Waterford Beaches are a bit sh!t (literally)

Harry Palmr · 16-05-2018 4:38pm #1

The er more brown the colour the worse the condition. We don;t have any that are considered worth avoiding on health grounds but a couple of them are marginal. Given Boatstrand is so isolated you'd have to wonder what is generating the nasty matter to give it a lowish rating.

Deiseen · 16-05-2018 4:50pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The er more brown the colour the worse the condition. We don;t have any that are considered worth avoiding on health grounds but a couple of them are marginal. Given Boatstrand is so isolated you'd have to wonder what is generating the nasty matter to give it a lowish rating.

Poor sewage treatment and/or rivers flowing into the area also affected by poor sewage treatment.

Johnboy1951 · 16-05-2018 5:21pm

Got a link to that map? Thanks

gctest50 · 16-05-2018 5:33pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Poor sewage treatment and/or rivers flowing into the area also affected by poor sewage treatment.

Poor ? none :

Just raw sewage being dumped in

You wouldn't want to go there for a break and have your kids swimming in that

They may as well stay at home and swim lengths of the septic tank

The Green Party’s Grace O’Sullivan says it shows there is a raw sewerage problem in the southeast.

“One of the things that shocked me most is that the deadline to comply with EU directive standards was 2005. This is now 2017, so we’re way behind in Ireland. What shocked me was raw sewerage still being discharged into rivers and seas, Duncannon, Ballyhack, Arthurstown, Kilmore Quay.

Harry Palmr · 16-05-2018 5:39pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Got a link to that map? Thanks

Article here

http://www.thejournal.ie/beaches-4014697-May2018/

Johnboy1951 · 16-05-2018 8:05pm

Nice to see my fav beach is green ....... Woodstown.

dzilla · 16-05-2018 9:34pm

Sure what do you expect the ars3hole of ireland.

taytobreath · 16-05-2018 9:38pm

Tramore is excellant

extrapolate · 16-05-2018 10:14pm

I was at Woodstown beach there on April 3rd and there were signs up at the entrance warning people not to go into the water for health and safety reasons. Surprised to see it's green on the map?

Johnboy1951 · 17-05-2018 1:07am

extrapolate wrote: »

I was at Woodstown beach there on April 3rd and there were signs up at the entrance warning people not to go into the water for health and safety reasons. Surprised to see it's green on the map?

Wonder if that was caused by 'an event' ...... be interesting to know what that might have been.

extrapolate · 23-05-2018 4:45pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Wonder if that was caused by 'an event' ...... be interesting to know what that might have been.

Well, I was there today and the signs are still up! Don't know why that article has it marked green. Odd.

dk1982 · 24-05-2018 9:12am

Great to see my local beach Annestown given an excellent rating. Now if only all the lovely town folk could take their filthy rubbish home with them after spending the day enjoying the facilities that would be great. Wont happen though

azimuth17 · 24-05-2018 1:51pm

The title of this thread is unfair to those Waterford beaches with good water quality.

BBM77 · 24-05-2018 2:08pm

This thread is sh!t literally

An_Toirpin · 29-05-2018 3:06pm

Given the water charge protests it is clear Irish people do not have the will to improve water quality.

Wanderer78 · 29-05-2018 10:22pm

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Given the water charge protests it is clear Irish people do not have the will to improve water quality.

i think those protests were a lot more than just water, i think it was more of a reaction of enough was enough with austerity measures

Deiseen · 30-05-2018 8:11am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Given the water charge protests it is clear Irish people do not have the will to improve water quality.

i think those protests were a lot more than just water, i think it was more of a reaction of enough was enough with austerity measures

100% agree with you on this. It was the straw that broke the camels back!

An_Toirpin · 30-05-2018 9:49am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Given the water charge protests it is clear Irish people do not have the will to improve water quality.

i think those protests were a lot more than just water, i think it was more of a reaction of enough was enough with austerity measures

The two (water charges and water infrastructure) are totally linked. Maybe in the popular media it was fighting austerity but politicians wanted them for the sake of our infrastructure and Right2Water are directly to blame for the recent lack of investment.

Johnboy1951 · 30-05-2018 9:53am

An_Toirpin wrote: »

The two (water charges and water infrastructure) are totally linked. Maybe in the popular media it was fighting austerity but politicians wanted them for the sake of our infrastructure and Right2Water are directly to blame for the recent lack of investment.

There has been a lack of investment for decades, not just recently ........ Right2Water or any other group were not responsible for that.

Wanderer78 · 30-05-2018 10:21am

An_Toirpin wrote:

The two (water charges and water infrastructure) are totally linked. Maybe in the popular media it was fighting austerity but politicians wanted them for the sake of our infrastructure and Right2Water are directly to blame for the recent lack of investment.

My own opinions on this are simply that, I've researched a lot into the dangers of austerity measures, and there's plenty of evidence to show, they actually have little or no positive effects on a society, in fact they cause more harm than good, mark Blyth has done some great work on this. I do agree though, our water infrastructure does indeed require large investment, but I also do suspect there has been an element of de-investment in our public infrastructures for many years now, probably due to the workings of neoliberial thinking. Blaming activist groups for this is ridiculous, many well respected social, political and economic commentators have been explaining this for years

An_Toirpin · 30-05-2018 10:25am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

The two (water charges and water infrastructure) are totally linked. Maybe in the popular media it was fighting austerity but politicians wanted them for the sake of our infrastructure and Right2Water are directly to blame for the recent lack of investment.

There has been a lack of investment for decades, not just recently ........ Right2Water or any other group were not responsible for that.

The reason there was no investment historically was that water use was not tied to revenue collection. Right2Water are directly responsible for stopping a very noble attempt by FG/Lab to change that situation.

Wanderer78 · 30-05-2018 10:40am

An_Toirpin wrote:

The reason there was no investment historically was that water use was not tied to revenue collection. Right2Water are directly responsible for stopping a very noble attempt by FG/Lab to change that situation.

The continual taxation of the individual to provide us with all our social needs is unsustainable, as it is causing great inequalities, amongst other things, we must find ways of taxing great wealth, including capital, in order to move forward

An_Toirpin · 30-05-2018 10:48am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote:

The reason there was no investment historically was that water use was not tied to revenue collection. Right2Water are directly responsible for stopping a very noble attempt by FG/Lab to change that situation.

The continual taxation of the individual to provide us with all our social needs is unsustainable, as it is causing great inequalities, amongst other things, we must find ways of taxing great wealth, including capital, in order to move forward

Well taxing people things such as water on what they need is perfectly sustainable in the vast majority of OCED countries with water charges. In the Irish case, social transfers actually extremely progressive and I dont know what you mean by great wealth? Wealth taxes might make sense in Silicon Valley but they don't in Waterford where is there extremely little super rich.

Wanderer78 · 30-05-2018 11:01am

An_Toirpin wrote:

Well taxing people things such as water on what they need is perfectly sustainable in the vast majority of OCED countries with water charges. In the Irish case, social transfers actually extremely progressive and I dont know what you mean by great wealth? Wealth taxes might make sense in Silicon Valley but they don't in Waterford where is there extremely little super rich.

It's important to realise where the majority of our wealth is nowadays, it is in fact in bank accounts, probably in tax havens around the world, but these bank accounts are not owned by individuals but by institutions, including financial institutions, i.e. banks, but also in the accounts of large corporations etc. Now many of these institutions and corporations do in fact operate here in Waterford. There's increasing evidence to support growing inequality, Joe stigliz and Thomas piketty have done some exceptional work on this. Again, the continual taxation of the individual, to provide us with all our social needs is unsustainable and far from progressive, we must find ways of distributing wealth more evenly, we must start effectively taxing capital more so than the individual to do this

An_Toirpin · 30-05-2018 11:17pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote:

Well taxing people things such as water on what they need is perfectly sustainable in the vast majority of OCED countries with water charges. In the Irish case, social transfers actually extremely progressive and I dont know what you mean by great wealth? Wealth taxes might make sense in Silicon Valley but they don't in Waterford where is there extremely little super rich.

It's important to realise where the majority of our wealth is nowadays, it is in fact in bank accounts, probably in tax havens around the world, but these bank accounts are not owned by individuals but by institutions, including financial institutions, i.e. banks, but also in the accounts of large corporations etc. Now many of these institutions and corporations do in fact operate here in Waterford. There's increasing evidence to support growing inequality, Joe stigliz and Thomas piketty have done some exceptional work on this. Again, the continual taxation of the individual, to provide us with all our social needs is unsustainable and far from progressive, we must find ways of distributing wealth more evenly, we must start effectively taxing capital more so than the individual to do this

The idea of of wealth taxes is to control excessive inequality. It not for the provision of scare resources like treated water. Pretty much every country has accepted water charges as it allows reliable funding of water infrastructure at a fair and affordable cost to the consumer.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 9:41am

An_Toirpin wrote:

The idea of of wealth taxes is to control excessive inequality. It not for the provision of scare resources like treated water. Pretty much every country has accepted water charges as it allows reliable funding of water infrastructure at a fair and affordable cost to the consumer.

And again, there's increasing evidence to support the failures of taxing wealth to help us create the infrastructures we require to succeed as a society, and an increase in taxing labour to try do this, this is in fact, unsustainable. We should probably conduct in highly successful approaches such as the creation of a 'sovereign wealth fund' to try compensate for these short comings, before trying to tax individuals further, even though charging the individual would probably have positive effects on reducing water use, but that would probably be political suicide in Ireland at the moment.

An_Toirpin · 31-05-2018 11:04am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote:

The idea of of wealth taxes is to control excessive inequality. It not for the provision of scare resources like treated water. Pretty much every country has accepted water charges as it allows reliable funding of water infrastructure at a fair and affordable cost to the consumer.

And again, there's increasing evidence to support the failures of taxing wealth to help us create the infrastructures we require to succeed as a society, and an increase in taxing labour to try do this, this is in fact, unsustainable. We should probably conduct in highly successful approaches such as the creation of a 'sovereign wealth fund' to try compensate for these short comings, before trying to tax individuals further, even though charging the individual would probably have positive effects on reducing water use, but that would probably be political suicide in Ireland at the moment.

Middle income people have relatively low taxes here compared to OCED peers while low income workers have very low taxes. Irish people don't seem to appreciate in Nordic countries and Germany low income workers pay far more tax so it is crazy to say Irish people are paying unsustainable amounts of tax. A wealth tax or high corporation tax might raise revenue but it wont do anything to stop the vast amounts of water waste and doesn't funnel revenue to water renovation. Heck we don't need to look far to see the truth here. Look at the plastic bag levy and how extraordinary successful even a trivial consumption tax was for reducing use.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 11:13am

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Middle income people have relatively low taxes here compared to OCED peers while low income workers have very low taxes. Irish people don't seem to appreciate in Nordic countries and Germany low income workers pay far more tax so it is crazy to say Irish people are paying unsustainable amounts of tax. A wealth tax or high corporation tax might raise revenue but it wont do anything to stop the vast amounts of water waste and doesn't funnel revenue to water renovation. Heck we don't need to look far to see the truth here. Look at the plastic bag levy and how extraordinary successful even a trivial consumption tax was for reducing use.

you re failing to see the bigger picture here, large accumulations of wealth are occurring, we must find workable methods of 'taxing' this wealth in order to fund our public infrastructures. if you are affiliated to a political party, recommend them to introduce water charges, and watch what will happen to that party, its political suicide in ireland at the moment. the approach of taxing labour more so than capital is unsustainable. yes, a water charge would probably reduce the usage of water but as explained before, we must also look towards other methods of funding critical infrastructure.

Kracken · 31-05-2018 12:34pm

I think the biggest miss here is that water in other countries is privatised, therefore a profit is required to make it work. Profit therefore means that you will have to cost save is revenue is down. The cheapest parts and labour will be sought and the effectiveness drops of installation and so on. That was evident when the likes of Accenture were hired to consult for Irish water, it was to bring a model in for privatisation online and transfers over the current system.

We in the past have never spent the money required to maintain the system, but that is the issue with social schemes they get defunded with with every government regardless the party. Where in reality it needs to be legislated to having a set amount being set aside per term to maintain the system for maintenance, growth, supply and quality.

Wanderer78 · 31-05-2018 12:39pm

Kracken wrote: »

I think the biggest miss here is that water in other countries is privatised, therefore a profit is required to make it work. Profit therefore means that you will have to cost save is revenue is down. The cheapest parts and labour will be sought and the effectiveness drops of installation and so on. That was evident when the likes of Accenture were hired to consult for Irish water, it was to bring a model in for privatisation online and transfers over the current system.

We in the past have never spent the money required to maintain the system, but that is the issue with social schemes they get defunded with with every government regardless the party. Where in reality it needs to be legislated to having a set amount being set aside per term to maintain the system for maintenance, growth, supply and quality.

completely agree, and i think this showed in the protests as well, many people realised this. theres mounting evidence to show that privatising critical public infrastructures ultimately fails for the reasons in which you ve explained, its interesting to see a small section of the british rail system being recently re-nationalised.

An_Toirpin · 01-06-2018 9:13am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Middle income people have relatively low taxes here compared to OCED peers while low income workers have very low taxes. Irish people don't seem to appreciate in Nordic countries and Germany low income workers pay far more tax so it is crazy to say Irish people are paying unsustainable amounts of tax. A wealth tax or high corporation tax might raise revenue but it wont do anything to stop the vast amounts of water waste and doesn't funnel revenue to water renovation. Heck we don't need to look far to see the truth here. Look at the plastic bag levy and how extraordinary successful even a trivial consumption tax was for reducing use.

you re failing to see the bigger picture here, large accumulations of wealth are occurring, we must find workable methods of 'taxing' this wealth in order to fund our public infrastructures. if you are affiliated to a political party, recommend them to introduce water charges, and watch what will happen to that party, its political suicide in ireland at the moment. the approach of taxing labour more so than capital is unsustainable. yes, a water charge would probably reduce the usage of water but as explained before, we must also look towards other methods of funding critical infrastructure.

You are right, It would be political suicide, but largely due to the toxic efforts efforts of Right2Water. It is absurd to say taxing labour is unsustainable in this country as most peer countries have higher labour taxes. Water charges wouldn't even be a labour tax, it is consumption tax. Water charges help the poor as they no longer have to subsidize water waste.

Waterford Beaches are a bit sh!t (literally)

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