The new football championship format - How was it for you ?

Fr Tod Umptious · 02-09-2018 9:52pm #1

Firstly this is more a debate about the structure of the championship rater then the way the championship panned out, so lets try and avoid the splitting Dublin stuff.

Before I start since Mayo were gone on the 29th of June my interest was not as it has been recently.

I personally thought that it was run off too quickly.

The real Irish summer is July and August when schools are off, so I thought that the meat of the championship should have been played then.

Having the provincial finals all done and dusted by 24th of June just seemed way too early.
They could have been played in July and then the quarter final groups running on the schedule they ran this year or possibly a week later.

I also thought the two semi finals on the same weekend was a bad idea.
Each game deserves their own build up, so a week apart would have been better.

I though the quarter final groups stages themselves were not bad but could do with a tweaking.

It's a was good to see important All Ireland series championship games being played outside Dublin, Donegal v Tyrone, Galway v Monaghan and Monaghan v Kerry were good examples of this.
Three of the last four quarter final games had something at stake, which was not bad.

The one issue I would have is with the staging of the first games in Croke Park, they were both poorly attended events.

They should be relocated to neutral regional venues.
They should go back to the thinking for 2001 (the first year of the quarter finals) when they were all played at neutral venues outside CP.
But the notion that a provincial winners deserve a game in CP put paid to that.

Roscommon were the only real duds of the quarterfinals (Kildare put up some good performances).
Brolly was giving out on The Sunday Game at the time that Roscommon did not belong in the quarter finals and should be in some B cahmpionship.

Whether they did or not is not Roscommons fault.

But it is the fault of the imbalanced provincial structure.
All Roscommon had to so to get there was beat Leitrim, lose to Galway and then beat Armagh

As a route to the All Ireland series the provincial championships are not fit for purpose

Clareman · 02-09-2018 9:55pm

I found it very poor, it wasn't helped with a compressed summer and being compared with hurling the whole time. I didn't like the whole knock out to try to get to a league to try to get to knock out. For me the "Super 8s" need to start a lot earlier, personally I think get rid of the provincial championships which no-one really cares about anymore.

TCDStudent1 · 02-09-2018 10:10pm

The reason for the compressed championship was to give the clubs more time. I wonder if this worked in some counties. It certainly did not work in Galway. Corofin's involvement up to March + Galway league final v Dublin on April 1st + Galway's early game v Mayo in May did not really allow for any club championship in April.

Brolly saying Roscommon should be in a "B" championship was crazy talk. They have just been promoted from D1 and are probably a top 10 team. You will usually get some shock along the way that will knock out a top team and bring in a D2 team. It was something of a shame Mayo were not in that group however.

The first match should probably be the provincial champions home fixture - that gives me a significant reward for winning their province. Getting off to a good start in super 8's is crucial.

corny · 02-09-2018 10:26pm

Well RTE's coverage of it was appalling.

C__MC · 02-09-2018 10:28pm

Super eights was mediocre

Davys Fits · 02-09-2018 10:37pm

corny wrote: »

Well RTE's coverage of it was appalling.

Was there a couple of classics we missed out on?

threeball · 02-09-2018 10:48pm

All it meant was there was 18 extra crap games sandwiched in to the season. Running a league in the middle of a championship then reverting back to knockout is a hair brained idea that only Padraic Duffy could come up with. He's left a right mess of a legacy.
Teams like Galway and Donegal suffered badly due to the structure too. There was nothing positive to take from the whole thing. It was a total mess.

Niles Crane · 02-09-2018 10:51pm

They need to have the group stages at the beginning of the championship not near the end of it.

threeball · 02-09-2018 10:56pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

They need to have the group stages at the beginning of the championship not near the end of it.

That won't serve the purpose they were created for which was to generate more revenue.

blanch152 · 02-09-2018 11:23pm

The idea was to give time to the club championships. We will only see the real benefit to this later in the year.

However, the April break for the clubs didn't work. Maybe that should be forgotten about, and the provincial championships could start earlier and the competition less compressed.

Club championships don't need the summer, because club players are on holidays, the students are abroad etc., so having the club championships get serious on 1 September is a good idea.

TCDStudent1 · 02-09-2018 11:28pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The idea was to give time to the club championships. We will only see the real benefit to this later in the year.

However, the April break for the clubs didn't work. Maybe that should be forgotten about, and the provincial championships could start earlier and the competition less compressed.

Club championships don't need the summer, because club players are on holidays, the students are abroad etc., so having the club championships get serious on 1 September is a good idea.

Definitely not true. The majority of club players (that I know) are annoyed that they dont get to play on good hard pitches during the summer and have to play their most important games on wet mucky pitches in October.

LoughNeagh2017 · 02-09-2018 11:39pm

Very good, I wasn't at any games like a true Derryman.

blanch152 · 02-09-2018 11:40pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Definitely not true. The majority of club players (that I know) are annoyed that they dont get to play on good hard pitches during the summer and have to play their most important games on wet mucky pitches in October.

I am sure they are, but when they realise that their full-back is in America on a J1 and their veteran full-forward is in Ibiza with his family, the rest of them won't be so keen to take on their neighbours.

TCDStudent1 · 02-09-2018 11:58pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am sure they are, but when they realise that their full-back is in America on a J1 and their veteran full-forward is in Ibiza with his family, the rest of them won't be so keen to take on their neighbours.

These guys go to USA because they don't have any matches during the summer. It is exactly the reason the CPA was set up - club matches need to be played some time during the summer, cramming it into September and October Is not the way forward.

blanch152 · 03-09-2018 12:05am

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

These guys go to USA because they don't have any matches during the summer. It is exactly the reason the CPA was set up - club matches need to be played some time during the summer, cramming it into September and October Is not the way forward.

Students will go to the USA regardless of whether there is a championship or not. Other players will go on holidays with their families as well. July and August are not a time for club championships, and never will be.

KevRossi · 03-09-2018 12:15am

Stick with Super 8s for a few years.

First match has provincial winners at home. Neutral match played at a regional venue, not necessarily Croke Park.
Last match to be 1v2, better chance of avoiding a dead rubber.

2 weeks from Super 8 to Semi final

Play Semis on same weekend.

Final 2 weeks later.

I'd like to see a poll/vote on provincial championships from players and staff. If they're opposed then do 8 groups of 4. Play over 5 weeks from early May to mid June. Then straight to Super 8 league or just a last 16 and so on.

Every team gets 3 matches minimum. By the last week in June you have 8 teams left, giving 24 counties plenty of time to arrange their own club matches.

The_Honeybadger · 03-09-2018 12:16am

I thought it was pretty poor, from the half empty Croker to the defensive dour football in many games it was a fairly dull championship. The super 8 league in the middle of the season didn’t work for me.

The provincials need to go, I think a seeded group stage at the start followed by two knockout competitions is the way forward but I know it will never happen.

I also think this was the first year I was absolutely convinced nobody could beat Dublin. They were always deserved favourites recently but this year I would nearly have put my life saving on them such is the regression of the chasing pack. The whole season just had a look of inevitability about it. This obviously isn’t a format issue but it does take from the suspense of the whole thing.

shockframe · 03-09-2018 12:18am

The super 8s got off to an underwhelming start but was right good from the 2nd round of games on.

It could have been better but it came at the worst time.

The qualifier era starting 2001 was a roaring success due to the surprises and reflected the rise of unfashionable teams coming good. Hurling's new format worked well this year as almost every county team found some bit of form due to new management teams or a big upturn in performance.

The super 8s has come at a time of dominance not seen for nearly 3 decades so didn't get that new bounce.

Having got through the first year it could be set to prosper next year.Now that teams know what to expect it could be a lot more even. Though they lost today it brought Tyrone on a lot. The Donegal win was arguably their best since 2008 and others like Kildare, Donegal, Galway will hopefully have learned from the experience.

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2018 12:19am

Thing is I felt the hype around the final was so quiet this year.

Nearly forgot today's game was taking place.

Just was more how much Dublin will win by. Never felt anything less even when Tyrone went 4 points up early.

Lucy8080 · 03-09-2018 12:49am

Tyrone V Dublin - the sight of the travelling support and the praise coming from all quarter's for the welcome the Tyrone folks gave, highlighted everything good about the
game.

The second round in general, but especially Monaghan almost putting Kerry to the sword only for Donaghy and Clifford , the old and the new, refusing to go down without a fight.

The third round -A quarter final in Ballybofey with a semi-final at stake.

-Kildare on top of Kerry in fitzgerald stadium until a sending off.

No offence to the Rossies, but Mayo would have been the other team I would have liked to see in the 8s in place of Roscommon.

It was a step too far for the Rossies this season.

PARlance · 03-09-2018 12:54am

Ditch the Provincials, seed teams 1-16 and 17-32, based on League position, A and B Championship.

4 groups of 4 (3 games), top 2 to progress to quarter finals.... 6 games to win Sam / Sam B to be played over a 3 month period.

It's too drawn out with too many crap games. Keep it short, keep the standards as high as possible. Keep it simple.

Emphasise the League more.

To answer the question. The Super 8's was crap. Semi-knockout -> knockout -> league -> knockout. That's not the right formula.

vetinari · 03-09-2018 4:47am

Super 8s was always a tough sell when you have a team as dominant as Dublin.
For the neutral, the Championship doesn't start until Dublin are knocked out.
This just meant more games that were essentially filler.

TCDStudent1 · 03-09-2018 7:16am

blanch152 wrote: »

Students will go to the USA regardless of whether there is a championship or not. Other players will go on holidays with their families as well. July and August are not a time for club championships, and never will be.

Some will, some won't. I went myself many years ago when I still played. At the moment, it suits a lot of them to go when they've a massive gap in the summer. A couple of lads from my club went this year purely because they'd no championship between May 20th and last August 26th. How bonkers is that?! But lads who stay around training for summer should not be punished for it. That's a shocking way to treat club players. They deserve a lot better than that.

The high horse brigade · 03-09-2018 7:25am

PARlance wrote: »

Ditch the Provincials, seed teams 1-16 and 17-32, based on League position, A and B Championship.

4 groups of 4 (3 games), top 2 to progress to quarter finals.... 6 games to win Sam / Sam B to be played over a 3 month period.

It's too drawn out with too many crap games. Keep it short, keep the standards as high as possible. Keep it simple.

Emphasise the League more.

To answer the question. The Super 8's was crap. Semi-knockout -> knockout -> league -> knockout. That's not the right formula.

Exactly this, it's a terrible formula

Fbjm · 04-09-2018 1:37am

Terrible here. So many Saturday evening games. I work Saturdays and I know I'm not the only one in the country having to use A/L just to watch my team. It's very common to have to work on a Saturday for a lot of people and then the GAA write articles wondering why super 8s attendance is so low?? Fools.

manofwisdom · 04-09-2018 2:35am

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Tyrone V Dublin - the sight of the travelling support and the praise coming from all quarter's for the welcome the Tyrone folks gave, highlighted everything good about the
game.

The second round in general, but especially Monaghan almost putting Kerry to the sword only for Donaghy and Clifford , the old and the new, refusing to go down without a fight.

The third round -A quarter final in Ballybofey with a semi-final at stake.

-Kildare on top of Kerry in fitzgerald stadium until a sending off.

No offence to the Rossies, but Mayo would have been the other team I would have liked to see in the 8s in place of Roscommon.

It was a step too far for the Rossies this season.

If Mayo had reached the last 8 it would have been in the other group in place of Kildare. The rossies would have fared better in the super 8s if they went into it as Connacht champions with a 4 week break to prepare and avoiding AI finalists Tyrone and Dublin.

Lucy8080 · 05-09-2018 12:38am

manofwisdom wrote: »

If Mayo had reached the last 8 it would have been in the other group in place of Kildare. The rossies would have fared better in the super 8s if they went into it as Connacht champions with a 4 week break to prepare and avoiding AI finalists Tyrone and Dublin.

Yup , I know kildare knocked Mayo out, but if I could personally have picked the teams for the super 8s this year, I would have switched Mayo in at the expense of the Rossies.

Just a little wishful thinking on my part.

Hopefully, Roscommon will improve next year for the experience.

yop · 05-09-2018 11:54am

A and B championship.

A Championship is 3 games. Mayo V Dublin, Dublin V Mayo and Dublin Subs V Mayo. Winner is AI champion... based on all this commentary that the championship needs us, its the only solution.

The B championship is held in Newbridge over a weekend where everyone discusses how they split Dublin in 6 and how sh9te Mayo, have no marquee forwards are and are bottlers.

Simples.

Meanwhile back in the real world. Ya the Super 8s was an interesting venture. Thought round 1 was brutal, poor attendance, poor games.
Next 2 rounds I thought weren't too bad. The Dub V Tyrone, Donegal V Tyrone and Monaghan Galway games were pretty decent.
It dispelled the "Take Dublin out of Croker" myth a bit and it added to the championship having that game there.

Unfair on Rossies to be fair, its a learning curve and they got sucker punched.

All in All it was probably a better championship, maybe because we weren't on the road every weekend like last year, but agree that it was very much quicker than previous and the lack of coverage at times was frustrating.

seamus · 05-09-2018 12:12pm

I think the Super 8s are definitely worth running out for the 3 years anyway.

There's always a bit of tension in knockout stages that give the games their excitement, but at the same time there are so many factors that can swing a game, that you'll often come away from a game feeling like things could be different if you had another shot at it.

The Super-8s provides that second shot. This is why the 3-year trial is a good idea, another year could provide for a far more tense competition. It does create something of a "back door" though; Tyrone lost to Dublin in a "Quarter-Final" but then came through to play in the final.

One interesting part of the Super-8s is that the winners of the first 4 matches, went on to play in the Semi-Finals. So perhaps there was a sense that the S8s were a waste of time, a foregone conclusion. In another year all spots could be up for grabs in the last 4 matches.

Alternatively it might be worth looking at "second shot" options that are closer to knockouts; like having two-leg quarter-finals; one leg in each home venue.

keane2097 · 05-09-2018 12:41pm

It was crap.

Great to have late stage championship games in provincial grounds but that is the long and short of the positives. The 'Croke Park' round is an embarrassment. The Super 8s are probably a marginal improvement on what was there previously (debatable) but it's a really poor attempt at the drastic overhaul the football calendar really needs.

The solution is and has always been the Sean Kelly proposal.

randd1 · 05-09-2018 1:42pm

- Run off the Provincial championships as quick as possible. Extra time & penalties, no replays. Every game has to finish on the day.
- All the losers from the 1st round games and Provincial QF's would amount to 16 teams, they would play Qualifier Round 1, open draw.
- All the winners from Qualifier Round 1 (8 teams) would go into Pot 1, Provincial Semi Final losers (8 teams) would go into Pot 2. This would be Qualifier Round 2 and the 8 winners would go through to the Championships Group Phase.

Week 1 - Provincial 1st Round
Week 2 - Provincial Quarter Finals
Week 3 - Provincial Semi Finals / Qualifier Round 1
Week 4 - Provincial Finals / Qualifier Round 2

Championship Group Phase - The group structure would be as follows;
Provincial Champions, Provincial runners up from another province, 2 teams from Qualifier Round 2 (that neither provincial finalists have faced). 4 groups of 4, top 2 two to QF's where group winners would face another group runner up, with repeats of the provincial finals disallowed.

The 16 teams knocked out after Qualifier Round 2 would play a similar 4 group of 4 competition B Competition (All-Ireland Intermediate Championship?), repeat fixtures disallowed until QF's.

Every team gets a shot at the Provincials, every team has a second chance after being knocked out of the provincial championships, and every team has at least 2 games, all before they're placed in their respective competitions which would be earned on the field of play. Max 7 games before the AI QF's.

The new football championship format - How was it for you ?

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