The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:14AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

And if the mother suffers lifelong but not fatal complications from the pregnancy this is just 'unfortunate'?

Amazing how the mother is the last to be considered in this scenario. :mad:

nullzero · 23-05-2018 12:16AM

gctest50 wrote: »

That echo chamber thing is overused

Sometimes almost everyone comes to the same conclusion because it's the right thing ( or close as practical )

You're right,it is,but this thread is an echo chamber if ever I saw one.

Ken. · 23-05-2018 12:16AM

retro:electro wrote: »

Robertkk id rather not receive PM’s from you, thanks.

If the pm's are inappropriate (not saying they are) you can tap the triangle in the top right and report it for the admins to review. Abuse via pm is serious, Site ban serious.

STB. · 23-05-2018 12:17AM

So an advertisment appeared in the Wexford People today says in big capitals

ABORTION CLINIC OPENING WEXFORD
If you dont want this to happen vote NO to abortion and demand a better answer for mothers and babies.

Fúck you and your misleading paid for advertisments save8.ie is all I have to say.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-05-2018 12:18AM

A bit disappointed with the RTE again. I understand the reasons for not having two women on the discussion-but I think it was strange planning by RTE.

Some of the people in the audience-that Ascough one and 'wiffy code' woman whose name escapes me didn't really add to the discussion.

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:19AM

Lia_lia wrote: »

Well I hope no women in your life ever have pregnancies resulting from rape.

I'm reminded of that politician, now deceased, who, when asked by Vincent Brown what he would do if his daughter's life was placed in danger through pregnancy, replied: 'Sure, we all have to die sometime'!!! :mad:

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:21AM

rusty cole wrote: »

irish ferries travel to britain for less ad on during the debate , classic you couldn't:D make it up

Ferrying Irish women to the 'Shamrock Suite' in British hospitals.

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:23AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

acceptable collateral damage. Gods will. Or some such nonsense.

Exactly!

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:27AM

erica74 wrote: »

So you believe that a woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby? Even if the father of that baby is her brother or her father or her abusive partner?

The likes of Michael Healy-Rae and Peadar Tóibín clearly think so, even though they twist and turn whenever they are asked to admit it.

Trasna1 · 23-05-2018 12:29AM

nullzero wrote: »

This issue has highlighted the inability of modern Ireland to have a genuine discourse, neither side have been willing or able to empathize with the other and debate rationally.
Going forward I fear for this country, not because we may legalize abortion, but because we've become so horrifically regressive in terms of how we manage discourse over important issues.

Whenever there is a divisive public policy being debated this BS above gets trotted out. If anything the ability to debate reasonably and rationally has improved immeasurably, especially when you benchmark it against the 83 and 95 referendums. Go even further back and the "discourse" is much bloodier. There is a prevailing thought that we are living in the worst if times politically - even though the political climate is extremely benign, historically speaking.

Irish society is not regressing, but that can be hard to see when you have people on the likes of this site, Twitter and Facebook who are heavily invested in the referendum taking loud argumentative positions. When you look at this thread there are about 15 people who are responsible for half the posts. To be honest the issue is not important to a lot of people. Turnout on Friday will not be 90%, reflecting that... Id be surprised if it breaks 60%

brooke 2 · 23-05-2018 12:39AM

amcalester wrote: »

Side stepped it, didn’t answer it yet again.

Just like Michael Healy-Rae with Matt Cooper tonight. Cowards.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-05-2018 12:40AM

brooke 2 wrote: »

I'm reminded of that politician, now deceased, who, when asked by Vincent Brown what he would do if his daughter's life was placed in danger through pregnancy, replied: 'Sure, we all have to die sometime'!!! :mad:

Gawdd...I thumbs upped your comment, not because I was thinking 'fair play' to the politician...just I hadn't heard that story before...that would infuriate any father hearing that. Nay,any human being.

I'd imagine that old attitude still exists within some circles in Irish culture-I was shocked when some members of the panel, of voting age barely, had similar outdated views.

Abortion is a harsh decision-too many seem to be depicting it as 'lads, lets go out for a termination and on the way back we get a snackbox'.
It's a serious surgery-not an easily chosen decision.
But allowing a choice means that it's a far less isolated experience.

retro:electro · 23-05-2018 12:40AM

Repeal the goddamn 8th.

BarleySweets · 23-05-2018 12:41AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

A bit disappointed with the RTE again. I understand the reasons for not having two women on the discussion-but I think it was strange planning by RTE.

Some of the people in the audience-that Ascough one and 'wiffy code' woman whose name escapes me didn't really add to the discussion.

The female No debater backed out and there was no replacement. Not much RTÉ could do really. They couldn’t have a 2 versus 1 debate, and definitely couldn’t bump the Minister of Health, of all people, to balance things out, given that the referendum is on a health related matter.

If you are curious about the female perspective on each side, the info is available to us all online: for the Yes opinions/arguments, I’d really recommend the “In Her Shoes” Facebook page which has tons of articles written by women. And the Iona website has a lot of articles written by women who’d be portraying the No-side’s opinions/arguments.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-05-2018 12:45AM

BarleySweets wrote: »

The female No debater backed out and there was no replacement. Not much RTÉ could do really. They couldn’t have a 2 versus 1 debate, and definitely couldn’t bump the Minister of Health, of all people, to balance things out, given that the referendum is on a health related matter.

If you are curious about the female perspective on each side, the info is available to us all online: for the Yes opinions/arguments, I’d really recommend the “In Her Shoes” Facebook page which has tons of articles written by women. And the Iona website has a lot of articles written by women who’d be portraying the No-side’s opinions/arguments.

Yeah-I know there hands were tied, but it seemed like poor planning. A mad tactic by the No side, for sure tho.

Still-I think RTE were doing their best not to have another Claire Byrne debacle.

Cantona's Collars · 23-05-2018 01:04AM

Was anything posted about what yer man from Sligo that was involved in erecting the giant no message said?

"Women have abortions because they are selfish". That's some seriously messed up thinking especially when he said his sister in law who's a doctor originally came out with that statement.

BarleySweets · 23-05-2018 01:05AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Yeah-I know there hands were tied, but it seemed like poor planning. A mad tactic by the No side, for sure tho.

Still-I think RTE were doing their best not to have another Claire Byrne debacle.

I agree with you there on all counts!

It does seem like a tactic from the No side. They’re probably hoping that by letting the Yes side “win” the next few days of debates that some Yes voters will not bother voting. Hopefully that doesn’t happen, I think a lot of Yes voters know why turnout is so important in this vote (the 1983 turnout was around 55% and even still, it just scraped past, so with a higher overall turnout it probably would have been rejected given the fact that we can be sure that the vast majority of 8th supporters would have voted!)

Surely for future debates RTÉ will have to have each side nominate a few backups so that if the main characters pulls out there’ll be a substitute available to take their place.

gctest50 · 23-05-2018 01:07AM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Was anything posted about what yer man from Sligo that was involved in erecting the giant no message said?

"Women have abortions because they are selfish". That's some seriously messed up thinking especially when he said his sister in law who's a doctor originally came out with that statement.

This odd one ?

got a cup for childminding ?

Comes out with this sort of stuff ?

“I just feel passionately about the unborn. And about pregnant women who are pressurised into taking the easy way out,” he said afterwards.

Banks was speaking after a two hour live broadcast debate hosted by Ocean FM radio in Sligo’s Glasshouse Hotel. During the debate he was agitated, shouting “killers!” and “bull!” and holding aloft a booklet of photographs of babies and aborted foetuses while pro-repeal panellists spoke. He clapped loudly when one of the anti-repeal speakers contributed. When anyone used the word foetus, he exclaimed “baby!”

spookwoman · 23-05-2018 01:20AM

Love Both

Waterford Minister John Halligan says he was prohibited from acting as a sponsor for his godson’s confirmation at the weekend, due to his views on abortion. He says his godson’s parents contacted him, saying they had been told by a member of the clergy that he could not stand as sponsor at yesterday’s ceremony, by order of Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan.

http://www.wlrfm.com/2018/05/21/waterford-minister-john-halligan-criticises-petty-confirmation-mass-ban-ahead-of-8th-referendum/

Cantona's Collars · 23-05-2018 01:30AM

gctest50 wrote: »

This odd one ?

got a cup for childminding ?

Comes out with this sort of stuff ?

He comes across like a character out of some deranged sketch show.
"A woman had an abortion because she wanted to go to Disneyland"

gctest50 · 23-05-2018 01:37AM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

He comes across like a character out of some deranged sketch show.
"A woman had an abortion because she wanted to go to Disneyland"

Does Garda vetting actually check you are some bit sane before you are left mind kids like ffs ?

JupiterKid · 23-05-2018 02:03AM

I was out with my ex for a drive this evening and we ended up having a blazing row over the abortion issue.

Basically he's been torn over the whole issue but will reluctantly vote yes because of the cases of rape, danger to mother's life and fatal fetal abnormality. He thinks the 12 week limit "on demand" is horrific and that abortion is morally wrong and inhumane. I countered that it has been my position since my early 20s that it is a woman's body and a woman's choice and that in an ideal world there would be no abortion and that it is a difficult and unpleasant issue, no woman makes the decision to have an abortion lightly.

If we ended up rowing over this issue I can only imagine that it is tearing entire families in the country apart.

freshpopcorn · 23-05-2018 02:08AM

The one thing I'd say if this is passed. Both sides well I suppose the soft No's(would be open for it more so) should drive the government mad regarding giving women access to counselling if they need it after an abortion but not just women who need counselling. Everybody who needs it. The waiting time some people have to wait are ridiculous.

freshpopcorn · 23-05-2018 02:12AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was out with my ex for a drive this evening and we ended up having a blazing row over the abortion issue.

Basically he's been torn over the whole issue but will reluctantly vote yes because of the cases of rape, danger to mother's life and fatal fetal abnormality. He thinks the 12 week limit "on demand" is horrific and that abortion is morally wrong and inhumane. I countered that it has been my position since my early 20s that it is a woman's body and a woman's choice and that in an ideal world there would be no abortion and that it is a difficult and unpleasant issue, no woman makes the decision to have an abortion lightly.

If we ended up rowing over this issue I can only imagine that it is tearing entire families in the country apart.

Your Ex's view is kind of common. The thing is having a blazing row with these people won't help the Yes campaign in my experience. Nor will posting on Facebook. Delete me if your not voting Yes because your not my type of person.

freshpopcorn · 23-05-2018 02:17AM

spookwoman wrote: »

Love Both

Waterford Minister John Halligan says he was prohibited from acting as a sponsor for his godson’s confirmation at the weekend, due to his views on abortion. He says his godson’s parents contacted him, saying they had been told by a member of the clergy that he could not stand as sponsor at yesterday’s ceremony, by order of Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan.

http://www.wlrfm.com/2018/05/21/waterford-minister-john-halligan-criticises-petty-confirmation-mass-ban-ahead-of-8th-referendum/

Just my two cents. Now I feel sorry for the kid in this situation and to be perfectly honest. I can see why a priest would do it. John is very open about being an Atheist and I suppose a conservative priest might see it as being a little ungodly him sponsoring him at an event he doesn't really believe in.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-05-2018 02:30AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Just my two cents. Now I feel sorry for the kid in this situation and to be perfectly honest. I can see why a priest would do it. John is very open about being an Atheist and I suppose a conservative priest might see it as being a little ungodly him sponsoring him at an event he doesn't really believe in.

I suppose being open about it in the public eye probably hampered him. I have friends who are atheists who had no issue being Godparents-even doing the communions and confirmations.

And it's a bit of a shame (to say the least) to see the differences Halligan experienced in his home country compared to Brazil where he was treated far differently, despite knowing he was an atheist.

I don't agree with the priest's decision-tbh, it's far from Christian.

Wrongway1985 · 23-05-2018 02:33AM

Will state not a fan of FG

Harris clearly came off the better, fair play to Peadair for showing up.

Mary Higgins gave some real insights.

Healy-Ames disaster the same woman said mothers and fathers day would be done away with should same sex marriage become legal

Ascough woman watched an abortion online (which I take it was the surgical not the usual pill for under 12 weeks) she probably should equally hear from women who take abortion pills and have to go bleed out (likely alone) I'm sure she'll agree equally as lovely.

RabbleRouser2k · 23-05-2018 02:37AM

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Will state not a fan of FG

Harris clearly came off the better, fair play to Peadair for showing up.

Mary Higgins gave some real insights.

Healy-Ames disaster the same woman said mothers and fathers day would be done away with should same sex marriage become legal

Ascough woman watched an abortion online (which I take it was the surgical not the usual pill for under 12 weeks) she probably should equally hear from women who take abortion pills and have to go bleed out (likely alone) I'm sure she'll agree equally as lovely.

Katie Ascough-the first Student Union president in OCD who was voted out by her peers.

freshpopcorn · 23-05-2018 02:38AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I suppose being open about it in the public eye probably hampered him. I have friends who are atheists who had no issue being Godparents-even doing the communions and confirmations.

And it's a bit of a shame (to say the least) to see the differences Halligan experienced in his home country compared to Brazil where he was treated far differently, despite knowing he was an atheist.

I don't agree with the priest's decision-tbh, it's far from Christian.

I have actually spoken to priests about this stuff in the last few weeks. I think if your a God parent and sponsor. You have to lead the kid in a church like way. I don't really think John could do it. It's just how I understand things anyway.

JupiterKid · 23-05-2018 04:34AM

The distortions and bare faced lies the No campaign have been peddling are just despicable. It reminds me of the deeply offensive anti-same sex marrriage campaign in 2015. All trying to play on peoples' fears. Emotional manipulation.

I urge everyone to vote on Friday. This will be a close one so every single vote counts. Time for Ireland to become a fully modern society and grow up and deal with this unpleasant but critically important issue for once and for all.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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