World Championship match Carlsen v Caruana

Tim Harding · 09-11-2018 12:52am #1

FIDE on Twitter says Magnus Carlsen won the draw for colours and has opted for BLACK in Game 1 which starts 1500 GMT tomorrow (today when most of you read this), Friday 9 November, in London.

12-game match with possible rapid/blitz tiebreak if needed.
Colours reverse half-way so Magnus will have this colour sequence:

BW BW BW WB WB WB WB

If I remember rightly, this is the opposite of what he had in the Karjakin match two years ago.

Maybe he thinks the double White in the middle is an advantage or just reckons that the first game is usually drawn in such matches (not always!) and doesn't want to waste a White.

See some of you at Buswell's tomorrow afternoon?

sodacat11 · 09-11-2018 9:27am

It will be a farce if the world champion at classical chess ends up being decided by a rapid or blitz game.They may as well play table tennis or a game of draughts to decide the title. I know that a match can't go on indefinitely but with the prestige and the money involved surely after the first twelve games being tied the players could play two games a day for another week without any rest days to decide the winner and if then it was still level the undefeated champion should retain his title.

Pete Morriss · 09-11-2018 1:19pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

FIDE on Twitter says Magnus Carlsen won the draw for colours and has opted for BLACK in Game 1 … [my emphasis - PM]

Is this correct? I thought that normally the players draw for colours, rather than for the choice of colours. The twitter report is ambiguous: "Magnus Carlsen chose Black pieces for the first game in the Match", which could mean either. The accompanying picture shows him holding a black chess piece, which would seem to rather suggest that he chose the piece that happened to be black. Does anybody know any further information?

Tim Harding · 09-11-2018 1:58pm

You may be right. It could become clearer when the commentary starts.

sodacat11 · 09-11-2018 11:02pm

That was one hell of a game to start the match!! I found it really difficult to predict a lot of the moves. It must have taken a lot out of both players, it will be interesting to see if they are up for another titanic struggle again tomorrow.

Joedryan · 10-11-2018 12:17am

Ol Magnus has missed a trick there somewhere. His handling of the Rossolimo as Black was immense though.

I wonder if there was a press conference afterwards and if he turned up?

Tim Harding · 11-11-2018 12:51am

Comfortable hold with Black in game 2 for Caruana, even nominally better in the final phase. Magnus avoided the Petroff but it didn't do him any good. Both players have repair jobs to do on their White openings so we may see a switch in games 3 and 4.

No game Sunday but there will be six rapid/blitz playoffs in the Women's championship in the morning.

Ficheall · 11-11-2018 10:47am

https://twitter.com/ChessMike/status/1061299966319251456

brilliantboy · 11-11-2018 12:30pm

Ficheall wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ChessMike/status/1061299966319251456

Also

https://twitter.com/photochess/status/1061194699266899968

Bunch of crooks

Tim Harding · 11-11-2018 1:16pm

I think the new regime Dvorkovich, Nigel Short et. al. are hoping this event will be the greatest possible disaster to optimise FIDE's case for breaking the AGON contract, so all this is good news for them (and ultimately for all chess fans worldwide).
Tough on the ticket holders though.

Joedryan · 12-11-2018 12:29am

Surely the new regime are in charge now and can do something?

It was great to at last get shot of the ex dictator Kirsan, who was responsible for far worse than chess corruption unfortunately. How he lasted so long in FIDE is a testament to the incompetence and blindless of chess federations all over the world. Funny enough given the news in Saudi Arabia lately, finally maybe journalists cannot be just murdered to shut them up?

But now surely some of this farcical stuff can come to an end?

Joedryan · 25-11-2018 1:21am

Anybody following the match?

Caruana has been very impressive so far.

sodacat11 · 25-11-2018 10:13am

Joedryan wrote: »

Anybody following the match?

Caruana has been very impressive so far.

Agreed. I think that the games have been good despite all being drawn. It all descends into farce though if it comes down to a blitz decider. Blitz is no way to decide a world champion.

D9Male · 25-11-2018 10:17am

Yes indeed. Yesterday wasn't an exciting game, but there have been at least five very entertaining games.

Caruana seems to be exceptionally well prepared.

Tim Harding · 25-11-2018 10:52am

Joedryan wrote: »

Anybody following the match?

Caruana has been very impressive so far.

Unfortunately times of the games are clashing with when we play in the World Seniors, so I have seen almost nothing live after the first couple of games and very little of the post-game analyses.

Maybe there will be some quick draws tomorrow if many players want to watch Game 12.

I would like to see Caruana win as I think it's time for a change, but a rapid/blitz showdown seems more likely. Though it's true there has never been a World Championship match with no decisive game in regular time.

brilliantboy · 25-11-2018 12:22pm

I'd have to agree with sodacat, Blitz is no way to decide a World Championship match and Armageddon is an absurd way to decide anything. At that stage you may as well flip a coin.

I was about to suggest a better way would be Champion retains in case of a drawn match, with the Challenger granted a single rematch to be played the following year. But that would probably just encourage the players to play for the draw so they can get paid twice over :rolleyes:

mikhail · 25-11-2018 12:46pm

Hard fought or not, 11 straight draws is pathetic. Scrap this all and let's decide the World Champion by double round robin tournament.

sodacat11 · 26-11-2018 12:55pm

mikhail wrote: »

Hard fought or not, 11 straight draws is pathetic. Scrap this all and let's decide the World Champion by double round robin tournament.

I never understand what the problem is with draws. Some of the most enjoyable games I've ever played or seen have ended in draws. A draw is a logical conclusion to two evenly matched opponents slugging it out.
Obviously in the context of a world championship draws are not decisive enough therefore maybe a ten or twelve player double round robin would be a better way to decide the champion but elite all play alls are very commonplace these days and perhaps the world championship should be a more unique event.
I'd keep the match format but if after say twelve games the match was level I would make them play two games a day and introduce a rule that the players cannot play the same first move as White or Black that they have used in any previous game and the next player to win a game wins the match.

D9Male · 26-11-2018 1:19pm

I think that is too convoluted. I would prefer to increase the length of the match to 18 or 24 games, or increase the number of moves in the first time control to 50 moves (or both).

I don't like restrictions on moves.

sodacat11 · 26-11-2018 6:36pm

D9Male wrote: »

I think that is too convoluted. I would prefer to increase the length of the match to 18 or 24 games, or increase the number of moves in the first time control to 50 moves (or both).

I don't like restrictions on moves.

The problem with lengthening the match is that we could end up in Kasparov v Karpov scenario where the match goes on for months.

Great game today , now after 29 moves any result is still possible.

D9Male · 26-11-2018 6:57pm

It is hard to see Carlsen lose. Caruana seems to be playing spooked.

Tim Harding · 26-11-2018 7:08pm

D9Male wrote: »

It is hard to see Carlsen lose. Caruana seems to be playing spooked.

Carlsen also spooked; offered draw in favourable position with more time on the clock. So 12 draws and rapid play-off Wednesday. Let's hope it doesn't go to blitz.

sodacat11 · 26-11-2018 8:43pm

At least Caruana tried to win the final game. Carlsen chickened out with that draw offer, he could easily have played on and tried to win with little risk of losing.

Joedryan · 26-11-2018 10:02pm

Its amazing how Carlsen is so much afraid of the last rd classical game, he did the same thing against Karjakin, just agreeing a draw with White in 20 mins after hoovering the pieces.

Maybe its logical, he just gets it in his head that he cannot afford to risk losing his title in a one off game, even if he is better. Its like everything we know about Carlsen goes out the window in those circumstances.

On the World ch matches Carlsen is on record himself as saying 16 or 18 games would be preferable, and its hard to disagree with that.

12 games is ludicrous for a World ch match.

sodacat11 · 27-11-2018 11:04am

Joedryan wrote: »

Its amazing how Carlsen is so much afraid of the last rd classical game, he did the same thing against Karjakin, just agreeing a draw with White in 20 mins after hoovering the pieces.

Maybe its logical, he just gets it in his head that he cannot afford to risk losing his title in a one off game, even if he is better. Its like everything we know about Carlsen goes out the window in those circumstances.

On the World ch matches Carlsen is on record himself as saying 16 or 18 games would be preferable, and its hard to disagree with that.

12 games is ludicrous for a World ch match.

It would serve Carlsen right if his little plan backfires and he ends up losing the rapid play off. It is farcical that we can't get decisive results in the classical chess matches. They get paid enough so I'd make them earn it by playing 24 games over three weeks instead of 12 as they do now. Two games per day shouldn't be beyond them.

cdeb · 27-11-2018 6:34pm

Two games a day seems unnecessary for a world title match; you want prep to be part of the game to ensure the best winner.

But I agree with your earlier suggestion of a 14-game tournament over the same timeframe of the current one, with Carlsen the winner in the event of a 7-7 draw.

sodacat11 · 27-11-2018 6:59pm

cdeb wrote: »

Two games a day seems unnecessary for a world title match; you want prep to be part of the game to ensure the best winner.

But I agree with your earlier suggestion of a 14-game tournament over the same timeframe of the current one, with Carlsen the winner in the event of a 7-7 draw.

The whole point of the two games a day is to reduce/eliminate preparation most of which is done by a team of seconds anyway. The title should go to the best player who can create at the board not the guy who is good at doing his homework or who has the best team. Preparation is far too big a part of modern chess even among amateurs.

Joedryan · 27-11-2018 7:01pm

What about this for an idea? Just came to me so may be complete rubbish:

14 game match.
If a draw then keep playing "sudden death" classical games, but with a twist, every game drawn the classical time limit decreases by 10 mins on each side.
If it goes all the way down to rapid (30 mins each) then no more decrease, we keep going until we get a winner.

zeitnot · 27-11-2018 7:16pm

Joedryan wrote: »

What about this for an idea? Just came to me so may be complete rubbish:

14 game match.
If a draw then keep playing "sudden death" classical games, but with a twist, every game drawn the classical time limit decreases by 10 mins on each side.
If it goes all the way down to rapid (30 mins each) then no more decrease, we keep going until we get a winner.

Too complicated. 16-game match, champion retains title in case of a tie.

Forget the silly extra rest day before the final game. Better still, rest days after games 4, 8, and 12 only.

The only thing I'd add is fixing colours so that the challenger has White in the last game: a small benefit to make up for giving the champion draw odds.

Kings Rook · 27-11-2018 7:37pm

Hi
Here’s an idea
15 game match divided into 3 sets of 5
Classical games. If set drawn rapid/blitz
tiebreak ensues.
Victor is first to 2 sets.
Format might encourage players to take
more risks too.
Either way format needs to change as
draw sequences becoming tedious

Joedryan · 27-11-2018 7:51pm

zeitnot wrote: »

Too complicated. 16-game match, champion retains title in case of a tie.

Forget the silly extra rest day before the final game. Better still, rest days after games 4, 8, and 12 only.

The only thing I'd add is fixing colours so that the challenger has White in the last game: a small benefit to make up for giving the champion draw odds.

What I was aiming for in my admittedly madcap idea was to avoid a situation where the last game of the match the champ aims to wrap it up with a draw. Although maybe current circumstances are unique given Carlsen is so confident in rapid and blitz.

Whatever new solution I have always maintained, and stand by it, that 12 games is simply too short.

World Championship match Carlsen v Caruana

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