The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Nettle Soup · 22-05-2018 10:51PM

I have seen a lot of campaigners around Galway over the past few weeks. One thing I notice is that the Yes side are always smiling and friendly whilst the No side are serious and dour looking. You would think it was a vote on whether Ireland should be happy or miserable.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 10:51PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But I am not asking for women to get a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.
Are you saying we can't trust women to tell the truth about a rape?

so if the proposed legislation dropped the 12 week abortion on request and instead said that all women who claim to be raped could get an abortion without question you would be ok with that?

robarmstrong · 22-05-2018 10:51PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But where have I said they are asked to prove it?
We either trust women or we don't and all I see is Yes people here saying we can't trust women when it comes to rape.

Who are these Yes people saying we can't trust women when it comes to rape? Seriously, cut the waffles, who has said "we can't trust women when it comes to rape"?

If we either trust women or we don't, why are you voting No to deny her a choice over the fate of her own pregnancy? Because you don't trust her.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:51PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Bull and you know it

It's not, we were asked to vote a second time on other referendums.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 10:52PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Healy Rae vs Ivan Yates on PPV. Rte book it.

only if they were each armed with slash hooks. I would pay to watch that

22-05-2018 10:53PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But where have I said they are asked to prove it?
We either trust women or we don't and all I see is Yes people here saying we can't trust women when it comes to rape.

And who would these rape victims inform about the rape in order to access abortion?
If it is just their doctor, then yes I think that would be OK. Woman tells doc, doc gives her abortion pills. No problem with that.
Or should she have to inform someone else?

Itssoeasy · 22-05-2018 10:53PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

only if they were each armed with slash hooks. I would pay to watch that

It's getting to the point where it will kerry vs Wexford in Croke park.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:53PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Who are these Yes people saying we can't trust women when it comes to rape? Seriously, cut the waffles, who has said "we can't trust women when it comes to rape"?

If we either trust women or we don't, why are you voting No to deny her a choice over the fate of her own pregnancy? Because you don't trust her.

Read back and you will see Yes people here not trusting women when it comes to rape.

djPSB · 22-05-2018 10:54PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I have seen a lot of campaigners around Galway over the past few weeks. One thing I notice is that the Yes side are always smiling and friendly whilst the No side are serious and dour looking. You would think it was a vote on whether Ireland should be happy or miserable.

Such an inappropriate generalisation.

8-10 · 22-05-2018 10:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Read back and you will see Yes people here not trusting women when it comes to rape.

You're off on a tangent mate

sReq | uTeK · 22-05-2018 10:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But I am not asking for women to get a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.
Are you saying we can't trust women to tell the truth about a rape?

Where is he saying that? why see 2+2 and come up with 16.

He’s clearly said that the 12 week rule has been cited as professionals as a time to come to terms with their trauma and initiating it any sooner could again have adverse affects to ones health and perhaps the baby being carried.

if anything the 12 week rule in Ireland gives the victim the time to reflect and potentially
keep the child to term.

using your viewpoint and going against the professionals you would happily inflict trauma on
mother and baby, the same baby you’re campaigning for save.

good logic

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 10:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Read back and you will see Yes people here not trusting women when it comes to rape.

No you just asserted that they dont trust women. Nobody on the yes side has said that.

BabyCheeses · 22-05-2018 10:56PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe you want rape panels, I never mentioned rape panels.
Why can't we just trust women who say they were raped?

You bring up Miss P because the moderation here is so bad they do nothing about it.

Are we really supposed to believe that if there was an amendment to allow women to get an abortion if they claim they were raped you and everyone else against repealing wouldn't be one of the main people here against it?

robarmstrong · 22-05-2018 10:56PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Read back and you will see Yes people here not trusting women when it comes to rape.

I read back and I saw 1 person asking you a question to counter your remarks by querying with you have women ever lied about rape - that is hardly "not trusting women when it comes to rape" , you're nothing but a laughable liar at this stage.

Where are all of these Yes people not trusting them Bob, hmm? You made the accusation/assumption, back it up.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:57PM

bubblypop wrote: »

And who would these rape victims inform about the rape in order to access abortion?
If it is just their doctor, then yes I think that would be OK. Woman tells doc, doc gives her abortion pills. No problem with that.
Or should she have to inform someone else?

I don't think women would want to lie to their doctor about rape.

22-05-2018 10:57PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It's not, we were asked to vote a second time on other referendums.

Not what I was starting but you know that.

No side would not support amendments for rape or FFA, same way they don't support the health of the mother even back in the 90s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4rDYDfVvYTc

joe40 · 22-05-2018 10:58PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

No it does not. It recognises the difficulty in getting a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.

One thing is clear. You don't trust women at all.

But I am not asking for women to get a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.
Are you saying we can't trust women to tell the truth about a rape?

So you will believe a woman if she says she was raped. But not believe her if she says she is suicidal.

relax carry on · 22-05-2018 10:58PM

DarkScar wrote: »

So you will defend somebody's personal choice to bomb an old folk's home? None of your business moralising and all that, right?
What do you mean that's different, it's um er ah... also illegal?

What are you on? That's some grade A bat****yness right there.

sReq | uTeK · 22-05-2018 10:58PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Read back and you will see Yes people here not trusting women when it comes to rape.

Sorry what relevance does that have on the legislation and amendments to hand.

Abortion up to 12 weeks with a 72 hour reflection period.

Abortion there after in the event of serious physical or mental health issues assessed by 2 professionals.

My trust is in the system that believes a mother along with 2 qualified professionals can determine the outcome after the 12 week period.

i’ll leave rape to the civil and criminal court

storker · 22-05-2018 10:59PM

DarkScar wrote: »

So you will defend somebody's personal choice to bomb an old folk's home? None of your business moralising and all that, right?
What do you mean that's different, it's um er ah... also illegal?

Yes it's illegal. And that's precisely the point. There also the fact that not many people come up against a situation in their lives that they feel can be resolved by bombing an old folks home.

DarkScar · 22-05-2018 10:59PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

it wasn’t a question it was pure and utter tripe. trying to bring common ground to a bombing of an old folks home and a yes vote for abortion doesn’t warrant an answer it warrants mockery, which you subtly got.

One is illegal. The other is illegal.
You say one illegal thing is a personal choice. You refuse to answer as to why the other isn't.
Let me guess "because it's obvious..."
We'll just agree you can't answer and move on then. Fine.

munsterlegend · 22-05-2018 10:59PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I have seen a lot of campaigners around Galway over the past few weeks. One thing I notice is that the Yes side are always smiling and friendly whilst the No side are serious and dour looking. You would think it was a vote on whether Ireland should be happy or miserable.

I don't think anyone save for a psychopath considers that the provision of abortion services is a smiling issue whatever side you are on. The yes side should they win on Friday which is likely are hardly going to be celebrating in a gay marriage referendum manner.

munsterlegend · 22-05-2018 11:00PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Sorry what relevance does that have on the legislation and amendments to hand.

Abortion up to 12 weeks with a 72 hour reflection period.

Abortion there after in the event of serious physical or mental health issues assessed by 2 professionals.

My trust is in the system that believes a mother along with 2 qualified professionals can determine the outcome after the 12 week period.

i’ll leave rape to the civil and criminal court

The baby would be long born before it reaches a criminal court.

DarkScar · 22-05-2018 11:01PM

storker wrote: »

Yes it's illegal. And that's precisely the point. There also the fact that not many people come up against a situation in their lives that they feel can be resolved by bombing an old folks home.

And if they do think they have a reason? Do you really think nobody has a reason when they commit a crime?
According to you if a criminal "has a reason" then you have to respect their personal choice to break the law.

22-05-2018 11:01PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't think women would want to lie to their doctor about rape.

Agree. I never suggested they would. I am just interested to know who the rape victims would have to inform about their rape in order to access abortion.
I think if it is just their doctor, then yes no problem with that at all.

Calina · 22-05-2018 11:01PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

No it does not. It recognises the difficulty in getting a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.

One thing is clear. You don't trust women at all.

But I am not asking for women to get a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.
Are you saying we can't trust women to tell the truth about a rape?

I am not saying that. But if you did trust women you would not be dancing a fandango about this. You would shut up and allow women to make decisions in their best interest.

FrancieBrady · 22-05-2018 11:02PM

DarkScar wrote: »

And if they do think they have a reason? Do you really think nobody has a reason when they commit a crime?
According to you if a criminal "has a reason" then you have to respect their personal choice to break the law.

Third time of asking.

Would you be against allowing women to travel for an abortion if the freedom to travel law came up for repeal?

joe40 · 22-05-2018 11:02PM

A wee question for no voters of a certain age. How did you vote in the '92 referenda, suicide as risk to life, right to travel and right to info.
Just out of curiosity, obviously no one has to answer and tbh don't expect any

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 11:02PM

joe40 wrote: »

So you will believe a woman if she says she was raped. But not believe her if she says she is suicidal.

We know lots of people don't believe abortion is a treatment for someone who is suicidal.

antiskeptic · 22-05-2018 11:02PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But I am not asking for women to get a rape charge proven in the time frame concerned.
Are you saying we can't trust women to tell the truth about a rape?

We can trust them to tell the truth about suicide ideation (77 cases since the 2013 act). But we can't trust them to tell the truth about rape - yes appears to say.

Cake and eat it.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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