 10:21PM

Foxtrol wrote:

Like Donald and Mack's commitment was questioned, they couldnt be trusted fully, and it badly affected their contract negotiations?

Neither of them sat out a full season.

Itssoeasy · 18-11-2018 01:27AM

I'm all for players in the NFL getting as much money as they can given the nature of the game and all that. My issue with the Bell situation is it's clear the steelers locker room expected him to be there at some point and he never showed up. Don't make it seem you'll turn up when you don't.

raze_them_all_ · 18-11-2018 08:46AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm all for players in the NFL getting as much money as they can given the nature of the game and all that. My issue with the Bell situation is it's clear the steelers locker room expected him to be there at some point and he never showed up. Don't make it seem you'll turn up when you don't.

He never did. The players thought he would because who would leave 14 million behind. He never said he'd be back

Christy42 · 18-11-2018 12:13PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Foxtrol wrote:

Like Donald and Mack's commitment was questioned, they couldnt be trusted fully, and it badly affected their contract negotiations?

Neither of them sat out a full season.

They got paid.

Itssoeasy · 18-11-2018 12:18PM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

He never did. The players thought he would because who would leave 14 million behind. He never said he'd be back

Well that's not the way I took it when the players were talking in the locker room when he didn't show up. I got the distinct impression he'd been in contact with some players and that's why they were annoyed.

raze_them_all_ · 18-11-2018 12:43PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well that's not the way I took it when the players were talking in the locker room when he didn't show up. I got the distinct impression he'd been in contact with some players and that's why they were annoyed.

Loads have literally said the most frustrating thing was he never talked to anyone

Foxtrol · 18-11-2018 12:54PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Neither of them sat out a full season.

They sat out until their team gave in just like Bell is.

eagle eye · 18-11-2018 01:23PM

They did but they didn't sit out a full season. It's completely different for a top professional to miss TC and preseason when he will keep himself in shape.
When you take it to the next level and sit out a full season then questions have to asked about commitment, about the likelihood that it might happen again.
You take a lot of hits over a season playing RB. When you sit out a season and then come back it's going to be tougher for a while to take them hits.
Looking at holdouts, Chris Johnson was never the same again after a lengthy sitout while waiting for a contract. There are plenty of examples of holdouts like John Riggins who was never as good after not playing for a full season.
I could compare it to players who've missed a season through injury and in a very high percentage of cases never been the same again. I won't do that as you'd argue that it was entirely down to the injury.

Foxtrol · 18-11-2018 03:01PM

eagle eye wrote: »

They did but they didn't sit out a full season. It's completely different for a top professional to miss TC and preseason when he will keep himself in shape.
When you take it to the next level and sit out a full season then questions have to asked about commitment, about the likelihood that it might happen again.
You take a lot of hits over a season playing RB. When you sit out a season and then come back it's going to be tougher for a while to take them hits.
Looking at holdouts, Chris Johnson was never the same again after a lengthy sitout while waiting for a contract. There are plenty of examples of holdouts like John Riggins who was never as good after not playing for a full season.
I could compare it to players who've missed a season through injury and in a very high percentage of cases never been the same again. I won't do that as you'd argue that it was entirely down to the injury.

Donald sat out preseason two years in a row and this year put out comment that he wasn't playing a down until he was paid, and didn't. Bell is the exact same situation, where he showed up last year after preseason but this year he said he likely wouldn't and followed through. The only difference between the two is that one team folded and the other didn't. We have no evidence that either Donald or Mack were going to eventually show up if their teams held out so I you're really grasping at straws when you try to differentiate the commitment of the three.

Whether sitting out a year impacts future performance is another topic totally separate to your 'commitment' point. Athletes in other sports routinely take breaks and it helps to extend their careers but who knows how it will work out in Bell's case.

Oat23 · 18-11-2018 04:19PM

I love the Browns.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1064180915679707138

jack presley · 18-11-2018 04:27PM

Donald Rumsfeld as DC too*

* may or may not be true.

eagle eye · 18-11-2018 04:42PM

Foxtrol wrote:

Whether sitting out a year impacts future performance is another topic totally separate to your 'commitment' point. Athletes in other sports routinely take breaks and it helps to extend their careers but who knows how it will work out in Bell's case.
Donald sat out preseason two years in a row and this year put out comment that he wasn't playing a down until he was paid, and didn't. Bell is the exact same situation, where he showed up last year after preseason but this year he said he likely wouldn't and followed through. The only difference between the two is that one team folded and the other didn't. We have no evidence that either Donald or Mack were going to eventually show up if their teams held out so I you're really grasping at straws when you try to differentiate the commitment of the three.

Fact is the two players you mentioned never sat out a season. This makes their cases completely different. What ifs don't count.
Also I'm just adding stuff which is important when considering what size and length of contract you would give somebody who has sat out a full season. There aren't any major success stories for anybody that sat out a long time.

dfx- · 18-11-2018 05:07PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well that's not the way I took it when the players were talking in the locker room when he didn't show up. I got the distinct impression he'd been in contact with some players and that's why they were annoyed.

There was a very clear change in tone from the Offensive Line after he didn't show up on the Wednesday before Week 1.

Pouncey in particular (player rep?). They were asked during training camp and in the build up and said nothing. After that point, they were openly pissed off.

Foxtrol · 18-11-2018 06:23PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Fact is the two players you mentioned never sat out a season. This makes their cases completely different. What ifs don't count.
Also I'm just adding stuff which is important when considering what size and length of contract you would give somebody who has sat out a full season. There aren't any major success stories for anybody that sat out a long time.

It is as simple as all 3 players sat out until they got what they wanted. I just don't see how you can say that one sitting out longer will 'badly' affect his negotiations due to raising commitment questions when the other 2 were rewarded with the biggest contracts ever in their positions.

At this stage we're talking around in circles. We won't know what he gets until the offseason and even then we won't know what had the biggest impacts on his deal, as there are plenty of much more valid reasons why he might not get as big a contract as he thinks - age, injury history, suspension history, wear and tear, the performance of Conner, general value of RB position.

I just find it frustrating when fans continue to trot out the tired sound bites of 'commitment', 'selfishness', 'not being a good teammate' etc to have a go at players whenever they look to get paid what they deserve or, even worse in this situation, some form of long term security. Fans rarely have a problem when teams use things in the CBA to strengthen their position against a player but once players leverages what is in the CBA agreement they're painted as the bad guys.

Foxtrol · 18-11-2018 06:29PM

dfx- wrote: »

There was a very clear change in tone from the Offensive Line after he didn't show up on the Wednesday before Week 1.

Pouncey in particular (player rep?). They were asked during training camp and in the build up and said nothing. After that point, they were openly pissed off.

Happy to be corrected but I can't find a quote from single player saying they spoke to Bell and he confirmed he'd be back for week 1. If they made an assumption he'd be back based on prior year then that's on them and the coaches/front office.

That crap from Pouncey etc is the reason why the NFL players have the worst contracts of the major US sports. The owners/NFL have done a masterful job on them.

Jolly Red Giant · 18-11-2018 08:02PM

Rumours coming out of Denver that Gary Kubiak is looking to go back to coaching as an OC.

mikemac2 · 18-11-2018 08:50PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Rumours coming out of Denver that Gary Kubiak is looking to go back to coaching as an OC.

Welcome back to Baltimore any day !

Christy42 · 18-11-2018 09:18PM

Uhh. You have to wonder how long Jaguars can go with Bortles. Defense plays lights out and the Offense does nothing with it.

eagle eye · 18-11-2018 10:49PM

Yeah I get that but I'm not just trotting out sound bites. I don't do sound bites but I understand it can sound like that sometimes. You'll note I never mentioned anything about being a good/bad teammate.
Commitment is a much more important thing to me though.
When a guy decides to sit out a full season you have to question that. The reasons being that he is making it clear that it's all about money for him now. When it's all about the money you have to wonder if the guy will give it has all or will he turn into the type that will be more interested in protecting himself to elongate his career.
There have been plenty of sitouts which have went all the way through OTA's, TC and the preseason and that's fine but when you start to miss regular season games it becomes a problem, when it becomes a full season it raises these questions.

brinty · 19-11-2018 01:09AM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Rumours coming out of Denver that Gary Kubiak is looking to go back to coaching as an OC.

He’d be welcome in Dallas
Anything would be better than Scott linehan

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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