Is Gaelic Football now a Dublin game.

Stoner · 03-09-2018 11:12pm #1

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed all the threads about the problems with football?

I think we badly need another thread on the subject.

There are many reasons given. However I think it's possible to apply the Pareto Principle here.

I think football is missing some key ingredients. If addressed, the rest may sum to something insignificant.

Consider that County people miss seeing Dublin being beaten. Particularly the ones who earn a living in their Capital.

Now that Dublin have beaten all before them, it seems many country people are losing interest since they don't get to see Dublin being beaten.
There are many reasons given for this, but this could be the real elephant in the room.
It's been too long since Donegal showed the city boys what football is all about.

Has the tide turned? has Gaelic Football now become a Jackeen Game?

Will country people now turn to hurling and abandon football?

Will we see the likes of Monaghan compete in the SHC.

Should we all invest in Ash tree forests?

Or will Kerry most likely save football like Dublin did in the seventies?

Powerhouse · 03-09-2018 11:23pm

Stoner wrote: »

It's been too long since Donegal showed the city boys what football is all about.

?

In fairness the city boys have muddled along okay since then! They don’t need a refresher just yet.

Kingswood Rover · 04-09-2018 8:50am

Dublin won squat for years GAA will always be a country wide sport its got a more even spread of clubs that hurling. Temas like the current Dublin come along every 25 years or so and this phase of dominance will pass. But i do not think that Dublin will go into the wilderness for years at a time without winning another title. i think that the structures within Dublin GAA are now so strong that not wining Sam every 4 or 5 years is less likely than in the past.

ProudDUB · 04-09-2018 8:57am

runs to Google Pareto Principle...

_Brian · 04-09-2018 9:02am

Stoner wrote: »

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed all the threads about the problems with football?

I think we badly need another thread on the subject.

There are many reasons given. However I think it's possible to apply the Pareto Principle here.

I think football is missing some key ingredients. If addressed, the rest may sum to something insignificant.

Consider that County people miss seeing Dublin being beaten. Particularly the ones who earn a living in their Capital.

Now that Dublin have beaten all before them, it seems many country people are losing interest since they don't get to see Dublin being beaten.
There are many reasons given for this, but this could be the real elephant in the room.
It's been too long since Donegal showed the city boys what football is all about.

Has the tide turned? has Gaelic Football now become a Jackeen Game?

Will country people now turn to hurling and abandon football?

Will we see the likes of Monaghan compete in the SHC.

Should we all invest in Ash tree forests?

Or will Kerry most likely save football like Dublin did in the seventies?

Perhaps people who can’t see beyond their own naval might think that, but in the vast majority of rural counties Gaelic Football is stronger than organised religion.

Dublin, Dublin, Dublin, threads here are like watching a bunch of 8yo at training, all running round after the ball like lemmings. Dublin will have their day and then success will leave them, same as happened to Kilkenny in hurling or Kerry or Meath in football.

seamus · 04-09-2018 9:12am

Dublin have changed the nature of the game. For better or worse, they've changed it into a more professional game where the key wins come from tactics and fitness rather than brute force and plucky kicks. If you review any of the "great" teams of the past, or the most memorable games, the quality of football is several steps below what we have today, those teams would get annihilated in the modern championship.

But it'll balance out again. Other teams will adjust their entire structure to suit, the quality will rise, then we're on the rollercoaster again. Kerry did the same thing in the mid 70's, came out with a game that nobody could beat, dominated for a decade. Then the everyone else figured it out, upped their game, and Kerry were cast into the wilderness for the next decade.

Sweet.Science · 04-09-2018 10:23am

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Dublin won squat for years GAA will always be a country wide sport its got a more even spread of clubs that hurling. Temas like the current Dublin come along every 25 years or so and this phase of dominance will pass. But i do not think that Dublin will go into the wilderness for years at a time without winning another title. i think that the structures within Dublin GAA are now so strong that not wining Sam every 4 or 5 years is less likely than in the past.

Which Dublin team are you talking about. The one from 2011 ? Or the one from 2015 to 2017 ? Or the one now ?

intellectual dosser · 04-09-2018 10:28am

I often wonder if there were conversations like this in the 70's when Kerry were so dominant. Did people discuss rule changes, or cutting Kerry in two? We have two very dominant counties in the history of Gaelic Football, Dublin are peaking at the moment, but it will cycle around again, hopefully interspresed with years of other counties reaching the summit.

Riskymove · 04-09-2018 10:30am

only 11 Counties have won the All Ireland in football since 1982

Most counties get nowhere near it - for a long time now

But now as Dublin win 4 in a row and appear ahead of even the other usual competitors there is a big problem

there has been a divide for decades and the GAA has consistently failed to take meaningful measures aimed at improving the lot of the 21

dividing Dublin on it sown will not do anything for the other counties, just possibly reduce Dublin's performance (but also possibly result in two Dublin teams competing for titles)

youcancallmeal · 04-09-2018 10:38am

seamus wrote: »

But it'll balance out again. Other teams will adjust their entire structure to suit, the quality will rise, then we're on the rollercoaster again. Kerry did the same thing in the mid 70's, came out with a game that nobody could beat, dominated for a decade. Then the everyone else figured it out, upped their game, and Kerry were cast into the wilderness for the next decade.

This is it. Michael Murphy alluded to this when asked on the Sunday Game what Donegal are planning for next season and he essentially said they are going to look very closely at how Dublin are playing and try to emulate it. I think a lot of others teams are going to start doing the same, instead of trying to counter Dublin's style the focus will be beating them at their own game

legendary.xix · 04-09-2018 10:48am

The highest level of football now will have to be inter-provincial. This will entail Dublin being a province in it's own right competing against the other 4 provinces.

The inter county game can continue with 4 district counties from Dublin.

04-09-2018 10:55am

Riskymove wrote: »

only 11 Counties have won the All Ireland in football since 1982

Most counties get nowhere near it - for a long time now

That's a pretty bizarre argument, especially considering that its essentially 1/3rd of the pool and the figure for hurling over the same period is 7 counties. In fact, there are only something like 13 or 14 who have eve won the hurling AI.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 04-09-2018 11:14am

Yeah, talk of 11 winners suggests the game is healthier than it really is.

seamus · 04-09-2018 11:32am

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Yeah, talk of 11 winners suggests the game is healthier than it really is.

How so?

11 different winners from 32 counties is pretty healthy.

It's common/typical in any sport for there to be teams that are consistently winning trophies.

English football the same - just 16 teams have won the FA cup since 1982. Even if you ignore the 737 clubs that effectively compete in this, there are 124 clubs at the start of the competition.

Compared to the All-Ireland's 32 clubs, that puts the "11 winners" in perspective. By that comparison the GAA is still a wide-open competition.

rpurfield · 04-09-2018 11:52am

Football isn't dead or a Dublin game. I was stood watching 60 odd under 10s from three clubs tearing into each other at the weekend mad for football. It might look lopsided at the top level but as a whole it's fine there's thousands playing it.

Riskymove · 04-09-2018 11:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a pretty bizarre argument, .

what argument? I just stated the facts

04-09-2018 12:26pm

Only 11 Counties have won the All Ireland in football since 1982

Most counties get nowhere near it - for a long time now

This argument. You're stating facts alright, but the insinuation is that football is not in a healthy position due to so few being in with a shout of winning it. My counterpoint sis that 11 out of 30-odd is quite a high percentage. Comparatively, hurling is in great shape by all accounts and the relevant figures for hurling are worse.

Chivito550 · 04-09-2018 1:52pm

A lot of people are in denial here. This era of dominance will not pass. Football is basically a professional game now in all but name. Comparing to Kerry and Meath teams of the past is pointless. Dublin have the most money and a population that dwarfs every other county. Other counties can’t compete with this. Sure there will be upsets here and there. Kerry and Mayo are bound to take an All Ireland or two in the next 10 years. But Dublin will win the majority and to be beaten by the likes of Tyrone they would need to be so far below par.

You can ignore it all you like but they’ve now won 6 in 8 years, and I foresee another 5 or 6 in the next 8 years.

If you look at sport on an international level (Olympics, World Cup, World Athletics etc) it is generally first world countries with a strong population that come out on top of the medals table, win the tournament etc. GAA is no different now in this era and beyond.

Riskymove · 04-09-2018 1:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

the insinuation is that football is not in a healthy position due to so few being in with a shout of winning it.

ah
my point is actually the opposite... that it is essentially the same situation for a long time other than that Dublin have moved ahead in a small group of counties who have been competitive. There has not been similar level of concern or ideas floated when others were similarly ahead

Kerry won what? 7 out of 10 Finals over late 70s to 80s

in relation to Hurling Kilkenny similarly went through a dominate phase from 2000 but again I don't recall ideas to handicap them

a focus should be on helping other counties develop rather than trying to handicap Dublin for being successful

listermint · 04-09-2018 1:57pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

A lot of people are in denial here. This era of dominance will not pass. Football is basically a professional game now in all but name. Comparing to Kerry and Meath teams of the past is pointless. Dublin have the most money and a population that dwarfs every other county. Other counties can’t compete with this. Sure there will be upsets here and there. Kerry and Mayo are bound to take an All Ireland or two in the next 10 years. But Dublin will win the majority and to be beaten by the likes of Tyrone they would need to be so far below par.

You can ignore it all you like but they’ve now won 6 in 8 years, and I foresee another 5 or 6 in the next 8 years.

If you look at sport on an international level (Olympics, World Cup, World Athletics etc) it is generally first world countries with a strong population that come out on top of the medals table, win the tournament etc. GAA is no different now in this era and beyond.

100% agree man, Thats why the USA and England have so many WC Trophies in the cabinet.

Its just not fair.

Chivito550 · 04-09-2018 2:04pm

listermint wrote: »

100% agree man, Thats why the USA and England have so many WC Trophies in the cabinet.

Its just not fair.

Stupid point.

Football is not particularly big in the USA. They have other sports which are bigger.

Olympic Games:

USA nearly always top the medals table. Rich country with a huge population. China are always up there too, as are Russia.

Football World Cup:

No country with a population under 40 million has won the World Cup since Uruguay in 1950, and the game is unrecognizable now compared to then.

European Athletics Championships:

Who were the top 3 countries in the medals table this year? GB, Germany and Poland, all with sizable populations (60m, 80m, 40m).

But keep dreaming. Carlow for Sam....could happen...

listermint · 04-09-2018 2:07pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Stupid point.

Football is not particularly big in the USA. They have other sports which are bigger.

Olympic Games:

USA nearly always top the medals table. Rich country with a huge population. China are always up there too, as are Russia.

Football World Cup:

No country with a population under 40 million has won the World Cup since Uruguay in 1950, and the game is unrecognizable now compared to then.

European Athletics Championships:

Who were the top 3 countries in the medals table this year? GB, Germany and Poland, all with sizable populations (60m, 80m, 40m).

But keep dreaming. Carlow for Sam....could happen...

Stupid point , it was meant to be a stupid point following on from a stupid point
about Rich western nations excelling in everything.

Thanks for making my stupid point reflect yours.

Its been a joy xoxo

Chivito550 · 04-09-2018 2:09pm

listermint wrote: »

Stupid point , it was meant to be a stupid point following on from a stupid point
about Rich western nations excelling in everything.

Thanks for making my stupid point reflect yours.

Its been a joy xoxo

Go ahead then, give me an example of a small country topping the medals table in a truly global sport?

blue note · 04-09-2018 2:18pm

Riskymove wrote: »

a focus should be on helping other counties develop rather than trying to handicap Dublin for being successful

People's main gripe is that Dublin get all of the games development funding. People get annoyed by home advantage for all games too which is fair enough and then the population is a factor, but generally speaking there's not much you can do about that.

But the no 1 thing people are calling out for, is that other counties get similar funding per player to Dublin. When people talk about money it's because it enables counties to develop players and teams. It's not handicapping Dublin. It's more like everyone else is handicapped and distributing the funding fairly would make it a fairer playing field.

04-09-2018 2:21pm

Riskymove wrote: »

ah my point is actually the opposite...

Apologies. I misread your original post, so, and took the wrong meaning from it.

04-09-2018 2:24pm

blue note wrote: »

When people talk about money it's because it enables counties to develop players and teams. It's not handicapping Dublin. It's more like everyone else is handicapped and distributing the funding fairly would make it a fairer playing field.

When this was thrashed out in the "Split them UP!!" thread a dew months ago, wasn't it discovered that they don't actually get more than others? Funding is doled out on a per-club basis I thought, so the likes of Cork would get more than Dublin? Isn't there a particular funding grant that Dublin do not avail of at all? The difference being in the detail of how that money is invested

Riskymove · 04-09-2018 2:25pm

blue note wrote: »

It's not handicapping Dublin. .

I'm talking about the "split them up into 2/4 counties" arguments

In relation to funding and money, yes that is the key here

population is not the be all and end all as the performance of other counties show.

I think the GAA needs to look at its funding model and the inevitable progress to - if not fully professional - then a commitment to supporting equal opportunity in other counties

legendary.xix · 04-09-2018 2:27pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

A lot of people are in denial here. This era of dominance will not pass. Football is basically a professional game now in all but name. Comparing to Kerry and Meath teams of the past is pointless. Dublin have the most money and a population that dwarfs every other county. Other counties can’t compete with this. Sure there will be upsets here and there. Kerry and Mayo are bound to take an All Ireland or two in the next 10 years. But Dublin will win the majority and to be beaten by the likes of Tyrone they would need to be so far below par.

You can ignore it all you like but they’ve now won 6 in 8 years, and I foresee another 5 or 6 in the next 8 years.

If you look at sport on an international level (Olympics, World Cup, World Athletics etc) it is generally first world countries with a strong population that come out on top of the medals table, win the tournament etc. GAA is no different now in this era and beyond.

What you say is true. People need to realise that Dublin has become a province in modern Ireland.

blue note · 04-09-2018 2:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When this was thrashed out in the "Split them UP!!" thread a dew months ago, wasn't it discovered that they don't actually get more than others? Funding is doled out on a per-club basis I thought, so the likes of Cork would get more than Dublin? Isn't there a particular funding grant that Dublin do not avail of at all? The difference being in the detail of how that money is invested

I didn't read that thread, but I've read plenty on GAA funding over the years acne I've never read anything credible that suggested that Dublin funding is remotely proportional to other counties based on number of clubs / players / anything!

If you have a link feel free to send it and I'll read it (don't just link the whole thread), but I'd be shocked if that was the case that people wouldn't point to that when not getting much respect after winning because of their funding as opposed to just calling everyone else jealous.

blue note · 04-09-2018 2:45pm

Riskymove wrote: »

I'm talking about the "split them up into 2/4 counties" arguments

In relation to funding and money, yes that is the key here

population is not the be all and end all as the performance of other counties show.

I think the GAA needs to look at its funding model and the inevitable progress to - if not fully professional - then a commitment to supporting equal opportunity in other counties

People are fine with the idea of there being big and small counties. No-one is demanding that Longford and leitrim should be producing teams at Dublins level regularly. But if funding was spread more fairly the other teams would get better and of course Dublin would be weaker. They'd still win, probably more than anyone else, but dominance like they're having now would be a one in a lifetime thing as opposed to no-one being able to see what will break the cycle.

It's the reason no-one called for Kerry or kk to be split. They dominated but it was fair. You could see an end because no-one can keep producing talent like that. Except Dublin the way things are currently set up.

blanch152 · 04-09-2018 2:58pm

blue note wrote: »

People are fine with the idea of there being big and small counties. No-one is demanding that Longford and leitrim should be producing teams at Dublins level regularly. But if funding was spread more fairly the other teams would get better and of course Dublin would be weaker. They'd still win, probably more than anyone else, but dominance like they're having now would be a one in a lifetime thing as opposed to no-one being able to see what will break the cycle.

It's the reason no-one called for Kerry or kk to be split. They dominated but it was fair. You could see an end because no-one can keep producing talent like that. Except Dublin the way things are currently set up.

This is the type of nonsense that was debunked on one of the threads months ago.

The funding that Dublin get goes into youth participation, ensuring that primary kids get the chance to play ball, and it doesn't matter who they are, whether they are potential superstars or special needs kids who can barely run, they all get a chance and they all get looked after.

It isn't about producing inter-county players, it is about mass participation and the health benefits.

If you want an example of how to produce inter-county players, go down to Kerry. Rather that put the money they get into mass participation, they have put the money into development centres that hothouse the best kids from U-14 upwards. The result is five minors in a row. Dublin just don't do that to the same systematic extent.

The jury is out on whether it works. It has produced great minor teams, but they lost out badly at U-20 this year and it has yet to translate to the senior team. Maybe it is too early, maybe the kids get fed up with the pressurised situation and move on.

Is Gaelic Football now a Dublin game.

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