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Dublin marathon 2019. What to do now?

  • 03-11-2018 2:31pm
    #1
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,
    Thinking of running Dublin next year.
    Ran Belfast about 6 years ago, no marathons since then. Was aiming for 3.30 but blew up after reaching the half way on target and literally hobbled home in 4 hours.
    Currently running about 25 to 45 km a week. Mostly at around 5 to 5.30 per kilometre.
    Could reasonably comfortably run a half tomorrow in about 1hr 50. Have run 1.34 in the distant past for a half.
    Looking for a bit of advice on what to do for the next few months with the marathon goal in mind. And when is the optimum time to start training for the marathon?
    Would it be mad to start building the mileage now and sustain weekly long runs of 25 odd km for a while?
    Do I work away on mid length runs (up to about 20km) for the moment and maintain current fitness with the balance of runs being shorter ones around 6to 8 km during the week?
    It's a long way away, but I reckon if I put in the groundwork now with sensible, sustainable training I should be able to arrive at the marathon ready to give it a good go. Would be aiming for 3.30, because the brother has done that, and sibling rivalry is a great motivator!
    Cheers


«1

Comments

  • #2
    chrismean
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭chrismean


    Most plans are around 18 weeks.
    You can afford to have some variety now with a year to go.
    I would suggest you could keep up that mileage and work on some shorter distance stuff - 5 and 10km over the winter, if you find that fun. Pick a half marathon in the early work towards.


  • #3
    chrismean
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭chrismean


    Most plans are around 18 weeks.
    You can afford to have some variety now with a year to go.
    I would suggest you could keep up that mileage and work on some shorter distance stuff - 5 and 10km over the winter, if you find that fun. Pick a half marathon in the early work towards.


  • #4
    chrismean
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭chrismean


    Most plans are around 18 weeks.
    You can afford to have some variety now with a year to go.
    I would suggest you could keep up that mileage and work on some shorter distance stuff - 5 and 10km over the winter, if you find that fun. Pick a half marathon in the early New Year to work towards.


  • #5
    EC1000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    Where are you based? Why not target a half or 10 mile (or both) in the spring, build some speed and work from there? Plenty of half or 10 mile plans that you could start looking at now.


  • #6
    Brusna
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Brusna


    oinkely wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Thinking of running Dublin next year.
    Ran Belfast about 6 years ago, no marathons since then. Was aiming for 3.30 but blew up after reaching the half way on target and literally hobbled home in 4 hours.
    Currently running about 25 to 45 km a week. Mostly at around 5 to 5.30 per kilometre.
    Could reasonably comfortably run a half tomorrow in about 1hr 50. Have run 1.34 in the distant past for a half.
    Looking for a bit of advice on what to do for the next few months with the marathon goal in mind. And when is the optimum time to start training for the marathon?
    Would it be mad to start building the mileage now and sustain weekly long runs of 25 odd km for a while?
    Do I work away on mid length runs (up to about 20km) for the moment and maintain current fitness with the balance of runs being shorter ones around 6to 8 km during the week?
    It's a long way away, but I reckon if I put in the groundwork now with sensible, sustainable training I should be able to arrive at the marathon ready to give it a good go. Would be aiming for 3.30, because the brother has done that, and sibling rivalry is a great motivator!
    Cheers

    To answer your questions:
    Q1: it would seem 16 to 18 weeks out is the optimum time to start training for a marathon.
    Q2: No, wouldn’t be mad at all, it would make sense to start building a base now.
    Q3: yeah that would be fine as well.

    Advice: you want to run a 3:30 marathon in a years time but you are already running at that or close to that pace on all your runs now. So you are either running too hard now or your target is too low. If the pace you are running at now is genuinely easy then 3:30 will come no problem, if not, then you will be pushing yourself too hard and there will be a higher chance of getting injured or sick and that will set you back. Figure out what is genuinely easy, do 80% of your running at that pace and you will achieve your goal.


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  • #7
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Brusna wrote: »
    To answer your questions:
    Q1: it would seem 16 to 18 weeks out is the optimum time to start training for a marathon.
    Q2: No, wouldn’t be mad at all, it would make sense to start building a base now.
    Q3: yeah that would be fine as well.

    Advice: you want to run a 3:30 marathon in a years time but you are already running at that or close to that pace on all your runs now. So you are either running too hard now or your target is too low. If the pace you are running at now is genuinely easy then 3:30 will come no problem, if not, then you will be pushing yourself too hard and there will be a higher chance of getting injured or sick and that will set you back. Figure out what is genuinely easy, do 80% of your running at that pace and you will achieve your goal.

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'd say that 5min /km is my go to pace. Can knock out up to about 15 km at that pretty reliably. It's not holding a conversation easy, but is not too bad. When I go over the 15km I start to show down a bit, to maybe 5.15 to 5.30, depending on the terrain.

    I guess I'm hoping that if I start the work now, then when an actual 18 week plan starts, I'll be ok if I miss a long run, or a week for whatever reason, that I'll still be ready.

    I like the plan to look at a half in the new year, and work towards that for the moment.

    I'll be investigating this now.


  • #8
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    oinkely wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'd say that 5min /km is my go to pace. Can knock out up to about 15 km at that pretty reliably. It's not holding a conversation easy, but is not too bad. When I go over the 15km I start to show down a bit, to maybe 5.15 to 5.30, depending on the terrain.

    I guess I'm hoping that if I start the work now, then when an actual 18 week plan starts, I'll be ok if I miss a long run, or a week for whatever reason, that I'll still be ready.

    I like the plan to look at a half in the new year, and work towards that for the moment.

    I'll be investigating this now.

    Your easy runs should be "holding a conversation" easy. As was said above 80% of your runs should be at this easy effort. The type of running you describe is getting closer to tempo running than easy running.


  • #9
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    oinkely wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'd say that 5min /km is my go to pace
    Much, much too hard. That's marathon race pace for a 3:30. Your easy pace (~80% of your running) should be more like 6:00/km.

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  • #10
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    oinkely wrote: »
    Could reasonably comfortably run a half tomorrow in about 1hr 50.
    oinkely wrote: »
    I'd say that 5min /km is my go to pace.

    to echo the others, your regular running pace should not be faster than you think you could run a half marathon.

    Join a club or get a coach would be two best options.
    or pick a medium-term race goal and follow a training plan for that race distance


  • #11
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Again, thanks for the advice. Anyone know a good coach in the North Wicklow, south Dublin area? Any idea what sort of money one needs to budget for a coaching service?

    To be honest I'll find it hard to run 80% of the time at much slower than 5.15 to 5.30. so maybe I need to raise my goals vis a vis marathon pace and aim for faster than 3.30.

    Or maybe I just need to run slower to get faster!

    I do an interval type session once a week or every two weeks where I would aim for 1km fast, one km easy (or rest) and I'd be knocking out 4.15 to 4.35 per km for the fast reps, depending on the day. I'd usually do about 5 of them. A few years back these would have been at 3.45 pace, but can't seem to find that speed at the moment.


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  • #12
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    oinkely wrote: »
    Again, thanks for the advice. Anyone know a good coach in the North Wicklow, south Dublin area? Any idea what sort of money one needs to budget for a coaching service?

    To be honest I'll find it hard to run 80% of the time at much slower than 5.15 to 5.30. so maybe I need to raise my goals vis a vis marathon pace and aim for faster than 3.30.

    Or maybe I just need to run slower to get faster!

    I do an interval type session once a week or every two weeks where I would aim for 1km fast, one km easy (or rest) and I'd be knocking out 4.15 to 4.35 per km for the fast reps, depending on the day. I'd usually do about 5 of them. A few years back these would have been at 3.45 pace, but can't seem to find that speed at the moment.

    Maybe you can't hammer out the fast stuff because you're not recovered from the supposedly easy days. A one minute difference between fast intervals and easy runs is too small in my opinion.

    The think about finding it hard to slow down is just about breaking a habit. You can easily run slower...it's not difficult.


  • #13
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    oinkely wrote: »
    Again, thanks for the advice. Anyone know a good coach in the North Wicklow, south Dublin area?

    I don't know how busy he is right now, but a lot of people on here are coached by Testostercone
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057917608

    Gary O'Hanlon also does a lot of coaching

    I think joining a club is an even better option, even if you only make it to some sessions


  • #14
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    RayCun wrote: »
    I don't know how busy he is right now, but a lot of people on here are coached by Testostercone
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057917608

    Gary O'Hanlon also does a lot of coaching

    I think joining a club is an even better option, even if you only make it to some sessions

    Thanks for the advice.

    Was a member of a club, and was on the committee etc for a good few years. Once child number two came along time for running with the club got hammered so haven't been with them for about 7 years. Might see if I can arrange with my wife to get back to it, but realistically is probably not going to work well with the training times being right at getting kids to bed time! I mostly run at lunch time in work or in the evening after the kids are in bed, which doesn't match up with club times very well.

    I will get in touch with the people you recommend.


  • #15
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I'd be trying to get back to the club, in your position, even for just one evening a week


  • #16
    coogy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    oinkely wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice.

    Was a member of a club, and was on the committee etc for a good few years. Once child number two came along time for running with the club got hammered so haven't been with them for about 7 years. Might see if I can arrange with my wife to get back to it, but realistically is probably not going to work well with the training times being right at getting kids to bed time! I mostly run at lunch time in work or in the evening after the kids are in bed, which doesn't match up with club times very well.

    I will get in touch with the people you recommend.



    I always wondered if it was a challenge being a member of a running club and trying to adapt your own training plan around their sessions?


  • #17
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    coogy wrote: »
    I always wondered if it was a challenge being a member of a running club and trying to adapt your own training plan around their sessions?

    I think the disadvantage of not doing the perfect session for you (if you knew what that was) is outweighed by the advantage of training in a group.


  • #18
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    RayCun wrote:
    I think the disadvantage of not doing the perfect session for you (if you knew what that was) is outweighed by the advantage of training in a group.

    Theres also an argument to be made for not doing every session religiously with the club. Depends on the club. Some run very similar sessions week in week out. I think the disadvantage of doing that every week seriously outweighs the advantage of running in a group.


  • #19
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    We do a tempo run every weekend, but there is a lot of variety in the midweek sessions


  • #20
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    RayCun wrote:
    We do a tempo run every weekend, but there is a lot of variety in the midweek sessions

    Some clubs are definitely better than others for sure.


  • #21
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    pac_man wrote: »
    Your goal is basically a year away and won't feel tangible at the moment. That can have it's drawbacks and can easily lead to a loss in motivation.

    You need to split that goal into mini goals. You say your range for your weekly mileage is 25-45 km. If I was you, my first mini goal would be to develop some consistency. Depending on you current level of fitness, say to yourself that you want to reach the upper end of your range (and maybe extend it out to 50km) for a good few weeks. Hold at the upper end of your range and do that week in week out for a good few weeks. All of this should be easy running.

    As others have mentioned, easy runs should feel easy.If your anyway breathless during them runs,then your running them too hard. I personally wouldn't get too caught up on paces, what might feel easy one day might not necessarily feel easy on another day. You just need to be completely honest with yourself and have a bit of discipline when it comes to assessing what feels easy and running by feel. If your not honest with yourself then it's a pointless exercise and you'll end doing the runs too fast.


    Typically,people doing their easy runs at 8 min mile wouldn't be aiming for a 3:30 marathon. I'd forget about that target for the moment, a year is a long time in running and your fitness and goals can easily change. See how you get on with just trying to be a bit consistent over the next while .

    Decided to hold off on the coach for a while and go with this advice. Kicked the pace back to easy, conversation easy, pace and going to aim for consistent 40 to 50 km a week until Christmas.

    The easy pace is working out at between 5.25 and 5.50 per km depending on the route and length of the run. Not sure what that means on terms of marathon pace zones but sure I can work that out in the new year.

    All advice greatfully received.


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  • #22
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    oinkely wrote: »
    Decided to hold off on the coach for a while and go with this advice. Kicked the pace back to easy, conversation easy, pace and going to aim for consistent 40 to 50 km a week until Christmas.

    The easy pace is working out at between 5.25 and 5.50 per km depending on the route and length of the run. Not sure what that means on terms of marathon pace zones but sure I can work that out in the new year.

    All advice greatfully received.

    IMO that's a easy steady pace. How does it compare with shorter faster runs though

    Like would you do parkruns at 22 min type pace?


  • #23
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    IMO that's a easy steady pace. How does it compare with shorter faster runs though

    Like would you do parkruns at 22 min type pace?

    Id probably do a park run in about 22 minutes . Possibly a bit quicker , maybe down as low as 21. That would be on a good day.


  • #24
    Testosterscone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Testosterscone


    Only seeing this thread now but there is a good thread a while back on this stuff.

    Good thread on it here

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106155793

    You have plenty of time. Be patient and trust the process build day by day, week by week. You don't need to be smashing training at this stage but just be consistent and keep moving forward and you will surprise yourself.


  • #25
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    oinkely wrote: »
    Id probably do a park run in about 22 minutes . Possibly a bit quicker , maybe down as low as 21. That would be on a good day.

    If you can do 10km in 45-48 then 5.40/km over a longer run is steady/comfortable pace. That's about where I am at too


  • #26
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Testosterscone wrote: »
    Only seeing this thread now but there is a good thread a while back on this stuff.

    Good thread on it here

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106155793

    You have plenty of time. Be patient and trust the process build day by day, week by week. You don't need to be smashing training at this stage but just be consistent and keep moving forward and you will surprise yourself.

    Just read that entire thread.

    Going to add strides into a few of my way runs now.

    And I assume a stride is a short south of faster running during the session?

    Just to be sure.


  • #27
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    If you can do 10km in 45-48 then 5.40/km over a longer run is steady/comfortable pace. That's about where I am at too

    Probably be closer to the 47/48 for a 10 km at the moment. But that would be comfortable, perhaps in a race situation could be under the 45.


  • #28
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    oinkely wrote:
    Probably be closer to the 47/48 for a 10 km at the moment. But that would be comfortable, perhaps in a race situation could be under the 45.

    Don't overthink the pace. Easy is a feeling not a pace. Some days will be slower than others. The main thing is it feels easy. If easy on some days is 6min /km so be it!


  • #29
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    So week one of easy running underway.
    13.5 km on Sunday average about 5.45 per km.
    5.8 km on Monday average about 5.40 per km.
    Break Tuesday as work was busy.
    10km today average 5.30 per km, but threw in 5 lots of 150 to 200 metre pick ups which were around 6/10 for effort. Without the strides would have been around 5.40.

    All has felt nice and easy, if I was running with someone I could easily chat away.


  • #30
    oinkely
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Still sticking with easy running.
    Week of the 12th of November was 45 km over 4 days at an average of 10.7 km/h which is around 5.40 per km.

    Week of the 19th was 58 km at about the same average pace. This was over 5 days with a comfortable 20 km on Saturday.

    Another week of easy started today with 6 km at 5.30 per km.

    Getting used to the slower pace so going to keep at this till Christmas, aiming for 50 plus km per week.


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  • #31
    ariana`
    Registered Users Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭ariana`


    oinkely wrote: »
    Still sticking with easy running.
    Week of the 12th of November was 45 km over 4 days at an average of 10.7 km/h which is around 5.40 per km.

    Week of the 19th was 58 km at about the same average pace. This was over 5 days with a comfortable 20 km on Saturday.

    Another week of easy started today with 6 km at 5.30 per km.

    Getting used to the slower pace so going to keep at this till Christmas, aiming for 50 plus km per week.

    You should think about setting up a training log :)


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