Planning permission up for greenway from Youghal to Midleton

deRanged · 18-09-2018 9:20am #1

Notices are up around Midleton train station for planning permission for a greenway from Midleton to Youghal, with parking at all disused stations. I think it's a brilliant idea.

whisky_galore · 18-09-2018 1:09pm

Not really. Better if it was a rail line with all the tailbacks but the people of Youghal couldn't care less either way.
Flat and boring landscape by and large.
The PP is hardly surprising given our anti rail attitude here, in govt, public and irish rail themselves.

mordeith · 18-09-2018 1:26pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Not really. Better if it was a rail line with all the tailbacks but the people of Youghal couldn't care less either way.
Flat and boring landscape by and large.
The PP is hardly surprising given our anti rail attitude here, in govt, public and irish rail themselves.

Rail line would make no difference to the traffic. Irish people are welded to their cars. Given how badly run Irish Rail seems to be they would make a bags of it anyway. The prices would be far too expensive to make it an attractive option. Especially as most of the traffic heading from the east to Cork is going through the tunnel in the mornings. Not much point getting a train to town only to have to get a non existent bus to your place of work.
Greenway will be utilized well I would hope.

whisky_galore · 18-09-2018 1:40pm

Well. Gonna get hammered by the EU for failing to meet emissions levels but hey you can drive your SUV with your 2.5 kids and bikes on board and have a nice little cycle for yourselves and pretend you're doing good.

mordeith · 18-09-2018 1:54pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Well. Gonna get hammered by the EU for failing to meet emissions levels but hey you can drive your SUV with your 2.5 kids and bikes on board and have a nice little cycle for yourselves and pretend you're doing good.

I actually drive an electric car so you can remove the 'you' and direct your diatribe elsewhere.

pukeko · 18-09-2018 2:39pm

It doesn't eliminate the opportunity to open the rail line in the future anyway. Utilizing the rail line now for local communities (and tourism) to enjoy cycling\walking\running makes the most sense. Well done Cork Co Co. Fantastic news for East Cork.

deRanged · 18-09-2018 3:15pm

tons more info on the Cork Co Co website.

There are calls to reopen the line, or to make a combined rail line and greenway. I can't see either of those things happening, but creating a greenway will be good for all of the communities along the greenway.

chalkitdown1 · 18-09-2018 4:43pm

Hopefully they do as good a job as the one from Dungarvan to Waterford.

If they could somehow then connect Youghal to the one in Dungarvan that would be SOME cycle.

questionmark? · 18-09-2018 11:36pm

Fantastic idea. Lets hope this makes progress like Dungarven and doesn't get held up like we have seen in Kerry. Any idea of timescale OP?

Bacchus · 19-09-2018 12:15pm

I'm conflicted by this. On the one hand it will open up a fantastic greenway within a short drive/cycle from where I live, which will have an obvious impact on our family life. The fact is, I would never let my children cycle on the public roads in east Cork, so this is a great outlet for that activity.

On the other hand, as mentioned, we need to be proactive about getting cars off the road. An active railline going from Youghal into the heart of Cork City would be amazing and would be an attractive option for commuters. Sure, you can say IR could charge crazy prices or make a mess of the schedules, but those things can be addressed over time. Far easier than realizing in 10-15 years that we need to a find a new route for a rail line to address emissions and traffic congestion.

So yeah, I've mixed feelings about it but I am looking forward to the greenway itself.

pukeko · 19-09-2018 12:27pm

Bacchus wrote: »

I'm conflicted by this. On the one hand it will open up a fantastic greenway within a short drive/cycle from where I live, which will have an obvious impact on our family life. The fact is, I would never let my children cycle on the public roads in east Cork, so this is a great outlet for that activity.

On the other hand, as mentioned, we need to be proactive about getting cars off the road. An active railline going from Youghal into the heart of Cork City would be amazing and would be an attractive option for commuters. Sure, you can say IR could charge crazy prices or make a mess of the schedules, but those things can be addressed over time. Far easier than realizing in 10-15 years that we need to a find a new route for a rail line to address emissions and traffic congestion.

So yeah, I've mixed feelings about it but I am looking forward to the greenway itself.

This paragraph is from the planning report available online:

"The status of the Midleton to Youghal railway is disused. The railway property is operated by Iarnrod Eireann and ownership is vested in Coras Iompair Eireann. Permission to develop, maintain and manage the proposed greenway by Cork County Council will be subject to a licence from Coras Iompair Eireann. The ownership status of the property will therefore remain unchanged and this
arrangement will provide for the protection of the railway corridor for future rail use and facilitate community and economic gain in the interim."

If there is a future requirement for a rail line then it will still be available. In fact, leaving the line unused and derelict will put it at greater risk of never being available again.

The Greenway project is a no-brainer in my opinion and provides the best public use of this land currently.

Outkast_IRE · 19-09-2018 12:32pm

Rather see a rail line developed and try and grow the commuter town / countryside option for city centre workers . We will never get it back from Greenway if this goes ahead, have we learned nothing from the lines closed to West cork etc. If you turn the land over to any other use you will not get it back.

This should be earmarked for redevelopment and try and push for some growth in the towns along the line.

deRanged · 19-09-2018 2:10pm

I live close to the train station in Midleton, so a greenway would be a fantastic amenity for me. It would be a brilliant safe environment to cycle or walk with my family. I am somewhat biased in that respect. I do use the train to get to work every day, so I'm also pro train.

Reopening the train line would presumably mean more trains between Midleton to Cork so might well mean an increase in frequency.

The existing trains are jammed at peak times, but Irish Rail don't put on extra carriages. They are short of drivers as it is on the Cobh/Midleton/Cork lines, meaning regular bus replacements.

I don't see any evidence from Irish Rail at all that they have the slightest appetite to reopen the line, or that they have in any way considered it in the planning of Kent station.

Would a train line from Youghal to Cork be a good idea? Definitely. Will it happen? I really doubt it. I think any investment will go into the road network, which badly needs it.

mordeith · 19-09-2018 2:11pm

The line last catered for regular passengers 55 years ago and we're still talking about what if we need it again the future. Better get use out of it now rather than letting it idle for another fifty

Edgware · 19-09-2018 2:38pm

mordeith wrote: »

I actually drive an electric car so you can remove the 'you' and direct your diatribe elsewhere.

Good man. Enjoy your five hour journey of 60 miles.

mordeith · 19-09-2018 2:43pm

Edgware wrote: »

Good man. Enjoy your five hour journey of 60 miles.

Hmmm, I must have a much more reliable car than you.

Roger Hassenforder · 20-09-2018 12:25am

Iarnroid Eireann are skint.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/iarnród-éireann-nearly-insolvent-due-to-losses-1.3108548%3fmode=amp

IMO it's a great idea, thing is sitting there disused, and can always be recommissioned. In an ideal world we would have both, but the money fairies dont see rail between Youghal and Cork as being viable. I'd much prefer to see the money being pumped into a light rail for the city.

Cork Trucker · 20-09-2018 12:27am

Opposition to the greenway has just begun (literally).

https://m.facebook.com/groups/2129427503793852

Roger Hassenforder · 20-09-2018 12:35am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Opposition to the greenway has just begun (literally).

https://m.facebook.com/groups/2129427503793852

FFS, Ireland...

I wonder are the local Greens and Shinners behind this. They're not exactly welcoming turning 25odd km (?) of disused railway, unused for over 30 years since it carried just a Sunday service to the beach, into a greenway.

c montgomery · 20-09-2018 12:43am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Not really. Better if it was a rail line with all the tailbacks but the people of Youghal couldn't care less either way.
Flat and boring landscape by and large.
The PP is hardly surprising given our anti rail attitude here, in govt, public and irish rail themselves.

What tailback are you talking about?
I lived in Youghal for years and there's very little traffic going from Youghal to cork city or even midleton in the mornings. On a summers day when the schools are off it's a very easy drive.
I don't think there is a demand for it to be honest.

Greenway would be a great addition for the area in terms of tourism both domestic and foreign while giving locals an additional family activity.

whisky_galore · 20-09-2018 8:19am

pukeko wrote: »

It doesn't eliminate the opportunity to open the rail line in the future anyway. Utilizing the rail line now for local communities (and tourism) to enjoy cycling\walking\running makes the most sense. Well done Cork Co Co. Fantastic news for East Cork.

Once a greenway it'll never go back, look at the UK and Sustrans. If irish rail and the govt ever woke up and had a change of attitude some greenway users opposition group would pop up guaranteed. A rail line that could have been the natural progression from the sucessful midleton reopening is gone for good because this was the easy thing to do, the lazy way out. But sure as long as it gets Facebook 'shares' and 'likes', who cares? No one will query the costs of course...like they'd love to do with reinstating a railway.

Wanderer78 · 20-09-2018 8:26am

Some of Irelands greenways ain't so green, as some environmental laws were broken in their construction, they can be a very nice addition to public infrastructure though, but should be constructed following strict adherence to such laws.

pukeko · 20-09-2018 8:58am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Once a greenway it'll never go back, look at the UK and Sustrans. If irish rail and the govt ever woke up and had a change of attitude some greenway users opposition group would pop up guaranteed. A rail line that could have been the natural progression from the sucessful midleton reopening is gone for good because this was the easy thing to do, the lazy way out. But sure as long as it gets Facebook 'shares' and 'likes', who cares? No one will query the costs of course...like they'd love to do with reinstating a railway.

I live along the line and drive into Cork city centre every day. I would LOVE if there was a train line to take me in to work but it's simply not going to happen in the near future. There is no sense in leaving it derelict. I will happily enjoy the use of it as a greenway with my kids and take the chance on future opposition groups in 20 years time to a future development.

Roger Hassenforder · 20-09-2018 9:48am

pukeko wrote: »

I live along the line and drive into Cork city centre every day. I would LOVE if there was a train line to take me in to work but it's simply not going to happen in the near future. There is no sense in leaving it derelict. I will happily enjoy the use of it as a greenway with my kids and take the chance on future opposition groups in 20 years time to a future development.

This is it really
There's little point complaining we want a rail.
IR have no intention of opening it.
Rather than letting it sit there unused in 30 years, they might as well do something with it.

Cork Trucker · 20-09-2018 10:28am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

FFS, Ireland...

I wonder are the local Greens and Shinners behind this. They're not exactly welcoming turning 25odd km (?) of disused railway, unused for over 30 years since it carried just a Sunday service to the beach, into a greenway.

I support the opposition to it, I indirectly know someone affiliated to it who contacted me to know would I be interested in getting involved. I’m not in that group though but I’d rather see a railway over a greenway especially along the N25 corridor was of Midleton and West of Youghal Bridge.

Outkast_IRE · 20-09-2018 10:44am

Just to add it isn't Irish rail who would fund the line reopening it would be funded by one of the government bodies , as I am sure the midelton reopening was. So Irish Rails finances are not relevant to capital costs and government would buy the trains etc. Would it be difficult to put a Greenway to one side of the track trains would only be every 30 mins or so

mordeith · 20-09-2018 12:04pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I support the opposition to it,

I've no problem with people voicing their opposition, it is a democracy after all, but why wasn't there a pro-rail group established years ago to get the train line back if everyone is so concerned about it rather than an anti-greenway group being established the day after planning is advertised.

Roger Hassenforder · 20-09-2018 12:17pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I support the opposition to it, I indirectly know someone affiliated to it who contacted me to know would I be interested in getting involved. I’m not in that group though but I’d rather see a railway over a greenway especially along the N25 corridor was of Midleton and West of Youghal Bridge.

That's fair enough.
I'd prefer a viable and functional railway (and a greenway).
But it's not happening.
So where does that leave us?

pukeko · 20-09-2018 3:16pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I support the opposition to it, I indirectly know someone affiliated to it who contacted me to know would I be interested in getting involved. I’m not in that group though but I’d rather see a railway over a greenway especially along the N25 corridor was of Midleton and West of Youghal Bridge.

I would rather see a railway too but that's not on the table. It may never be on the table.

The choice is Greenway or Derelict. I know what i would rather for the next 20-30 years.

Cork Trucker · 20-09-2018 3:21pm

pukeko wrote: »

I would rather see a railway too but that's not on the table. It may never be on the table.

The choice is Greenway or Derelict. I know what i would rather for the next 20-30 years.

I've been told, without formal proof, that the NTA have plans for reopening the line, they can force Irish Rail to do it, not from a financial perspective, but from an operational view.

1988 was the last passenger train to run that line, for a GAA match, running a greenway alongside the line, no issue with it whatsoever, there is a big difference in East Cork since that last train ran, the N25 is only going to get worse for traffic, imagine being a 30 minute train journey from Youghal to Kent, no traffic, it is a definite runner.

If the line itself becomes a greenway you can forget a train ever gracing Mogeely,Killeagh & Youghal forever.

What's this i'm hearing of a dwelling built on the existing line? I'm not aware of that.

Cork Trucker · 20-09-2018 3:23pm

mordeith wrote: »

I've no problem with people voicing their opposition, it is a democracy after all, but why wasn't there a pro-rail group established years ago to get the train line back if everyone is so concerned about it rather than an anti-greenway group being established the day after planning is advertised.

This might be what is needed to kick it into life again.

I assume if there are enough objections, then they can't build the greenway on the line? I'm liasing with some people on how to formally object to it. It's a rarity that I agree with any political party, but the Greens are bang on with this one (for once).

Planning permission up for greenway from Youghal to Midleton

Comments