Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

damianmcr · 03-04-2018 06:08PM

It really does. Makes you wonder are these mad rumours true.

Bridge93 · 03-04-2018 06:09PM

However you feel about the other two, it will be nothing short of a disgrace if there are repercussions for Gilroys contract from this. What a total farce

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2018 06:09PM

Stheno wrote: »

I cant even see a message from CG in what was published

He asked if any s***s got f****d

Ironically, it was his own career which would eventually get f****d

damianmcr · 03-04-2018 06:09PM

Stheno wrote: »

I cant even see a message from CG in what was published

However, it has been confirmed that Mr Gilroy was ‘CG’. The court heard that he sent a message to Mr Olding asking: “Any sluts get f***ed?”,

Former Former · 03-04-2018 06:12PM

damianmcr wrote: »

I hope Gilroy takes the rag that named him to the cleaners. Sure we all guessed it was him when we seen the initials but still. Where was his anonymity?

What would he sue for?

I agree it's ridiculous he's been stood down though.

P_1 · 03-04-2018 06:13PM

https://twitter.com/jelliott_11/status/981228513326923777

Honestly if something said in a private conversation could invoke somebody's career going down the pan it is a scary, scary development.

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2018 06:19PM

Former Former wrote: »

What would he sue for?

I agree it's ridiculous he's been stood down though.

Anyone even remotely touched by this is going to be stood down until the IRFU and Ulster rugby have a full post-mortem that they can provide to their sponsors.

End of the season I'd guess...? Unless they want to risk it mid-season. Might be a big risk.

damianmcr · 03-04-2018 06:19PM

Former Former wrote: »

What would he sue for?

I agree it's ridiculous he's been stood down though.

Did they have a right to name him? Im not sure.

prawnsambo · 03-04-2018 06:23PM

P_1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jelliott_11/status/981228513326923777

Honestly if something said in a private conversation could invoke somebody's career going down the pan it is a scary, scary development.

People have been fired for FaceBook posts and Twitter posts. Now I know these are (relatively) public, but so are WhatsApp messages and texts that are read out in court and reported as such.

MJohnston · 03-04-2018 06:24PM

Be nice if Ulster or Ireland confronted this head on and made younger players go through copious amounts of training in respect for women (which sadly seems to be actually necessary).

The facade of this being a game played by gentlemen is well and truly broken, regardless of any criminality the words exchanged in those messages are just purely scummy.

prawnsambo · 03-04-2018 06:24PM

damianmcr wrote: »

Did they have a right to name him? Im not sure.

Once it's part of the court record, it's fair game.

Podge_irl · 03-04-2018 06:26PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

People have been fired for FaceBook posts and Twitter posts. Now I know these are (relatively) public, but so are WhatsApp messages and texts that are read out in court and reported as such.

They are completely public and are written with the intention of being public. Surely that is a completely different thing?

P_1 · 03-04-2018 06:27PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

People have been fired for FaceBook posts and Twitter posts. Now I know these are (relatively) public, but so are WhatsApp messages and texts that are read out in court and reported as such.

A fair point but a key difference is that Facebook and Twitter posts are assumed to be public and hence publishable. A Whatsapp message isn't, unless we're now meant to enter the mindset that anything we say to another person on it (or even in a text message) is now going to be read out as evidence in a court while we're trying it.

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2018 06:30PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

They are completely public and are written with the intention of being public. Surely that is a completely different thing?

Yeah, you'd have to think they'll be given the appropriate consideration.

This part of their conduct was pretty pathetic but it should be viewed as a private conversation. If that is the only thing that they have on Gilroy I'd imagine it'll be just a slap on the wrist and some public apology and commitment to education for him. But his public persona will forever be tarnished by this.

bilston · 03-04-2018 06:31PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Be nice if Ulster or Ireland confronted this head on and made younger players go through copious amounts of training in respect for women (which sadly seems to be actually necessary).

The facade of this being a game played by gentlemen is well and truly broken, regardless of any criminality the words exchanged in those messages are just purely scummy.

I don't really know what to say MJohnston. I realise you are really upset (not sure that's the right word) about this, and I understand it, but these are guys in their early 20s. You surely can't be that shocked by these WhatsApp messages???

Buer · 03-04-2018 06:32PM

Well, if CG is being stood down for his part, I'd guess that PJ and SO aren't looking too good for being retained.

Brendan Fanning had a piece over the weekend that discussed the clauses contained within the standard IRFU underwritten contract

According to the terms of the standard contract, under the termination clause, the IRFU reserves the right to summarily terminate this Agreement and dismiss the Player from its employment if the player is guilty of gross misconduct, or has committed a serious breach of the terms of this Agreement, or any of the IRFU's policies, codes and regulations notified to the Player from time to time. That includes being guilty of any form of conduct which brings the IRFU, the Game or the Player into disrepute

Brewster · 03-04-2018 06:33PM

As has been said, Gilroy’s message is arguably more ‘distasteful’ than Jackson’s. To be honest, and after a public dressing down, I am confident all three will be Ulster players next season. I also predict that Jackson will go to the World Cup...

Stheno · 03-04-2018 06:35PM

bilston wrote: »

I don't really know what to say MJohnston. I realise you are really upset (not sure that's the right word) about this, and I understand it, but these are guys in their early 20s. You surely can't be that shocked by this???

Id consider myself relatively liberal and tbh i find those messages offensive.

If you are part of the very conservative element of Ulster society i can imagine people are horrified tbh

bilston · 03-04-2018 06:37PM

Stheno wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

I don't really know what to say MJohnston. I realise you are really upset (not sure that's the right word) about this, and I understand it, but these are guys in their early 20s. You surely can't be that shocked by this???

Id consider myself relatively liberal and tbh i find those messages offensive.

If you are part of the very conservative element of Ulster society i can imagine people are horrified tbh

I'm not saying the messages arent offensive, but I think it's naive to think messages like that aren't commonplace on many WhatsApp groups around the country and beyond for single men of that age.

Stheno · 03-04-2018 06:38PM

Brewster wrote: »

As has been said, Gilroy’s message is arguably more ‘distasteful’ than Jackson’s. To be honest, and after a public dressing down, I am confident all three will be Ulster players next season. I also predict that Jackson will go to the World Cup...

Id be fairly sure neither Jackson nor Olding will stay at the club

Burkie1203 · 03-04-2018 06:38PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, you'd have to think they'll be given the appropriate consideration.

This part of their conduct was pretty pathetic but it should be viewed as a private conversation. If that is the only thing that they have on Gilroy I'd imagine it'll be just a slap on the wrist and some public apology and commitment to education for him. But his public persona will forever be tarnished by this.

Saw this earlier today. Worth a read

https://twitter.com/IrishLabourLaw/status/981102144546799617?s=19

S. Goodspeed · 03-04-2018 06:40PM

Obviously not condoning these guys but, in general, it seems absurd that "embarrassing" evidence brought up in a trial in which the accused are found to be innocent can be made so public and subsequently used to punish those innocent parties.
I would have little issue if Ulster Rugby came across those private comments, or similar, themselves and decided they were worthy of punishment (obviously they wouldn't unless they were shamed into doing so by the public) but using evidence from a failed prosecution doesn't sit well with me.

bilston · 03-04-2018 06:42PM

Stheno wrote: »

Brewster wrote: »

As has been said, Gilroy’s message is arguably more ‘distasteful’ than Jackson’s. To be honest, and after a public dressing down, I am confident all three will be Ulster players next season. I also predict that Jackson will go to the World Cup...

Id be fairly sure neither Jackson nor Olding will stay at the club

I can't see how they will stay. In fact I'd say it's practically a given, I don't agree with it myself but it is probably better for all concerned to part ways.

Gilroy is an interesting one though. If you sack Jackson and Olding over the WhatsApp messages then you have to sack Gilroy. But then it may not come to sackings.

prawnsambo · 03-04-2018 06:48PM

bilston wrote: »

I can't see how they will stay. In fact I'd say it's practically a given, I don't agree with it myself but it is probably better for all concerned to part ways.

Gilroy is an interesting one though. If you sack Jackson and Olding over the WhatsApp messages then you have to sack Gilroy. But then it may not come to sackings.

On the other hand, if you review the other two on the basis of the messages and other issues, you can't avoid reviewing Gilroy.

Buer · 03-04-2018 06:55PM

If they terminate a contract on the basis of messages, they've to act on Gilroy too.

If they terminate a contract on the basis of what they consider distasteful behaviour with a woman involving multiple people present, they could open a whole other can of worms in relation to previously well publicised incidents involving others.

If I was Jackson, one of the first things I'd be asking would be where was the investigations a few years back when another incident took place with two Irish stars and multiple people in the room which led to some distasteful WhatsApp messages being sent out and well publicised.

swiwi_ · 03-04-2018 06:55PM

I’d be interested to see how firing someone based on a private WhatsApp message stands up in a court of law...maybe even the European court.

Could get nasty if we have 3 players taking the rugby union to the courts.

Augme · 03-04-2018 06:58PM

bilston wrote: »

I'm not saying the messages arent offensive, but I think it's naive to think messages like that aren't commonplace on many WhatsApp groups around the country and beyond for single men of that age.

Maybe that's the problem a large portion of society has? That these conversations are considered "normal" and thus, there is nothing considered wrong with them. Professional athletes have to accept that they are held to the higher standard of behaviour in public, and in private, than the average Joe Soap.

P_1 · 03-04-2018 07:00PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I’d be interested to see how firing someone based on a private WhatsApp message stands up in a court of law...maybe even the European court.

Could get nasty if we have 3 players taking the rugby union to the courts.

TBH I'd imagine what sort of protest materialises at the next Ulster home match might well have a bearing on whatever decision is made. From what I've seen, the majority of the protest online seems to be stemming from south of the border, not north.

Of course, it will be commercial sensibilities that decide this one way or an other. It could well be the court of law v the court of public opinion.

Dubinusa · 03-04-2018 07:00PM

Utterly devastating. These lads are idiotic, behaved like idiots and have no class.
Is that reason enough to destroy their careers?
I personally don't think so. This is complete madness that a private message would doom Gilroys Ulster career.
I'm sure there's a lot of players chomping at the bit just dying to play rugby for Ulster and the IRFU. Ulster should just recruit from Eton or some other upper crust gentlemen school of that's the case.

stl.ire · 03-04-2018 07:00PM

bilston wrote: »

I can't see how they will stay. In fact I'd say it's practically a given, I don't agree with it myself but it is probably better for all concerned to part ways.

Gilroy is an interesting one though. If you sack Jackson and Olding over the WhatsApp messages then you have to sack Gilroy. But then it may not come to sackings.

Maybe not sackings but “mutual” contract terminations for Jackson and Olding and a nice apology from Gilroy are most likely imo.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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