Newbie Questions

Dave0301 · 20-07-2018 8:58pm #1

I have decided to start getting a bit more serious about running to keep fit, but also be competitive with some 5k or 10k races down the line. As I get older I am finding the toll of competitive soccer on my body is hurting too much :pac:

I am trying to put together a plan for training given where I am at now. I am late twenties and like to think I am okay fitness wise eg not overweight and fairly active.

At the moment, I am clocking around 4.37/km outdoors and slightly quicker on a treadmill. This is over 5k, and I feel that there might be a bit extra in the tank, but not much.

I am hoping to do a longer 10k run at an easier pace, as well as building in some hill work for endurance.

Can anyone on here with the experience (and time) suggest what else I need to do?

Murph_D · 20-07-2018 9:14pm

Sounds like you’re flogging yourself every time you go out for a run, if there’s nothing more in the tank. You could start by slowing down your pace by about 15-20 secs per km and you should find it reasonably easy to double the distance pretty quickly. Build up to it a km at a time.

But for the longer term, a training regime that includes short, fast reps (intervals) one day, long slow run another day, and easy runs on other days will build both your speed and endurance. Running everything g at your 5k limit will drive you into the ground.

Good luck with it - lots of useful threads here if you look around.

Dave0301 · 20-07-2018 9:41pm

Thanks for that. Yes, definitely planning some longer runs at a slower pace.

Will continue to look through other threads on here. Lots of good advice, just tough to know where to start.

Swashbuckler · 20-07-2018 9:45pm

Dave0301 wrote:

Will continue to look through other threads on here. Lots of good advice, just tough to know where to start.

One of the best places to start is to have a browse through the training logs sub forum on here. Find a few people who have similar times to you in the first post (most people include their pbs in the first post on their logs) and then browse through their log to see the approach they took and the progress they made.

Mostly the advise you'll get on here is not to flog yourself and not to try run fast times in training. Training needs structure and racing is saved for race day whether that be a parkrun or a local 5k/10k.

Dave0301 · 20-07-2018 10:00pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

One of the best places to start is to have a browse through the training logs sub forum on here. Find a few people who have similar times to you in the first post (most people include their pbs in the first post on their logs) and then browse through their log to see the approach they took and the progress they made.

Mostly the advise you'll get on here is not to flog yourself and not to try run fast times in training. Training needs structure and racing is saved for race day whether that be a parkrun or a local 5k/10k.

Have been having a look through some for ideas like you sugested. Once I have a better idea of what I am doing; I think I will start one as well to help keep myself motivated.

Thanks for the advice about saving race pace for race day. There is a 5k Parkrun near me that I will be hoping to do in August.

Lazare · 20-07-2018 10:02pm

Check out the DCM novices thread, stickied at the top of the forum.

I know you're not in the market for a marathon but there's some stellar advice in there around building endurance, which is universal.

As said above, slow things down, a lot. Build strong lungs and a strong heart by running easy and often.

Often becomes easy when the easy is often.

Just made that up.

Swashbuckler · 20-07-2018 10:03pm

Dave0301 wrote:

Have been having a look through some for ideas like you sugested. Once I have a better idea of what I am doing; I think I will start one as well to help keep myself motivated.

How many days a week do you think you can run and do you plan on keeping up the soccer? You're similar to me when I started. Had to quit the soccer.

Dave0301 · 20-07-2018 10:19pm

Lazare wrote: »

Check out the DCM novices thread, stickied at the top of the forum.

I know you're not in the market for a marathon but there's some stellar advice in there around building endurance, which is universal.

As said above, slow things down, a lot. Build strong lungs and a strong heart by running easy and often.

Often becomes easy when the easy is often.

Just made that up.

That definitely seems to be a recurring theme. Have pushed myself reasonably hard the last three days, so might take tomorrow off (have a soccer match anyway). Slight twinge in my left knee, so need to be careful about ITBS. Have a scenic 10k route planned for Sunday, but will be looking to slow down my pace/km.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

How many days a week do you think you can run and do you plan on keeping up the soccer? You're similar to me when I started. Had to quit the soccer.

Hopefully at least five times a week. I have a feeling myself that my soccer days are numbered :pac:

Two longer but easy pace runs? I have a hill sprints plan, lactic acid focused, which I will look into for endurance, and then maybe intervals with some race pace and recovery periods?

As I said, not too sure what is good/useful, but I am looking forward to finding out.

benjamin d · 21-07-2018 1:57am

A very basic plan would involve 4 or 5 runs a week with one being a hills or intervals session or something like that, and one a long run of at least 12km+ for 5/10km training - your long run should be slow. If your 5k time is around 22.30 or 23 minutes your long run should probably be 5.20/km or even as slow as 5.30-5.40 but there are others more knowledgeable than me on that. Your other runs should be at a sustainable pace for you, probably 5 min/km or slower. Do the park run every couple of weeks as a tester if you'd like to track your progress but try not to do an all out 5k too often.

If you're busting out a 5k at 4.37 pace with no real training you could probably expect to get a sub-20 5k without too much heartache if you put the effort into a structured plan.

Swashbuckler · 21-07-2018 5:46am

Take a look at post 5917 by RayCun in the Random Running thread to give you an idea on how to build sensibly. Not suggesting you need to start at week 1 but it's a good reference for a newbie

Dave0301 · 21-07-2018 9:05am

benjamin d wrote: »

A very basic plan would involve 4 or 5 runs a week with one being a hills or intervals session or something like that, and one a long run of at least 12km+ for 5/10km training - your long run should be slow. If your 5k time is around 22.30 or 23 minutes your long run should probably be 5.20/km or even as slow as 5.30-5.40 but there are others more knowledgeable than me on that. Your other runs should be at a sustainable pace for you, probably 5 min/km or slower. Do the park run every couple of weeks as a tester if you'd like to track your progress but try not to do an all out 5k too often.

If you're busting out a 5k at 4.37 pace with no real training you could probably expect to get a sub-20 5k without too much heartache if you put the effort into a structured plan.

I won't be doing too much today as I have a match, but I am hoping to do about 11km tomorrow. Will aim for about 5.00/km but will slow down if I feel that is pushing too much.

Murph_D · 21-07-2018 11:47am

Lazare wrote: »

Check out the DCM novices thread, stickied at the top of the forum.

I know you're not in the market for a marathon but there's some stellar advice in there around building endurance, which is universal.

As said above, slow things down, a lot. Build strong lungs and a strong heart by running easy and often.

Often becomes easy when the easy is often.

Just made that up.

There’s a log title right there.

Murph_D · 21-07-2018 11:52am

Dave0301 wrote: »

I won't be doing too much today as I have a match, but I am hoping to do about 11km tomorrow. Will aim for about 5.00/km but will slow down if I feel that is pushing too much.

If you have never run more than 5k before, that probably IS too much. Do 6k, maybe 7. You already have a niggle. Build distance slowly, not in (relatively) big chunks.

Burkie1203 · 22-07-2018 6:37pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

I have decided to start getting a bit more serious about running to keep fit, but also be competitive with some 5k or 10k races down the line. As I get older I am finding the toll of competitive soccer on my body is hurting too much :pac:

I am trying to put together a plan for training given where I am at now. I am late twenties and like to think I am okay fitness wise eg not overweight and fairly active.

At the moment, I am clocking around 4.37/km outdoors and slightly quicker on a treadmill. This is over 5k, and I feel that there might be a bit extra in the tank, but not much.

I am hoping to do a longer 10k run at an easier pace, as well as building in some hill work for endurance.

Can anyone on here with the experience (and time) suggest what else I need to do?

Playing football will hurt your joints. Twisting and turning so much.

For a 10km, if you have a Garmin then do the distance with your pace set at about 5.15./km. It will alert you if your ahead of behind pace. I do see guys at parkrun setting off doing first 2k at 4.15m/km then dropping off to 5min + per km.

HelenAnne · 22-07-2018 8:22pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Playing football will hurt your joints. Twisting and turning so much.

For a 10km, if you have a Garmin then do the distance with your pace set at about 5.15./km. It will alert you if your ahead of behind pace. I do see guys at parkrun setting off doing first 2k at 4.15m/km then dropping off to 5min + per km.

Or if the OP is just starting running and doesn't want to spend money on running stuff, like Garmins etc, yet, just do the his slightly longer run at a pace at which he could easily have a conversation.

Dave0301 · 22-07-2018 8:58pm

Thanks for the advice all.

Ending up playing most of the match yesterday and took a knock to my calf and felt it today. I am not sure how sustainable serious running and football is going to be.

I still managed to get through 6km today at 5.04/km.

From what I am reading on the forum and elsewhere, I should be looking to do the following?

1. Avoid running at target race pace all the time.
2. Build up mileage by increasing the distance covered in my runs.
3. Do a couple of track sessions/hill sprints weekly.

I know that might all sound basic/common sense but hopefully, it will get me started in the right direction.

Then, as things progress I should find my pace/km start to improve?

Burkie1203 · 22-07-2018 10:06pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice all.

Ending up playing most of the match yesterday and took a knock to my calf and felt it today. I am not sure how sustainable serious running and football is going to be.

I still managed to get through 6km today at 5.04/km.

From what I am reading on the forum and elsewhere, I should be looking to do the following?

1. Avoid running at target race pace all the time.
2. Build up mileage by increasing the distance covered in my runs.
3. Do a couple of track sessions/hill sprints weekly.

I know that might all sound basic/common sense but hopefully, it will get me started in the right direction.

Then, as things progress I should find my pace/km start to improve?

I've a parkrun best of 20.45 and am usually around the 22 minute mark. Im doing half marathon in 3 week and am training at about 5.15/km pace. Done 3 x 18km runs in 1hr35m

Tapering back started today with 14km in 1hr13m

Dave0301 · 23-07-2018 5:46pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I've a parkrun best of 20.45 and am usually around the 22 minute mark. Im doing half marathon in 3 week and am training at about 5.15/km pace. Done 3 x 18km runs in 1hr35m

Tapering back started today with 14km in 1hr13m

I managed 9km at a pace of 5.06/km earlier, and felt comfortable and in control. It was on a treadmill, but it is too hot for me outside today where I am!

I will continue to add mileage this way and include some interval training too.

Best of luck with the half marathon. What time are you aiming for?

Burkie1203 · 23-07-2018 9:07pm

Dave0301 wrote: »

I managed 9km at a pace of 5.06/km earlier, and felt comfortable and in control. It was on a treadmill, but it is too hot for me outside today where I am!

I will continue to add mileage this way and include some interval training too.

Best of luck with the half marathon. What time are you aiming for?

Would take anything under 2 hours but feel if I don't go mad in the first half and get up knockmaroon without emptying myself I can go under 1hr50m.

Treadmills are a totally different scenario to outdoor. If you find it's too warm then cut the distance to 8k in 45 min type pace.

davedanon · 29-07-2018 1:53pm

Nothing new to add, except to echo what everyone else has said. THE most important thing is to slow down. It is the only way to build aerobic capacity. I could argue that you shouldn't even worry about sessions or intervals yet. Even if your goal is just a reasonably quick 5k, or you fancy becoming a parkrun warrior, you need to be able to manage 10k comfortably, and your long run would need to be built up to a minimum of 10 miles. Why? Because the 5k is as much about strength as speed. Once you are comfortable running 4-5 times a week and getting up to 30 miles or so, you could start incorporating speed work, tempos, intervals etc.

Best of luck.

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