The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Mr.H · 22-05-2018 10:31PM

RobertKK wrote:

Trust women...are they going to say all the men are rapists?

So women have never lied about rape?

swampgas · 22-05-2018 10:31PM

DarkScar wrote: »

It specifies that this is the exact same as every other law in Ireland... it only applies in Ireland.
Is that really so confusing?

Only to you, apparently. Never mind, popping you on ignore now. Nighty night.

FrancieBrady · 22-05-2018 10:31PM

DarkScar wrote: »

It specifies that this is the exact same as every other law in Ireland... it only applies in Ireland.
Is that really so confusing?

Do you think women have the right to travel for an abortion? If the law came up for repeal would you repeal it?

sReq | uTeK · 22-05-2018 10:32PM

jesus all the no campaigners fail to miss the point time and time again.

Yes campaigners are not telling people abort the child nor are they telling them to keep it l, they’re simply giving them be option to do so.

I hear all the “hard cases” of how i carried my disabled child to term and love them, great you’re a strong women and we are delighted for you but don’t force someone else into the same pigeon hole as you just because it worked for you. Having a choice as a women is key

Itssoeasy · 22-05-2018 10:33PM

RobertKK wrote: »

robarmstrong wrote: »

Tell us Bob.

How would rape be tested for? If a woman came to a doctor seeking an abortion due to rape, what happens next? Do tell.

Trust women...are they going to say all the men are rapists?

No one will say that as it's a dangerous generalisation to make. The reason I think rape is used as a reason is because the X Case which was the first time the eight amendment came into play and showed an issue with it(which I'm sure campaigners against it highlighted) which prevented a young girl from acessing an abortion outside the country.

22-05-2018 10:33PM

DarkScar wrote: »

Ah, so you have nothing to actually say at all. Thanks for the heads up.

I have plenty to say but since you don't seem to know what the actual situation is in Ireland, would I just be wasting my time or educating you?

Have to be up at 5 for work so can do so tomorrow if you want, but plenty of other informed people who can so also if you don't want to wait.

DarkScar · 22-05-2018 10:33PM

swampgas wrote: »

Only to you, apparently. Never mind, popping you on ignore now. Nighty night.

Sweet dreams in your awkward question filter bubble.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:33PM

Mr.H wrote: »

So women have never lied about rape?

The Yes side tells us to trust women.

Then people on the Yes side also say women can't be trusted...

Simi · 22-05-2018 10:34PM

swampgas wrote: »

To me one of Simon Harris' strongest points was that nobody against repeal in the Dáil made any alternative proposals. Not a single one.

They bang on and on about how it could be done differently, but despite having had years to do so have not put forward a single proposal in writing.

My favourite moment was when he guillotined the anti choice lawyer claiming they didn't consider any alternatives.

Nettle Soup · 22-05-2018 10:34PM

Michael Healy Ray getting hammered on the Tonight Show. He is refusing to answer questions.

He was asked a simple question; Should an X case scenario happen today, should that 14 year old be allowed have her abortion in Ireland?
He deflected the question again and again and again. Typical No stance.

DarkScar · 22-05-2018 10:34PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

jesus all the no campaigners fail to miss the point time and time again.

Yes campaigners are not telling people abort the child nor are they telling them to keep it l, they’re simply giving them be option to do so.

So you will defend somebody's personal choice to bomb an old folk's home? None of your business moralising and all that, right?
What do you mean that's different, it's um er ah... also illegal?

robarmstrong · 22-05-2018 10:35PM

RobertKK wrote: »

In the UK the penalty is up to life imprisonment for an illegal abortion.

Until abortion in the UK became legal in 1967. The last woman to perform an illegal abortion and was charged with it was in Northern Ireland, where their laws are again, different than England's laws.

The 1967 law legalizing abortion did not extend to NI.

Itssoeasy · 22-05-2018 10:35PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Mr.H wrote: »

So women have never lied about rape?

The Yes side tells us to trust women.

Then people on the Yes side also say women can't be trusted...

When have people on the yes side said women can't be trusted ? I've not heard that point made I have to be honest.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 10:35PM

DarkScar wrote: »

It specifies that this is the exact same as every other law in Ireland... it only applies in Ireland.
Is that really so confusing?

EVERY other law? Clearly you dont know what you are talking about. Ireland has several extra-territorial laws on its books.

8-10 · 22-05-2018 10:35PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

jesus all the no campaigners fail to miss the point time and time again.

Yes campaigners are not telling people abort the child nor are they telling them to keep it l, they’re simply giving them be option to do so.

I hear all the “hard cases” of how i carried my disabled child to term and love them, great you’re a strong women and we are delighted for you but don’t force someone else into the same pigeon hole as you just because it worked for you. Having a choice as a women is key

The No video on Claire Byrne Live last night was just like that. Described a personal choice in a hard situation that wouldnt be changed at all with a yes or a no vote. Bizarre and irrelevant

sReq | uTeK · 22-05-2018 10:36PM

you have to love the irish. only we would openly deny the right to abortion whilst stating 1 in 20 children are aborted in ireland. (which is illegal) whilst we openly do so by burying our head in the sand and shipping people off to the uk.

Out of mind out of sight. Nothing to see here.

Love the no side saying amend this amend that and yet they still wouldn’t vote for it
anyway??????

Hellrazer · 22-05-2018 10:37PM

RobertKK wrote: »

you would not use the case of a woman who maybe had an affair behind her husband's back and got pregnant and use abortion as a mean to cover it up as it wouldn't suit the argument you want to evoke.

Why not?
Its not her husbands choice.
Its her choice and this is what the NO campaign cant get into their thick skulls.
This is about the womans choice.No one has the right to keep controlling womens choices regardless of whether you are pro choice or pro life.

If your hypothetical woman wants to have multiple affairs and seek multiple terminations because of pregnancies that arise from these affairs so what?
Its nothing to do with anyone else. Its her choice.

Im pro choice. Doesn't necessarily make me pro abortion.

Which is why Ill be voting yes on the day.

22-05-2018 10:37PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

you have to love the irish. only we would openly deny the right to abortion whilst stating 1 in 20 children are aborted in ireland. (which is illegal) whilst we openly do so by burying our head in the sand and shipping people off to the uk.

Out of mind out of sight. Nothing to see here.

Love the no side saying amend this amend that and yet they still wouldn’t vote for it
anyway??????

Of course they wouldn't just the usual bull from them

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:38PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

When have people on the yes side said women can't be trusted ? I've not heard that point made I have to be honest.

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

NuMarvel · 22-05-2018 10:38PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

EVERY other law? Clearly you dont know what you are talking about. Ireland has several extra-territorial laws on its books.

And the 8th was one of them up until the referendums in 1992. It's funny how all the pro 8th people forget that...

Dressing gown · 22-05-2018 10:38PM

DarkScar wrote: »

It specifies that this is the exact same as every other law in Ireland... it only applies in Ireland.
Is that really so confusing?

Oversimplify the constitution why don’t you. Sure why don’t you draft the necessary amendments to deal with the hard cases and we can all go home.

8-10 · 22-05-2018 10:39PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

It's not unrestricted there is a mandatory 72hr reflection period

sReq | uTeK · 22-05-2018 10:39PM

DarkScar wrote: »

So you will defend somebody's personal choice to bomb an old folk's home? None of your business moralising and all that, right?
What do you mean that's different, it's um er ah... also illegal?

Sorry i’ve lost you the Iraq war debate is over that way. Try and stay on topic good lad

robarmstrong · 22-05-2018 10:39PM

RobertKK wrote: »

No but it seemed that is what you were suggesting by asking how it would be proved.

So not all women are going to abort out of inconvenience, glad we straightened that out.

You stated you'd allow abortion for rape, this legislation or potential legislation would allow it providing the 8th was removed. You want the hard cases to have a say? Remove the 8th & lobby for legislation, there's the answer.

Dressing gown · 22-05-2018 10:40PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

No it’s to do with the fact that rape is traumatic and victims of rape tend not to come forward immediately after the rape owing to that trauma.

22-05-2018 10:41PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

We certainly don't trust the no side saying they would support amendments for it and FFA, ye have a habit of lying

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 10:41PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

Now you are just making up nonsense.

RobertKK · 22-05-2018 10:41PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Why not?
Its not her husbands choice.
Its her choice and this is what the NO campaign cant get into their thick skulls.
This is about the womans choice.No one has the right to keep controlling womens choices regardless of whether you are pro choice or pro life.

If your hypothetical woman wants to have multiple affairs and seek multiple terminations because of pregnancies that arise from these affairs so what?
Its nothing to do with anyone else. Its her choice.

Im pro choice. Doesn't necessarily make me pro abortion.

Which is why Ill be voting yes on the day.

You are pro-allowing abortion if you are for allowing it, it is not a choice if one life has no choice, that is not pro-choice when only one party has a choice of life.
You may view life as disposable, that is a choice.

robarmstrong · 22-05-2018 10:41PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

No, it really doesn't, it just means we don't want women to be subjected to a rape panel which one of your pro-life buddies mentioned before.

Stop telling lies Bob, it's getting childish, from the Miss P debacle, to crap about Savita, to weird conspiracies about this forum being paid to be pro-choice, give it a rest, you're a grown ass man.

NuMarvel · 22-05-2018 10:41PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes side say we need the unrestricted 12 weeks to cover things like rape, that says the Yes side don't trust women to tell the truth about rape.

The Yes side says we need the 12 week period to cover things like rape, because the experts in the field, i.e. rape crisis centres, say that asking rape victims to justify themselves or to convince someone to access abortion will re-victimise and re-traumatise those victims.

Which I've pointed out a number of times before in previous threads.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Comments