DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

skyblue46 · 13-03-2018 02:17PM

ariana` wrote: »

I keep coming full circle to be honest K.

I want to run & i want to enjoy my running. I can't see myself sticking religiously to a plan much as the amazing successes at Bohermeen have tempted me. I want to go be able join up with friends for an easy 5 miler without the pressure to stick to the plan. I think i have been reasonably consistent this past 12 weeks while still enjoying the sociable side of running so i would like to continue on that vein and build on it now. I am finally over the injuries of DCM but that took a while, looking back i have no regrets it's one of my greatest achievements, but it broke me in bits really if i'm honest, i had niggles until early this year.

The focus will be on 5-10 k for the next 3 months but i won't be sticking to 1 target race. I'll probably race 4-5 times between May & June, maybe even more. Maybe i won't reach my full potential - but how do we really know that anyone ever does?

May/June there's tonnes of local races. I love them. I love seeing the regular faces. The nervous chats beforehand as you line up and the adrenaline fueled buzz afterwards. I know what to expect right down to which races have the best spread of sambos & cakes afterwards! 5ks races hurt, 10ks too so I look forward to them and i fear them in equal measure but for me early Summer is all about them, chasing PBs and cake

E there is no need to stick religiously to any plan, nor is racing in the middle of one a problem either. It does help in avoiding going totally off the rails. Did you read the post that T made on my log?

ariana` · 13-03-2018 02:36PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

E there is no need to stick religiously to any plan, nor is racing in the middle of one a problem either. It does help in avoiding going totally off the rails. Did you read the post that T made on my log?

I did if you mean the post where he encouraged racing? I was happy to read that alright

I don't want to claim to follow a plan when my interpretation of it is very loose, i will only know as i go along how close i can get while still maintaining the social side and the races. I understand tweaking a plan is ok, advisable even to be able to listen to one's own body, but I'm sure there's a fine line between tweaking it and it becoming unrecognisable. I wouldn't want to do disservice to a plan by claiming to follow it and then not doing it the justice it deserves because i tweaked it within a inch of it's life :pac:

Kellygirl · 13-03-2018 02:40PM

Would that put you off DCM again this year Ariana? I think you are doing really well and it was unfortunate that your HM got postponed as you couldn’t prove it to yourself. I think you have to continue as you are doing or else you won’t enjoy it.

ariana` · 13-03-2018 03:04PM

Kellygirl wrote: »

Would that put you off DCM again this year Ariana? I think you are doing really well and it was unfortunate that your HM got postponed as you couldn’t prove it to yourself. I think you have to continue as you are doing or else you won’t enjoy it.

It saddens me but i think so. The penny just dropped really this week. I ran 40 km last November, about 100 km in December (most of that was the week after Christmas). I was in denial but i was in bits. I was sore just walking at work or at home. I'd have to read back on my log but i'd say it's only the last month it's really lifted. I'd love to think i have another marathon in my future but i want to be sustaining high mileage for months before i even start training for it.

Kellygirl · 13-03-2018 03:16PM

ariana` wrote: »

It saddens me but i think so. The penny just dropped really this week. I ran 40 km last November, about 100 km in December (most of that was the week after Christmas). I was in denial but i was in bits. I was sore just walking at work or at home. I'd have to read back on my log but i'd say it's only the last month it's really lifted. I'd love to think i have another marathon in my future but i want to be sustaining high mileage for months before i even start training for it.

That’s a shame. But if you do a couple of years doing really solid half marathons then it might be time to do it again? Having said that, could that knee injury have been a one off? You’ve done a lot of S&C work since then and your mileage to date this year is quite high too. Plenty of time time still to decide anyway.

ariana` · 13-03-2018 03:18PM

Kellygirl wrote: »

That’s a shame. But if you do a couple of years doing really solid half marathons then it might be time to do it again? Having said that, could that knee injury have been a one off? You’ve done a lot of S&C work since then and your mileage to date this year is quite high too. Plenty of time time still to decide anyway.

Yeah true enough, i haven't ruled it out completely K... it wouldn't be like me too be that decisive :pac:

Kellygirl · 13-03-2018 04:25PM

ariana` wrote: »

Yeah true enough, i haven't ruled it out completely K... it wouldn't be like me too be that decisive :pac:

Well I hope you do it as would be fun to meet up there again but that’s no reason either :-)

Testosterscone · 14-03-2018 12:40PM

ariana` wrote: »

I did if you mean the post where he encouraged racing? I was happy to read that alright

I don't want to claim to follow a plan when my interpretation of it is very loose, i will only know as i go along how close i can get while still maintaining the social side and the races. I understand tweaking a plan is ok, advisable even to be able to listen to one's own body, but I'm sure there's a fine line between tweaking it and it becoming unrecognisable. I wouldn't want to do disservice to a plan by claiming to follow it and then not doing it the justice it deserves because i tweaked it within a inch of it's life :pac:

I am gonna let you in on a secret.

I Hate Plans! I think they are probably the worst thing to happen to this sport over the last 20 years.

In an ideal world coaches and athletes would interact and be flexible, when needed but also have the knowledge to make changes intelligently. Ask the majority of coaches and they will tell you the same thing. I remember Paul Pollocks coach talking about his plan in build up to marathon vs what he had in original draft of a plan only had about 60/70% overlap.

The main reason I wrote the boards plans was more to give people a taster to different elements of training and how they can work with each other. Some people find comfort in a set plan with set paces (hence the use of calculator etc)

Don't hold any plan in such high regard, hold with disdain. work towards understanding how sessions interact with each other, what works for you and what doesn't (by doesn't I mean not beneficial rather than not being enjoyable)

Running should be enjoyable but performance shouldn't be isolated from performance, encourage others to do sessions with you or jump in theres, sometimes it can give you a mental break by working with someone.

Wubble Wubble · 14-03-2018 01:23PM

Testosterscone wrote: »

Running should be enjoyable but performance shouldn't be isolated from performance, encourage others to do sessions with you or jump in theres, sometimes it can give you a mental break by working with someone.

+1 to this in particular from the above. I was lucky enough to have clubmates of similar standard available to join me for 5 x 1M and 10 x 800 sessions coming up to DCM last year. It makes such a difference; on your own it's so much easier to lapse without even realising.

ariana` · 15-03-2018 02:18PM

Thanks for the very helpful posts Testosterscone and WW.

This is more a discussion point than a query but I'm just wondering do people ever feel having target/goal times actually might hold them back? To give the background, i started running in very late 2013, I ran my first 5k race at the end of April 2014 in 29:03. Exactly four months later at the end of August i ran 25:06. I was aiming for sub 25. A few weeks after the 25:06 i found out i was expecting baby #3 and lo and behold with the jigs and the reels of extending my family and the toll that took I didn't end up breaking 25 min for 5k until almost 2 yrs later in June 2016. But it seems like i'm stuck a bit since then, i did get my pb down to 24:36 last year but to be honest psychologically i think 25 min was a milestone for so long that I'm still always happy (or relieved may be a better word) when i run sub 25 & now i wonder is that milestone target actually holding me back. I suppose with the marathon and all i haven't really focused on 5k so it'll be interesting to see what the next few months old but i hope i can push myself on from content with sub 25 :cool:

That's my Thursday afternoon musings. How's everyone who raced last weekend's - recovered or getting there? Any new plans or targets to share?

skyblue46 · 15-03-2018 05:36PM

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks for the very helpful posts Testosterscone and WW.

This is more a discussion point than a query but I'm just wondering do people ever feel having target/goal times actually might hold them back? To give the background, i started running in very late 2013, I ran my first 5k race at the end of April 2014 in 29:03. Exactly four months later at the end of August i ran 25:06. I was aiming for sub 25. A few weeks after the 25:06 i found out i was expecting baby #3 and lo and behold with the jigs and the reels of extending my family and the toll that took I didn't end up breaking 25 min for 5k until almost 2 yrs later in June 2016. But it seems like i'm stuck a bit since then, i did get my pb down to 24:36 last year but to be honest psychologically i think 25 min was a milestone for so long that I'm still always happy (or relieved may be a better word) when i run sub 25 & now i wonder is that milestone target actually holding me back. I suppose with the marathon and all i haven't really focused on 5k so it'll be interesting to see what the next few months old but i hope i can push myself on from content with sub 25 :cool:

That's my Thursday afternoon musings. How's everyone who raced last weekend's - recovered or getting there? Any new plans or targets to share?

Aw Missus you're a poor tormented soul, caught between a rock and a hard place, dithering, undecided, confused and musing :pac: You just need to get out and race! Don't be overthinking things. It's easy. As I saw on a poster nailed to a post in Bohermeen....left foot, right foot, repeat!

Seriously though, you haven't had a race since DCM and injury free to give you a picture of where you are at. Give your upcoming 10 miler socks and take it from there. Trust me when I say you haven't hit any glass ceiling. Your training will show itself once you race.

Omeceron · 15-03-2018 08:54PM

Better late than never with my race report and first post in the thread.

I'm doing the Grads 5-10 km plan. I started it on the 1st of Jan so only on week 10 when the Bohermeen half came around. Goal A was always a 10km at the end of the plan but thought I'd try the half. Longest run since DCM was 10 miles but I was hopeful the endurance was still there

Aim was sub 2 hour. Race plan was simple, stay with the 2 hour pacers and see how I am at the finish.

Lined up with the pacers. Mini disaster after a half mile when my flip belt fell off. Somehow managed to catch it (possibly my greatest ever sporting achievement) and ran with it in my hand for approx a mile. When the congestion cleared I got it back on with a little help from a fellow runner...

First mile felt a little fast but settled into it quickly.

08:57, 08:51, 08:58, 09:01, 08:51, 08:56

Remaining few miles of the first half were uneventful. Ticked along nicely beside the pacers. At the end of mile 4 I found myself slightly ahead of them but I slowed to let them catch me.

The same thing happened at the end of mile 6. Going through the start area and water station I found myself with a bit of a lead. I was going to slow again but I decided the pace was feeling comfortable so went with it

08:50, 08:51, 08:45, 08:35, 08:43, 08:29, 07:45

Kept a steady effort for the next few miles. Passed a lot of people which was a stark contrast to DCM. I could see a runner from Trim doing the same thing ahead of me so focused on catching her. Finally got her around mile 11. At this stage I was confident of sub 2 but not really sure how far under I'd be. Had a quick chat with Trim and she said she was aiming for 1:57. A few calculations later I figured if we kept up the pace we'd get 1:56. We pushed on together and passed a few more.

With a mile to go she told me go on ahead. I pushed on again and finished in 1:54:06. Delighted and shocked. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Next up is a crack at a sub 50 10k.

skyblue46 · 15-03-2018 09:10PM

Omeceron wrote: »

Better late than never with my race report and first post in the thread.

I'm doing the Grads 5-10 km plan. I started it on the 1st of Jan so only on week 10 when the Bohermeen half came around. Goal A was always a 10km at the end of the plan but thought I'd try the half. Longest run since DCM was 10 miles but I was hopeful the endurance was still there

Aim was sub 2 hour. Race plan was simple, stay with the 2 hour pacers and see how I am at the finish.

Lined up with the pacers. Mini disaster after a half mile when my flip fell off. Somehow managed to catch it (possibly my greatest ever sporting achievement) and ran with it in my hand for approx a mile. When the congestion cleared I got it back on with a little help from a fellow runner...

First mile felt a little fast but settled into it quickly.

08:57, 08:51, 08:58, 09:01, 08:51, 08:56

Remaining few miles of the first half were uneventful. Ticked along nicely beside the pacers. At the end of mile 4 I found myself slightly ahead of them but I slowed to let them catch me.

The same thing happened at the end of mile 6. Going through the start area and water station I found myself with a bit of a lead. I was going to slow again but I decided the pace was feeling comfortable so went with it

08:50, 08:51, 08:45, 08:35, 08:43, 08:29, 07:45

Kept a steady effort for the next few miles. Passed a lot of people which was a stark contrast to DCM. I could see a runner from Trim doing the same thing ahead of me so focused on catching her. Finally got her around mile 11. At this stage I was confident of sub 2 but not really sure how far under I'd be. Had a quick chat with Trim and she said she was aiming for 1:57. A few calculations later I figured if we kept up the pace we'd get 1:56. We pushed on together and passed a few more.

With a mile to go she told me go on ahead. I pushed on again and finished in 1:54:06. Delighted and shocked. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Next up is a crack at a sub 50 10k.

That's a great effort and great report. It makes me regret not doing a proper one. I can particularly relate to trying to pick people off and the constant mental maths trying to guess a finish time. :pac: Maybe I'll do one later...

ariana` · 15-03-2018 09:13PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

Aw Missus you're a poor tormented soul, caught between a rock and a hard place, dithering, undecided, confused and musing :pac: You just need to get out and race! Don't be overthinking things. It's easy. As I saw on a poster nailed to a post in Bohermeen....left foot, right foot, repeat!

Seriously though, you haven't had a race since DCM and injury free to give you a picture of where you are at. Give your upcoming 10 miler socks and take it from there. Trust me when I say you haven't hit any glass ceiling. Your training will show itself once you race.

I know i'm going to go off now and stop annoying y'all :pac:

Omeceron wrote: »

Better late than never with my race report and first post in the thread.

I'm doing the Grads 5-10 km plan. I started it on the 1st of Jan so only on week 10 when the Bohermeen half came around. Goal A was always a 10km at the end of the plan but thought I'd try the half. Longest run since DCM was 10 miles but I was hopeful the endurance was still there

Aim was sub 2 hour. Race plan was simple, stay with the 2 hour pacers and see how I am at the finish.

Lined up with the pacers. Mini disaster after a half mile when my flip fell off. Somehow managed to catch it (possibly my greatest ever sporting achievement) and ran with it in my hand for approx a mile. When the congestion cleared I got it back on with a little help from a fellow runner...

First mile felt a little fast but settled into it quickly.

08:57, 08:51, 08:58, 09:01, 08:51, 08:56

Remaining few miles of the first half were uneventful. Ticked along nicely beside the pacers. At the end of mile 4 I found myself slightly ahead of them but I slowed to let them catch me.

The same thing happened at the end of mile 6. Going through the start area and water station I found myself with a bit of a lead. I was going to slow again but I decided the pace was feeling comfortable so went with it

08:50, 08:51, 08:45, 08:35, 08:43, 08:29, 07:45

Kept a steady effort for the next few miles. Passed a lot of people which was a stark contrast to DCM. I could see a runner from Trim doing the same thing ahead of me so focused on catching her. Finally got her around mile 11. At this stage I was confident of sub 2 but not really sure how far under I'd be. Had a quick chat with Trim and she said she was aiming for 1:57. A few calculations later I figured if we kept up the pace we'd get 1:56. We pushed on together and passed a few more.

With a mile to go she told me go on ahead. I pushed on again and finished in 1:54:06. Delighted and shocked. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Next up is a crack at a sub 50 10k.

You did brilliant, well done, super time... i can't believe you were slowing down for the pacers, how cool is that, you did sub 2hr in style

Omeceron · 15-03-2018 09:17PM

ariana` wrote: »

You did brilliant, well done, super time... i can't believe you were slowing down for the pacers, how cool is that, you did sub 2hr in style

Thanks, I was worried about going out too fast and suffering for it. I would have been perfectly happy with a 1:59:59.

Baby75 · 15-03-2018 10:16PM

Omeceron Well done and congratulations great report and great racing and exactly how I like to feel when I run in a race

Kellygirl · 15-03-2018 10:58PM

Great reading Omeceron. What happened the flip belt?? That could have tripped you up badly! Laughing at you slowing for the pacers - I’ve done it myself. So hard to know what to do early on though.

Wubble Wubble · 16-03-2018 09:58AM

Brilliant report Omeceron. Serious negative split there. A lot more improvement to follow here I suspect

ariana` · 27-03-2018 09:38AM

We're a quiet bunch lately... obviously we're all too busy running

Just giving this a bump up cos i wanted to have a gander at the plans attached.

Wubble Wubble · 27-03-2018 10:45AM

Yes indeed....two graduates gaining parkrun first places on the same day is something to be proud of, added to the PBs galore coming through in recent weeks

skyblue46 · 27-03-2018 10:45AM

ariana` wrote: »

We're a quiet bunch lately... obviously we're all too busy running

Just giving this a bump up cos i wanted to have a gander at the plans attached.

Any plan catching your eye?

Baby75 · 27-03-2018 10:48AM

All so busy running and doing great as well

it is so great to see so many doing so well all the training is paying off

ariana` · 27-03-2018 11:12AM

skyblue46 wrote: »

Any plan catching your eye?

The 5-10k is the most likely out of the Grads plans. I'm also looking at the McMillan's best 10k workout and contemplating building a plan around that. I like the idea of longer intervals. Might have to switch to miles though if i go that route :pac:

Baby75 wrote: »

All so busy running and doing great as well it is so great to see so many doing so well all the training is paying off

It's fantastic isn't it! We're all making progress in various different ways too - keeps things interesting

Huzzah! · 27-03-2018 12:41PM

ariana` wrote: »

The 5-10k is the most likely out of the Grads plans. I'm also looking at the McMillan's best 10k workout and contemplating building a plan around that. I like the idea of longer intervals. Might have to switch to miles though if i go that route :pac:

If you don't have to convert to miles, I read somewhere recently that you can still set your workouts up in miles in Garmin Connect, even if your watch is in kms, and it will automatically convert to metric once you send it to your watch. I haven't checked how well this works in practice, but it might be worth having a play around with before you make the big switch

Swashbuckler · 27-03-2018 01:38PM

Huzzah! wrote: »

If you don't have to convert to miles, I read somewhere recently that you can still set your workouts up in miles in Garmin Connect, even if your watch is in kms, and it will automatically convert to metric once you send it to your watch. I haven't checked how well this works in practice, but it might be worth having a play around with before you make the big switch

It works

skyblue46 · 27-03-2018 02:06PM

ariana` wrote: »

The 5-10k is the most likely out of the Grads plans. I'm also looking at the McMillan's best 10k workout and contemplating building a plan around that. I like the idea of longer intervals.

I've started the Grads plan without really looking too closely at it. It's actually identical to the half plan for the first 6 weeks before switching the emphasis to faster work. I'll be more flexible this time around :pac:

ariana` · 27-03-2018 02:35PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

I've started the Grads plan without really looking too closely at it. It's actually identical to the half plan for the first 6 weeks before switching the emphasis to faster work. I'll be more flexible this time around :pac:

Funnily i was looking at them and wondering was i losing my mind cos they looked the same... i obviously didn't go past the first 6 weeks :pac: I have done a few of the sessions off the early weeks (5 x 5min threshold & 6 x 3min CV) and they were no trouble. But I was missing the accumulated fatigue factor as i wasn't doing all the other runs. As it stands because i am limited in how many days i can run I'm swaying towards the McMillan - i think 1 monster session in combination with a long run and 2 easy runs might give me better gains. That's my train of thought anyhow but as always I'm open to advice or opinions?

Those McMillan sessions do look rather scary though, even starting off, 6 x 1m :eek:

Have you a target race(s) S?

skyblue46 · 27-03-2018 02:47PM

ariana` wrote: »

Funnily i was looking at them and wondering was i losing my mind cos they looked the same... i obviously didn't go past the first 6 weeks :pac: I have done a few of the sessions off the early weeks (5 x 5min threshold & 6 x 3min CV) and they were no trouble. But I was missing the accumulated fatigue factor as i wasn't doing all the other runs. As it stands because i am limited in how many days i can run I'm swaying towards the McMillan - i think 1 monster session in combination with a long run and 2 easy runs might give me better gains. That's my train of thought anyhow but as always I'm open to advice or opinions?

Those McMillan sessions do look rather scary though, even starting off, 6 x 1m :eek:

Have you a target race(s) S?

I get what you mean about having limited days. On the flip side I'll be hoping to run for at least 6 days a week so 3 of them will be very easy, 2 sessions and 1 long easy paced run. I've seen some of the plans that others are using and have a wee bit of curiosity but at the same time I see no point in switching from something that worked for me. Having the author of the plan close at hand for advice and suggestions is a massive help too. :pac:

As for races I hope to do a good few but target will be Dunshaughlin 10k in June and the St Cocas 5k a few days later if the legs permit it. I'll do Donadea 10k on Saturday week as a tempo run and I'm hoping to do the Bob Heffernan as well. I'll probably keep my eyes open too as regards any possible refixing of the MSB 5k. It takes a bit of planning as I'm only off work on less than half of all weekends between now and October. Speaking of which it's time to get my ass in gear and get to work now! :rolleyes:

ariana` · 27-03-2018 03:39PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

I get what you mean about having limited days. On the flip side I'll be hoping to run for at least 6 days a week so 3 of them will be very easy, 2 sessions and 1 long easy paced run. I've seen some of the plans that others are using and have a wee bit of curiosity but at the same time I see no point in switching from something that worked for me. Having the author of the plan close at hand for advice and suggestions is a massive help too. :pac:

As for races I hope to do a good few but target will be Dunshaughlin 10k in June and the St Cocas 5k a few days later if the legs permit it. I'll do Donadea 10k on Saturday week as a tempo run and I'm hoping to do the Bob Heffernan as well. I'll probably keep my eyes open too as regards any possible refixing of the MSB 5k. It takes a bit of planning as I'm only off work on less than half of all weekends between now and October. Speaking of which it's time to get my ass in gear and get to work now! :rolleyes:

I'd love to be able run 6 days S and if i was i'd follow those plans too but it's not viable at the moment. However this time last year i was running 3 days and getting a 4th day in occasionally, i am now consistently doing 4 and occasionally dropping in a 5th day so maybe 5 will become consistent eventually too - just for God's sake don't tell my other half my little plan

I think we're all lucky to have found this little haven. Looking forward to following your progress and seeing how those races go for you - PBs will be smashed no doubt

Swashbuckler · 27-03-2018 03:57PM

ariana` wrote: »

i think 1 monster session in combination with a long run and 2 easy runs might give me better gains. That's my train of thought anyhow but as always I'm open to advice or opinions?

Those McMillan sessions do look rather scary though, even starting off, 6 x 1m :eek:
?

I can stick my beak in and throw around opinions if you like??

I've looked at the Graduate 5k-10k plan previously. And I'm also aware of the McMillian 10k plan too.

The Graduate plan has a really good mix. The Tuesday sessions really do build up your speed massively with a very nice mix of paces, hills etc. And also a very nice mix of paces either side of your race pace. The Saturday sessions build up your strength. Again with a big variety of sessions and paces.

The McMillian plan is ok but its fairly limited in my opinion. Alternating between race pace sessions and speed sessions is ok but theres nowhere near the variety of sessions.

I guessed I'm a bit biased for two reasons - Grad plan was created by my coach. lol. But also, that type of running and variety (in the Grad plan) is what I love. I tried McMillian and it didn't give me the gains that Testosterscones plan has - possibly due to the fact that there's a little too much self tweaking in the McMillian plan. But also the lack of variety I think.

Given you will only be running four days, why not try the Grad plan and make sure you do the two key sessions and the long run, plus one other run? OFF is an option on two of the days. Maybe just drop a third Easy day. I think you would see big gains from the Grad plan to be honest - moreso than McMillian.

DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

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